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DPMartin
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Is there ethics and politics in the Kingdom of God?
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tonyrey
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Why would they be necessary? 
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fhansen
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There’s love in the Kingdom of God. Everything is governed by that reality.
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hazcompat
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No
peace
peace
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DPMartin
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tonyreyWhy would they be necessary?
thanks for the reply
Since you must have Faith (trust) to please God, trust in what? To trust, entrust and be intrusted successfully is the key to acting ethically. Wasn’t Peter entrusted? Doesn’t it please God the Father to see us do, according to His Will. Which requires us to Trust Him, or we would not do.
Also wasn’t King Saul entrusted, and when Saul was questioned on the matter of giving booty to the Israelites. Was he ethical with what he was entrusted with? When he insisted because he had authority to make that decision, and insisted that it was good for his own reasons and did not admit he was in error and did not ask how it could be corrected. King David, on the other hand, would not take action without the Lord’s approval and if he was found in error admitted so and repented thereof. Being entrusted, trusting the Truth of God, the Word of God, more so then his own judgements and authority as King. It seemed that Saul thought to keep the throne, unto himself and his. David recognized the he was entrust with what is the Lord’s.
If you are born into the Kingdom of God, and the Kingdom is the Lord’s, are you entrust with?
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DPMartin
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Love of what? You can’t love nothing, something has to be the result of Love.
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DPMartin
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hazcompat
thanks for the reply
Who’s Peace, and Peace with what?
The Kingdom of God is at hand, therefore His will be done in earth as it is in Heaven. If you know not the Kingdom and how things are done according to God’s Will done in Heaven, then how can you know God’s Will now while you are in the earth?
(from the Burgh, go Steelers)
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fhansen
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Love of God, of course.
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GratefulFred
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If we agree that the Kingdom of God is Heaven, there is no need for ethics and politics in Heaven.
This is so, because we are then in the presence of God Himself, free from any sin and free from the ability to sin. The total 100% object of our capacity to Love completely is God because we are in His presence for all eternity in the communion of all Saints.
And THAT surely beats eternal Hell by all measures.
And THAT is why I thank Jesus Christ daily for the eternal salvation He won for us. The Hope of eternal Heaven motivates me to do my best to live THIS life according to Christ’s expectations so that I do not end up rejecting His offer of eternal Heaven.
This is so, because we are then in the presence of God Himself, free from any sin and free from the ability to sin. The total 100% object of our capacity to Love completely is God because we are in His presence for all eternity in the communion of all Saints.
And THAT surely beats eternal Hell by all measures.
And THAT is why I thank Jesus Christ daily for the eternal salvation He won for us. The Hope of eternal Heaven motivates me to do my best to live THIS life according to Christ’s expectations so that I do not end up rejecting His offer of eternal Heaven.
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DPMartin
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fhansen
thanks for the reply
If you love to be with Him now, then you will love to be with Him later. If you don’t love to be with Him now, then you will not love to be with Him later. And where is the Lord our God? Isn’t He in Heaven? The Apostles loved to be with Him, and that same relationship has been given through His Word in His Spirit.
1John:1:3: That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4: And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
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fhansen
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So this is nothing new. What’s the point and how does your reply relate to the OP?
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DPMartin
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GratefulFred
thanks for the reply
Seems we are a little perturbed at the choices of others. Reconciliation in the Lord is not with the angry and hostile my friend.
There has to be a Way of Peace that is of God and there has to be a Way of Righteousness that is of God. And it can be known, Now, or He would not tell to follow His who is the Peace of God to mankind and the Righteousness of God. And no I do not agree with the statement “there is no need for ethics and politics in Heaven.”
Politics: 2. Characterized by policy; of persons, Apt at pursuing a policy; sagacious, prudent, shrewd; of actions or things, Judicious, expedient, skilfully contrived. a. In political or public affairs.
Are you saying that the Lord God does not do this with His People? Didn’t Jesus tell us that Now is our time?
You actually believe that the Way’s of the Lord, His Statutes and Principles that He has clearly stated are His, have nothing to do with these concepts?
Ethic:
- Of an author or literary work: Treating of moral questions, and of ethics as a science
- In narrower sense, with some qualifying word or phrase: a. The moral principles or system of a particular leader or school of thought.
c. The rules of conduct recognized in certain associations or departments of human life.
- In wider sense: The whole field of moral science, including besides Ethics properly so called, the science of law whether civil, political, or international.
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DPMartin
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fhansen
thanks for the reply
If that’s your insistence then, is there ethics and politics in the Kingdom of God? Of which you have not considered in response, nor addressed.
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fhansen
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Of course I did. Love is the fulfillment of the Law. If I love I don’t need to be conscious of ethics-it’s already done, because I’ll have no desire to be unethical. When all is consummated, because all of creation is in alignment with Gods will, the old has totally passed away and the new has come. What need is there for politics when God is king?
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GratefulFred
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I see Heaven, Earth, and Hell as 3 separate places.
Here on Earth we do need Ethics and Politics. The absolute best, and best by far, are the teachings of Jesus Christ. But we live in a world where many do not know Christ, and some ignore Him, and some reject Him. So we tend to see Ethics and Politics as a secular paradyme devoid of outward reference to God or His Son Jesus Christ. See what the New York Legislature passed yesterday.
Those in Heaven have exercised their free will in making ethical and political choices well enough in agreement with the teachings of Christ and have made retribution for whatever sins they committed while on earth.
Thus, in HEAVEN we are totally free from any danger of making bad choices and thus we no longer need ethics and politics as we knew them while on earth.
It is impossible to think or do any wrong in the immediate presence of God. That is our reward.
Caveat: This is my personal understanding. I am not well schooled in the matter. Perhaps others could confirm or correct and cite authority.
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DPMartin
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fhansen
Thanks very much for your reply, it is good to see that knowledge and understanding is still in the Church.
There is no disagreement in what you say. Just as faith and hope is not required when what is hoped for is fulfilled. Like the athlete, that presses for the prize, in faith and hope. Once the athlete receives the trophy it is done it is finished it is complete. No faith and hope required, after the experience of fulfillment.
But isn’t faith and hope required now? In the Faith and Hope of fulfillment in Christ.
Lk:17:20: And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, **behold, the kingdom of God is within you. **
Could it be that pressing for the fulfillment of the Kingdom of God in the earth is now? Didn’t Jesus say our time is now? If Faith and Hope are required now, then why not ethics and politics?
Jer:9:24: But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.
Do these things “lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness” require the ethical, that agree to the Truth of God, to participate therein?
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DPMartin
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GratefulFred
thanks for the reply
Well then, what is left into the hands of pagans will have pagan results. What is left in the hands of the wicked will have the result of wickedness. What in the hands of the righteous, and the upright and the ethical, will have the results that are righteous, upright and ethical. Imputing error on others is not the job of the Church (though it does it all the time). No more then it is wise to be a armchair quarterback. How is it ethical to detest the result of what you have no involvement in? If the Gov. Is left into the hands of the secular by the Church, then how can the Church expect anything other then a secular result?
What are you going to do, accuse the blind of stumbling? Or cures those who cannot, or do not hear the Word of God?
Lev:19:14: Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
The Lord did not impute error, though He has the right to, He gave sight to the blind and hearing to the deaf. In Truth and Spirit who is full of Grace. Consider the perfect One and how much Grace He had to be amongst us.
1King:19:9: And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?
Did the Lord tell Elijah to go to the cave? And did the Lord tell him to stay there?
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fhansen
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I think I see what you’re getting at now. And yes, in this life we must still be cognizant of the need for ethics and politics-as we must persevere in faith, hope, and the pursuit of holiness in general. We must strive for the Kingdom of God now-that His will be done on earth as it is in heaven, even knowing that evil will never be totally overcome until the second advent and the end-when He finally does away with evil altogether.
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GratefulFred
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From the Encyclopedia on this website:
*The kingdom of God means, then, the ruling of God in our hearts; *
it means those principles which separate us off from the kingdom of the world and the devil;
*it means the benign sway of grace; *
*it means the Church as that Divine institution whereby we may make sure of attaining the spirit of Christ *
and so win that ultimate kingdom of God where He reigns without end in "the holy city, the New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven.
To the degree that one sees “ethics and politics” as other than God’s Principles for ruling in our hearts, and to the degree that sees "ethics and politics’ as being a part of the kingdom of the world, then I would say that “ethics and politics” are NOT in the Kingdom of God.
To the degree that “ethics and politics” are clearly related to the Principles of God, then that portion of “ethics and politics” are in the Kingdom of God.
But the problem I see is that most people are trying to replace God’s Principles with their own version of “ethics and politics.” A moral relativism that is dangerous becasue it attempts to push God out of the equation of “How shall we live?”
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DPMartin
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fhansen
thanks for the reply
All I could say to that is, Amen!
Maybe it could be said that we should participate in the world, without letting the world participate in us. As a Church, as a People of God. If you notice, the Lord God never removed Israel from the world, some have tried, but that ain’t going to happen. He removed them from their land, but not the world.
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