Ethics of Fur

[JaneGrey]

The “majority of people in society” “find it repulsive”? Where do you get that idea? As I said, I have an old muskrat coat that I love. I’ve never had anyone say anything negative to me about wearing it, and the looks I get when I’m wearing it are anything but negative.

Maybe it is different where you live, but in my society and the people around me, catholic and others, would not want to openly admit to wearing real fur. I know of many people who have inherited old furs and the attitude to having those in possesion is different. However yes it is a taboo where i live. No one is going to throw eggs at someone who wears a fur, but there will be less than flattering comments made and glares. Im not saying its right or wrong reaction, but that is how it is. I have to say though, Iam proud of this tradition of ours. Im sure many do wear fur still however.

 

[severus68]

And you do? If so i d like to know how exactly it is that you or anyone else needs fur? Im not pretending to know what the needs and wants of strangers are, but living in an extreme temperate climate and not needing to use fur I think I know what Im talking about, thank you very much.

If you are certain you are not doing anything wrong, why so anxious about being judged by others on an internet forum? There is basis to reality, you just refuse to accept it. However, no one is forcing you to their side either.

My statement that the needless suffereing of animals is anti-Catholic derives from the CCC dear.

I wish I had the time and energy to dictate to people what I think they should do with their lives, as you imply I do. I make no secret that I think no human beings should stick to wearing their own skins they were born with. However I also said it was my opinion which I was putting out there, as I have a right to. I can only hope someone agrees with me, doesnt mean Im telling them what to do.

Causes arguments because people do not like or agree with what the other side is saying. It is not a new phenomenon. Vegans make their choice because they felt it was the right one and they have the right to inform others why. Only you can make yourself feel guilty. I have not read a single person on this thread demanding that you or anyone else give up your meat eating ways. No one is telling you what to do.

Good post.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Maybe it is different where you live, but in my society and the people around me, catholic and others, would not want to openly admit to wearing real fur. I know of many people who have inherited old furs and the attitude to having those in possesion is different. However yes it is a taboo where i live. No one is going to throw eggs at someone who wears a fur, but there will be less than flattering comments made and glares. Im not saying its right or wrong reaction, but that is how it is. I have to say though, Iam proud of this tradition of ours. Im sure many do wear fur still however.

Being rude to someone because you disagree with what they wear is not charitable.

I am 100 % Catholic. I have relatives who have fur coats. My best friend bought a fur years ago and wore it every winter. She stopped wearing it. Want to know why? Because of a series if attacks by “anti fur activists” who would throw paint on women wearing fur coats.

I have mink gloves, my friend uses mink to trim other garments, like coats, gloves etc. to sell.

There is nothing in my religious faith to prevent me from wearing a fur.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Causes arguments because people do not like or agree with what the other side is saying. It is not a new phenomenon. Vegans make their choice because they felt it was the right one and they have the right to inform others why. Only you can make yourself feel guilty. I have not read a single person on this thread demanding that you or anyone else give up your meat eating ways. No one is telling you what to do.

Good post.

But you wouldn’t let me know if my actions were objectively sinful. If you thought my soul were in peril, it would be the Christian thing to let me know.

 

[Marfran]

Good post.

But you wouldn’t let me know if my actions were objectively sinful. If you thought my soul were in peril, it would be the Christian thing to let me know.

I do not think it is a sin to *eat *or *wear *anything. However, when we become aware of a problem, an injustice, an abuse, or a cruelty that occurs in the manufacture/raising of our food or clothing, then I think that we have a responsibility to take a good look at the situation.

Last night on the news the story was about several farms (I don’t remember what state it was in), where undercover journalists went in and filmed illegal child labor. It was a blueberry farm. Children have to be 12 years old to work and they had children as young as 5 yeears old working, picking and carrying buckets. I will not be a part of this abuse of children. I will make sure that the blueberries that I buy do not come from this farm. I am going to research this story, because again, I did not catch the name of the farm or what state it was in, but I think it was a big operation.

 

[severus68]

Good post.

But you wouldn’t let me know if my actions were objectively sinful. If you thought my soul were in peril, it would be the Christian thing to let me know.

How would I know if your soul is in peril? In the same way, you would not know about me. Noon really knows the hearts and souls of peple except God.

 

[4elise]

I do not think it is a sin to *eat *or *wear *anything. However, when we become aware of a problem, an injustice, an abuse, or a cruelty that occurs in the manufacture/raising of our food or clothing, then I think that we have a responsibility to take a good look at the situation.

Last night on the news the story was about several farms (I don’t remember what state it was in), where undercover journalists went in and filmed illegal child labor. It was a blueberry farm. Children have to be 12 years old to work and they had children as young as 5 yeears old working, picking and carrying buckets. I will not be a part of this abuse of children. I will make sure that the blueberries that I buy do not come from this farm. I am going to research this story, because again, I did not catch the name of the farm or what state it was in, but I think it was a big operation.

IMHO this is EXACTLY the point - I can agree with this and would add that it would certainly have been ‘easier’ to stay uninformed - and avoid having to make what were initially difficult changes - but once learned, one can not un-learn something - then the choice is to act based on that new knowledge - or to ignore it and think that the actions of ONE doesn’t matter.

 

[4elise]

But you wouldn’t let me know if my actions were objectively sinful. If you thought my soul were in peril, it would be the Christian thing to let me know.

1. If you posted ‘I’m thinking of having an abortion’ - then yes I would do everything in my power to try to change your actions. Find you support in your area - your soul would be in peril as would the life of your child.
2. If you posted ‘I’m thinking of cheating on my spouse’ then yes I would certainly try to offer support for your marriage - suggest that you speak with a priest, a marriage councilor - your soul would be in peril as would your marriage
3. If you posted ‘I’m thinking of spending $5000 on a fur coat’ I might suggest alternatives that would cost less - and keep you warm, but would then allow you to use your resources for a ‘good cause’ - here I have no way to know your motivation, to know if your soul is in peril - this is internal, your relationship with God, your relationship with your resources - I would have no way to know if you have considered that you indeed ‘need’ this -
4. If you posted ‘I’m going to McDonalds to have a big burger’ I can offer an alternative - Amy’s burgers are great - but again - you might believe you ‘need’ the big mac - there is no way for anyone else to know the internal relationship someone else has with their resources and God

What I have concluded is that i do not need meat, dairy, eggs, fur, leather - therefore I need to avoid these - because this choice reflects my relationship with God - of course I want to share what I have learned with others because I think it matters and I think as Catholics we should always be open to growing - this how I have tried to grow.

Blessings

 

[holy_moly]

Is it ethical for modern, civilized man to raise and kill animals for their fur?

Something like 85% of the fur industry’s skins come from animals living captive in fur factory farms–is this ethical???

Nothing surpasses coyote fur on parka hoods- it doesn’t ‘frost up’ like synthetics.

 

[mmsiciliana]

I do not think it is a sin to *eat *or *wear *anything.

Then there’s your answer. If it’s not a sin to eat or wear anything, it’s ethical to eat or wear anything.

 

[JaneGrey]

Being rude to someone because you disagree with what they wear is not charitable.

Did I say it was okay to be rude? You asked me how I came to to the conclusion that most people in society find fur to be repulsive, I was showing you.

I am 100 % Catholic. I have relatives who have fur coats. My best friend bought a fur years ago and wore it every winter. She stopped wearing it. Want to know why? Because of a series if attacks by “anti fur activists” who would throw paint on women wearing fur coats.

Iam sorry for what your friend went through, and I dont think it was right what they did to her. However Im not sorry for her because she had to stop wearing her fur coats. With respect, I know of people who have had to give up more life-changing things after they were abused.

 

[4elise]

Then there’s your answer. If it’s not a sin to eat or wear anything, it’s ethical to eat or wear anything.

In Marfran’s response #621 - she did say that it is not a sin to eat or wear anything — but then she went on to explain her position - taking only that on it’s own isn’t a fair way to have a discussion… it is her comments that follow that really make sense to me - and something I try to apply to all areas of my life… as apparently she does with her story about the blueberry farm - this learning something and applying it to our life - I think this is how we try to live in the world today - we could just ignore the news and think nothing has any impact on us (or we on it) - but arent we supposed to be salt for the earth, the light on the hill?

I do not think it is a sin to eat or wear anything. However, when we become aware of a problem, an injustice, an abuse, or a cruelty that occurs in the manufacture/raising of our food or clothing, then I think that we have a responsibility to take a good look at the situation.

 

[Marfran]

I do not think it is a sin to *eat *or *wear *anything.

Then there’s your answer. If it’s not a sin to eat or wear anything, it’s ethical to eat or wear anything.

Not quite. You ignored the important part of the answer. Let me refresh:

**I do not think it is a sin to *eat ***or *wear *anything. However, when we become aware of a problem, an injustice, an abuse, or a cruelty that occurs in the manufacture/raising of our food or clothing, then I think that we have a responsibility to take a good look at the situation.

Last night on the news the story was about several farms (I don’t remember what state it was in), where undercover journalists went in and filmed illegal child labor. It was a blueberry farm. Children have to be 12 years old to work and they had children as young as 5 yeears old working, picking and carrying buckets. I will not be a part of this abuse of children. I will make sure that the blueberries that I buy do not come from this farm. I am going to research this story, because again, I did not catch the name of the farm or what state it was in, but I think it was a big operation.

And I will add that the part that you*** purposefully ***ignore is the ethical issue. Putting something into your mouth or on your back has no significance, it is neutral–the act of eating or the act of wearing. However, when you become aware of an injustice, a cruelty, a wrong commited in the manufacture of your food or clothing, I believe that you are obliged to learn about the situation and act accordingly, which may mean that you have an ethical obligation to refrain from purchasing the item in the future.

You will note that in the Bible it is stated that wine is not evil. The wine itself is neutral. It is the abuse of it by the human that is wrong. Same applies to all other food and clothing. If you are mistreating animals to obtain meat–there is the wrong, the ethical issue. If you are subjecting animals to live as captives in tiny cages, to be killed to make a luxury fur coat, when there are many compassionate alternatives available, that do not require abusing animals–then there is your issue of ethics.

To eat or wear anything is neutral in and of itself. That does not mean than you can purchase items that are the products of abuse or cruelty, and still maintain a position of neutrality and be ethically free of contributing to the abuse/cruelty.

In the case of the blueberries, let’s say that you have been purchasing these blueberries from the farm in question. You had no idea that the owners of this farm were (illegally) using children to work and harvest the blueberries. You are completely innocent (ethically) from contributing to this problem by your purchases. But now that you know of this situation, if you continue to purchase these blueberries, you ***are ***culpable and can consider that your actions do have a contributory and ethical impact.

 

[severus68]

Not quite. You ignored the important part of the answer. Let me refresh:

And I will add that the part that you*** purposefully ***ignore is the ethical issue. Putting something into your mouth or on your back has no significance, it is neutral–the act of eating or the act of wearing. However, when you become aware of an injustice, a cruelty, a wrong commited in the manufacture of your food or clothing, I believe that you are obliged to learn about the situation and act accordingly, which may mean that you have an ethical obligation to refrain from purchasing the item in the future.

You will note that in the Bible it is stated that wine is not evil. The wine itself is neutral. It is the abuse of it by the human that is wrong. Same applies to all other food and clothing. If you are mistreating animals to obtain meat–there is the wrong, the ethical issue. If you are subjecting animals to live as captives in tiny cages, to be killed to make a luxury fur coat, when there are many compassionate alternatives available, that do not require abusing animals–then there is your issue of ethics.

To eat or wear anything is neutral in and of itself. That does not mean than you can purchase items that are the products of abuse or cruelty, and still maintain a position of neutrality and be ethically free of contributing to the abuse/cruelty.

In the case of the blueberries, let’s say that you have been purchasing these blueberries from the farm in question. You had no idea that the owners of this farm were (illegally) using children to work and harvest the blueberries. You are completely innocent (ethically) from contributing to this problem by your purchases. But now that you know of this situation, if you continue to purchase these blueberries, you ***are ***culpable and can consider that your actions do have a contributory and ethical impact.

Very well explained.

 

[just_me_1]

You probably just walk with your boots. I need boots that are tough, and there’s nothing better than leather in my opinion.

exactly! I’m giggling my butt off here trying to picture farmers, ranchers, cowboys, construction workers, welders, etc. in littly shiny vinyl boots…or little cotton gloves…

 

[mmsiciliana]

Not quite. You ignored the important part of the answer. Let me refresh:

And I will add that the part that you*** purposefully ***ignore is the ethical issue. Putting something into your mouth or on your back has no significance, it is neutral–the act of eating or the act of wearing. However, when you become aware of an injustice, a cruelty, a wrong commited in the manufacture of your food or clothing, I believe that you are obliged to learn about the situation and act accordingly, which may mean that you have an ethical obligation to refrain from purchasing the item in the future.

You will note that in the Bible it is stated that wine is not evil. The wine itself is neutral. It is the abuse of it by the human that is wrong. Same applies to all other food and clothing. If you are mistreating animals to obtain meat–there is the wrong, the ethical issue. If you are subjecting animals to live as captives in tiny cages, to be killed to make a luxury fur coat, when there are many compassionate alternatives available, that do not require abusing animals–then there is your issue of ethics.

To eat or wear anything is neutral in and of itself. That does not mean than you can purchase items that are the products of abuse or cruelty, and still maintain a position of neutrality and be ethically free of contributing to the abuse/cruelty.

In the case of the blueberries, let’s say that you have been purchasing these blueberries from the farm in question. You had no idea that the owners of this farm were (illegally) using children to work and harvest the blueberries. You are completely innocent (ethically) from contributing to this problem by your purchases. But now that you know of this situation, if you continue to purchase these blueberries, you ***are ***culpable and can consider that your actions do have a contributory and ethical impact.

After you posted the story about the blueberries, I googled blueberry farm child labor. What I found is that it seems the use of child labor on blueberry farms is pretty much endemic to the industry. So, are you going to stop eating blueberries? After all, you can’t prove that child labor wasn’t used on the blueberries you are purchasing. Now you’ve become “aware” of the problem, so it would be unethical of you to continue to purchase blueberries of any kind because your actions could be contributing to the continuation of child labor. And, of course, it would be hypocritical of you to continue to choose to eat blueberries while telling me that I’m unethical.

What about anything from China? Do you boycott all items from China because of the way the adults and the children are exploited there? The only way you can be sure that anything you eat or wear was produced “ethically” is to produce it yourself. And somehow, I just don’t see that happening, since you live in Manhattan…

 

[mmsiciliana]

But you wouldn’t let me know if my actions were objectively sinful. If you thought my soul were in peril, it would be the Christian thing to let me know.

I do not think it is a sin to *eat *or *wear *anything. However, when we become aware of a problem, an injustice, an abuse, or a cruelty that occurs in the manufacture/raising of our food or clothing, then I think that we have a responsibility to take a good look at the situation.

Last night on the news the story was about several farms (I don’t remember what state it was in), where undercover journalists went in and filmed illegal child labor. It was a blueberry farm. Children have to be 12 years old to work and they had children as young as 5 yeears old working, picking and carrying buckets. I will not be a part of this abuse of children. I will make sure that the blueberries that I buy do not come from this farm. I am going to research this story, because again, I did not catch the name of the farm or what state it was in, but I think it was a big operation.

OK, once again, let’s get to the crux of the matter. Do you believe it is a sin for me to wear fur or eat meat?

 

[severus68]

After you posted the story about the blueberries, I googled blueberry farm child labor. What I found is that it seems the use of child labor on blueberry farms is pretty much endemic to the industry. So, are you going to stop eating blueberries? After all, you can’t prove that child labor wasn’t used on the blueberries you are purchasing. Now you’ve become “aware” of the problem, so it would be unethical of you to continue to purchase blueberries of any kind because your actions could be contributing to the continuation of child labor. And, of course, it would be hypocritical of you to continue to choose to eat blueberries while telling me that I’m unethical.

What about anything from China? Do you boycott all items from China because of the way the adults and the children are exploited there? The only way you can be sure that anything you eat or wear was produced “ethically” is to produce it yourself. And somehow, I just don’t see that happening, since you live in Manhattan…

Sorry for going off point but just wanted some clarification. So in the US chld labour with kids as young as 5 are used and its ok even if only in the blueberry farms?

Can’t you live in New York, such a large city and be better able to make ethical choices in your purchase choices with the variety available? I gather Marfran’s point is about knowledge and awareness. Anyway, I don’t think anyone is being personal here and directing barbs at anyone personally by giving views.

 

[4elise]

exactly! I’m giggling my butt off here trying to picture farmers, ranchers, cowboys, construction workers, welders, etc. in littly shiny vinyl boots…or little cotton gloves…

Not to appear contrary - but there are other choices than ‘little shiny vinyl boots’ that are not made from animals, including the steel toed variety:

Just a quick search came up with:
thevegetariansite.com/cgi-bin/miva?Merchant2/merchant.mv+Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=S&Category_Code=safety

 

[4elise]

After you posted the story about the blueberries, I googled blueberry farm child labor. What I found is that it seems the use of child labor on blueberry farms is pretty much endemic to the industry. So, are you going to stop eating blueberries? After all, you can’t prove that child labor wasn’t used on the blueberries you are purchasing. Now you’ve become “aware” of the problem, so it would be unethical of you to continue to purchase blueberries of any kind because your actions could be contributing to the continuation of child labor. And, of course, it would be hypocritical of you to continue to choose to eat blueberries while telling me that I’m unethical.

What about anything from China? Do you boycott all items from China because of the way the adults and the children are exploited there? The only way you can be sure that anything you eat or wear was produced “ethically” is to produce it yourself. And somehow, I just don’t see that happening, since you live in Manhattan…

I know I won’t buy blueberries after Marfran shared this - unless I had some way to know child labor isn’t involved - and I’ll be looking into this more - I don’t buy blue berries too often - maybe twice a year for muffins.

Since we are discussing a point - I go a bit further off the original OP to share how this gets raised in my mind and influences even little decisions - I was at Target yesterday getting candy for Halloween - there was a really pretty ‘fall’ tray that was only $10 — I thought for a minute - oh that would be cute to have for Thanksgiving for putting out snacks - 2 things stopped me - one flipped it over ‘made in China’ and second I really do not NEED it - I have other plates that can be used… a couple years ago I would have just picked that up because it was pretty - but I am trying to be mindful and make my choices reflect my beliefs.