Ethics of Fur

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Marfran, you are perfectly entitled to your opinion. Trouble is people like you want to oppose your opinions on others. Let me see if I can think up something that are mixed values for me that you do. If I were to say you eat animals or animal derivitives, is that different? If you are a vegan, does cutting down forests and killing off all the animals or killing off millions of rabbits with a virus, or killing billions of butterflies with your pesticides so that you can have your carrots constitute mixed values?
Cassini, you will soon learn that our glorious :bowdown:Marfran :bowdown2: is an absolute pillar of sanctity on a par with Mother Theresa. She has never done anything unethical and never will! :whistle:

Signed, the other person on this thread who was previously involved with mink farming but whom Marfran did not…repeat…did not call a “factory farm mink rancher” or even anything remotely like that because she never put my name on a post. :rotfl:
 
Is it ethical to raise animals in captivity, to have them live unnatural lives in cages, and then to kill them for their skins, so that affluent women may wear luxury fur coats? Is it ethical to do this to animals (living sentient beings), when in the year 2009, we are much advanced from the age of the caveman, and have no NEED to clothe ourselves anymore this way. We have more superior and compassionate alternatives available to us TODAY.
Is it ethical to raise animals in captivity, to have them live unnatural lives in houses, and force them to stay home alone all day while we work, so that affluent women (Marfran told us that she can well afford many fur coats if she wanted them…) may have pets? Is it ethical to do this to animals (living sentient beings), when in the year 2009, we are much advanced from the age of the caveman, and have no NEED to keep pets anymore this way. We have more superior and compassionate alternatives such as Furbys available to us TODAY.
(Oops! Just watch…Marfran will now chastise me for going off topic!) 😛
 
Comfort and beauty are wonderful, but must it come from the suffering of an innocent animal? We wouldn’t tolerate the same from dogs (no one likes Cruella Deville from 101 Dalmations), but it’s okay for another animal?
 
I assume you meant ‘impose’. How does anyone impose their opinions on anyone else?

How do vegans start or cause a virus? We vegetarians and vegans are consistent. We are also trying not to mess up the world in other ways. I am proud that I only use non chemical, non animal products fertilizers and do not use any pesticides. We buy and eat organic as much as we can.
Excuse me, Marfran, for this extremely personal question…but, Severus68, what are your shoes made of? “Non chemical”, “organic” products?
 
Is it ethical to raise animals in captivity, to have them live unnatural lives in houses, and force them to stay home alone all day while we work, so that affluent women (Marfran told us that she can well afford many fur coats if she wanted them…) may have pets? Is it ethical to do this to animals (living sentient beings), when in the year 2009, we are much advanced from the age of the caveman, and have no NEED to keep pets anymore this way. We have more superior and compassionate alternatives such as Furbys available to us TODAY.
(Oops! Just watch…Marfran will now chastise me for going off topic!) 😛
I do not understand why you insist on the ***personal ***attacks. This is against CAF rules. I understand this topic is emotional to you, but if you really want to present a solid case why don’t you try to build one.
 
is this better?
Yes. But it’s hard to respond when you type in between my text. The first question you gave a one word answer. That was 'yes." I believe you went on to explain why in the next question. I would agree that that raising the animals in captivity ***is ***better than using a steel leghold trap, however all the photos and video that have been posted do not show humane treatment. Did you see the video where the fox was anally electrocuted? It does seem that the animals have it even worse in China.
 
So then should we fly??? Jesus didn’t fly (on an airplane).
I don’t see you doing everything else Jesus did or didn’t do. Jesus cooked and ate fish that his disciples caught after Jesus told them to let down their nets on the other side of the boat. No vegan Jesus!
 
Comfort and beauty are wonderful, but must it come from the suffering of an innocent animal? We wouldn’t tolerate the same from dogs (no one likes Cruella Deville from 101 Dalmations), but it’s okay for another animal?
I like that Cruella Deville analogy!!! How appropriate!!!
 
I don’t see you doing everything else Jesus did or didn’t do. Jesus cooked and ate fish that his disciples caught after Jesus told them to let down their nets on the other side of the boat. No vegan Jesus!
Jesus told his disciples to drop their nets and to come follow him.
 
People say Jesus ate fish–so it is OK to eat fish. Jesus wore sandals–so it is OK to wear sandals (made of leather–or were they made of twine?) Jesus did not fly on an airplane–so using the same logic we should also not fly on airplanes.

My previous post refers to technological advancement. Is all technology good??? Seems we have to carefully weigh everything, and the answers are not always so easy.

P.S. I bet that Jesus did not own a mink coat!!! And I bet that Mary did not have one either.
You’re RIGHT! And they didn’t eat corn either! You know why? Because both mink and corn are indigenous to the Americas!
 
How would the observer be aware of whether it is a new mink, a faux mink, or a recycled mink, without asking the wearer??? Have you seen some of the faux furs??? There is no way of knowing without asking.
The person who knows fur can tell 99% of the time just by looking at a fur whether is real or fake. And the other 1% you can tell by feeling. Fake fur is very obviously fake. There is no way fake comes anywhere close to the real thing.
 
And they presented us with photographic evidence? Home video? We have their verified credentials??? I am not saying that they are not giving us their perspective as they see it, but can you draw a conclusion from something that an anonymous poster said??? You ignore all the photographic evidence and links to information posted on this thread in favor of anonymous posters’ personal undocumented accounts???

I have found many sources of information, from many posters, on many topics, to be of value. I appreciate all the links and thoughts and often stumble upon new information–all to the thanks of an anonymous poster. I have even read several books on differing subjects–all suggested by anonymous posters on CAF–but I won’t base an opinion on the assurance of an anonymous poster that everything is hunky dory, unless there is other substantive evidence to back it up. And I do believe that the posters that you are referring to said that they were retired, or no longer in the business. I also recall that one of the posters that you are referring to took issue with the term “factory fur farm” which would indicate that the farm in question was not a large operation.
I’m not in the business anymore. I know people who are. Do thousands mean a “large operation” to you? I object to the term “factory” farm because the animals are not all treated alike as if they were pieces of machinery in a factory to be put together. I told you that they are individually bred. They are individually fed. The new mothers are all individually checked soon after they’ve given birth and the new babies are looked at as well, and if they’re not doing well, they’re placed where they can be better taken care of. Their nest boxes are individually cleaned and fresh bedding is individually replaced in them. They are individually vaccinated against disease, etc., etc.

As for pictures, they can be faked. Do a Google search on fairy pictures.
 
Originally Posted by mmsiciliana forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
*I don’t see you doing everything else Jesus did or didn’t do. Jesus cooked and ate fish that his disciples caught after Jesus told them to let down their nets on the other side of the boat. No vegan Jesus! *
Jesus told his disciples to drop their nets and to come follow him.
When it was already dawn, Jesus was standing on the shore; but the disciples did not realize that it was Jesus. Jesus said to them, “Children, have you caught anything to eat?” They answered him, “No.” So he said to them, “Cast the net over the right side of the boat and you will find something.” So they cast it, and were not able to pull it in because of the number of fish. So the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, “It is the Lord.” When Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he tucked in his garment, for he was lightly clad, and jumped into the sea. The other disciples came in the boat, for they were not far from shore, only about a hundred yards, dragging the net with the fish. When they climbed out on shore, they saw a charcoal fire with fish on it and bread. Jesus said to them, "Bring some of the fish you just caught. So Simon Peter went over and dragged the net ashore full of one hundred fifty-three large fish. Even though there were so many, the net was not torn. Jesus said to them, “Come, have breakfast.” And none of the disciples dared to ask him, “Who are you?” because they realized it was the Lord. Jesus came over and took the bread and gave it to them, and in like manner the fish. This was now the third time Jesus was revealed to his disciples after being raised from the dead.
John 21:4-14
 
The person who knows fur can tell 99% of the time just by looking at a fur whether is real or fake. And the other 1% you can tell by feeling. Fake fur is very obviously fake. There is no way fake comes anywhere close to the real thing.
$225.00 for a faux mink vest from Neiman Marcus. I bet N. Marcus does a good job with the faux. neimanmarcus.com/store/catalog/prod.jhtml?itemId=prod93480033&eItemId=prod93480033&cmCat=search&searchType=MAIN&parentId=&icid=&rte=%252Fsearch.jhtml%253FN%253D0%2526Ntt%253Dfaux%252Bmink%2526_requestid%253D23965
 
Originally Posted by mmsiciliana forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
*I don’t see you doing everything else Jesus did or didn’t do. Jesus cooked and ate fish that his disciples caught after Jesus told them to let down their nets on the other side of the boat. No vegan Jesus! *

When it was already dawn, Jesus was standing on the shore; but the disciples did not realize that it was Jesus. Jesus said to them, “Children, have you caught anything to eat?” They answered him, “No.” So he said to them, “Cast the net over the right side of the boat and you will find something.” So they cast it, and were not able to pull it in because of the number of fish. So the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, “It is the Lord.” When Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he tucked in his garment, for he was lightly clad, and jumped into the sea. The other disciples came in the boat, for they were not far from shore, only about a hundred yards, dragging the net with the fish. When they climbed out on shore, they saw a charcoal fire with fish on it and bread. Jesus said to them, "Bring some of the fish you just caught. So Simon Peter went over and dragged the net ashore full of one hundred fifty-three large fish. Even though there were so many, the net was not torn. Jesus said to them, “Come, have breakfast.” And none of the disciples dared to ask him, “Who are you?” because they realized it was the Lord. Jesus came over and took the bread and gave it to them, and in like manner the fish. This was now the third time Jesus was revealed to his disciples after being raised from the dead.
John 21:4-14
You are right!!! Jesus didn’t actually EAT any fish!!! Thanks for this post!
 
Is it ethical to raise animals in captivity, to have them live unnatural lives in houses, and force them to stay home alone all day while we work, so that affluent women (Marfran told us that she can well afford many fur coats if she wanted them…) may have pets? Is it ethical to do this to animals (living sentient beings), when in the year 2009, we are much advanced from the age of the caveman, and have no NEED to keep pets anymore this way. We have more superior and compassionate alternatives such as Furbys available to us TODAY.
The cost of a mink fur coat is roughly equal to the cost of one year of parochial high school. I have several kids in parochial high school and feel that investing in a Catholic education for my children is a much better investment than spending that same money for the vanity of a fur coat.
 
Excuse me, Marfran, for this extremely personal question…but, Severus68, what are your shoes made of? “Non chemical”, “organic” products?
I wear these cheap, soft cloth sandals.Have had them for years, Wear them come rain or shine. Why all these personal questions. I would not presume to do the same.
 
I keep my two dogs and one cat outside 100% of the time, rain, snow or shine. I feed them, but that’s about it. They usually live a long time and die suddenly. Maybe I’m cruel, but I don’t think so.

I sometimes visit people who, with the best of intentions, have dogs in a little back yard, tied or fenced, or in a house. They can’t roam free or chase squirrels or drink rainwater or play in the snow or mark out a big territory and guard it or do any of the things dogs seem to want to do. I have seen cats that don’t have claws and don’t get to go catch rodents or birds.

When the well-kept pets get old and get arthritis or hip joint problems or cancer or whatever, people will take them to vets to put them down. The vet injects the animal first with an anaesthetic, and then with a drug that stops respiration.

I’m not entirely sure the fur farms are a bit more cruel than the people who keep pets in their houses or their small yards. I don’t think either one is cruel.
I hope your dogs have adequate shelter. My dogs all are in at night, run on grass and are very happy. I live in a city. My cats have their claws. My animals do want they want, still love me and my dogs protect me.
 
You are right!!! Jesus didn’t actually EAT any fish!!! Thanks for this post!
It says that he told his followers how and where to catch so many fish that their nets could have been torn, and that he was cooking fish on a fire when they came to shore and that he told them to bring some of the fish they just caught and to have breakfast with him.

Oh, and you want proof from the Bible that he ate fish? Why didn’t you say so?

While they were still incredulous for joy and were amazed, he asked them, “Have you anything here to eat?” They gave him a piece of baked fish; he took it and ate it in front of them.
Luke 24: 41-43

Yep, no vegan Jesus!
 
I wear these cheap, soft cloth sandals.Have had them for years, Wear them come rain or shine. Why all these personal questions. I would not presume to do the same.
Really? The soles of your sandals are cloth? Where do you get them? What do you do when it’s raining or snowing?
 
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