K
kalt
Guest
I’ve seen articles about the Ethiopian Coptic Rite and the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, one saying that the latter is also sometimes called Coptic. Are these two names for the same church? If not, are both under the Pope?
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A
Alexios
Guest
There is an Ethiopian Catholic Church in communion with Rome, and then there is the Ethiopian Orthodox Church (which is NOT Eastern Orthodox, but Oriental Orthodox) which is not in communion with the Pope.
There are also the Coptic Churches of Egypt, which are similar to the Ethiopian Churches, but not identical. There is, naturally, an Ethiopian Catholic Church in communion with Rome, and an Ethiopian Orthodox Church which, just like the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, is Oriental and NOT Eastern Orthodox or in any way part of the Eastern Orthodox Communion of Churches.
There are also the Coptic Churches of Egypt, which are similar to the Ethiopian Churches, but not identical. There is, naturally, an Ethiopian Catholic Church in communion with Rome, and an Ethiopian Orthodox Church which, just like the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, is Oriental and NOT Eastern Orthodox or in any way part of the Eastern Orthodox Communion of Churches.
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bpbasilphx
Guest
When I was in Dallas, many Ethiopians came to St. Seraphim’s OCA cathedral because there was no Ethiopian Orthodox Church.
One thing i learned very quickly–NEVER call an Ethiopian a Copt!
One thing i learned very quickly–NEVER call an Ethiopian a Copt!
K
kalt
Guest
This is what EWTN has on the Ethiopian Catholic Church.
"ALEXANDRIAN FAMILY OF LITURGICAL RITES
The Church of Alexandria in Egypt was one of the original centers of Christianity, since like Rome and Antioch it had a large Jewish population which was the initial object of apostolic evangelization. Its Liturgy is attributed to St. Mark the Evangelist, and shows the later influence of the Byzantine Liturgy, in addition to its unique elements.
• Coptic – Egyptian Catholics who returned to communion with Rome in 1741. The Patriarch of Alexandria leads the 200,000 faithful of this ritual Church spread throughout Egypt and the Near East. The liturgical languages are Coptic (Egyptian) and Arabic. Most Copts are not Catholics.
• Ethiopian/Abyssinian – Ethiopian Coptic Christians who returned to Rome in 1846. The liturgical language is Geez. The 200,000 faithful are found in Ethiopia, Eritrea, Somalia, and Jerusalem."
???
Can someone sort this out for me?
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Antonin
Guest
Ethiopian Coptic Church is not the same as Eastern Orthodox. Take it from an “older” man who has been a lifelong member of the Orthodox Church. Rather than what branch of what organization one belongs to, what is important is what is in one’s heart. Faith in Jesus Christ and following the rule that tells us to love God and thus treat one anther with kindness is the true “Christian Identity”
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kalt
Guest
But I’m asking about the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, not the Eastern Orthodox Church.
This is the original question.
“I’ve seen articles about the Ethiopian Coptic Rite and the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, one saying that the latter is also sometimes called Coptic. Are these two names for the same church? If not, are both under the Pope?”
F
Formosus
Guest
The Ethiopian tradition stems out of the coptic one to my understanding, but they are really their own branch now.
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Byzcat
Guest
I am now actually more confused about this than when I opened this thread.
Now, which sect is it that has the Ark of the Covenant in a monastery on an island in a lake?
thersafroginaholeinaloginthebottomofthelake…
Now, which sect is it that has the Ark of the Covenant in a monastery on an island in a lake?
thersafroginaholeinaloginthebottomofthelake…
V
veritashunter
Guest
Dear Byzcat:
It is not on an island in a lake in a monastery…That is to say “not anymore”.
It is rumored to have been kept in the monastery in the far past. It is now rumored to be kept in a small chapel in Ethiopia under the stewardship of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church tended by a single Ethiopian Orthodox monk.
The Ark may truly rest there but there is no proof as they have refused to let anyone view the Ark. It is also tradition that each Ethiopian Orthodox Church has within it a duplicate of the Ark of the Covenant.
There is a native group of Orthodox Jews (black African Jews) that also exist in this area Ethiopia who follow all of the old traditions and even still make animal and cereal sacrifices for their sins as prescribed in The Law. Their “Hebrew paternity” as authentic simetic Jews has been proven through genetic/DNA examination. Israeli religious authorities had previously refuted their claims to the purity of their ancestry and refused to acknowlege them as truly Jewish. What is sort of poetic justice is that the Ethiopian Jews have been discovered to possess a stronger Simitic bloodline (genetically) than most of the Israelis.
With this in mind people shouldn’t be surprised at the reverence the Ethiopian Orthodox show to the idea of the Ark of the Covenant (the Old Covenant) and its relation to Mary (the Ark of the New Covenant/the Ark of the Christ), the Ark of the New Covenant.
No one can say whether the Ark in Chapel is or is not the real Ark.
The Ethiopian Orthodox Church is not in union with Rome. The Ethiopian Catholic Church is in communion with Rome.
The Coptic Orthodox are not in communion with Rome (although they are moving ever closer toward reunion) while the Coptic Catholic Church is in communion with Rome.
The Ethiopian Orthodox have their own Patriarch ever since established by Pope Cyril VI, Coptic Orthodox Pope (in Alexandria) and Patriarch of Africa. The Ethiopian Orthodox Church is an Oriental church that was formerly part of the Coptic Orthodox Church until 1959.
Its status as an Oriental Orthodox Church also means that their Scriptural Canon does not match that of the later Church Councils. They have more Old Testament books than that of the Catholic and Byzantine Orthodox Church. They are also pre-Chalcedon entities (Christotokos vs Theotokos controversy).
But the Coptic Orthodox and the Ethiopian Coptic Orthodox are now distinctly separate entities (sister Oriental churches).
I hope this finally answered your questions and did not cause more confusion.
Yours in Christ,
Veritashunter
F
Formosus
Guest
I beleive the Christokos Vs. Theotokos was settled at the Council of Ephesus . The Oriental Orthodox broke off after the Council of Calcedon because they disagreed with Christ having two natures and they beleived that Christ only had one nature (the nature of the Incarnate Word).
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ASimpleSinner
Guest
The Ethiopians Church. They are in communion with the Copts, but not part of the same “particular Church” in the same way the Russian Church and Greek Church are both Orthodox and are part of the same communion of Churches, but not one single church.
Except in a supernatural sense, there is no ONE single unified “Orthodox Church” - there are multiple self governing churches in full communion.
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veritashunter
Guest
You are correct about the Council. But that lead to the issue of Theotokos (Mother of God) vs Christotokos (Mother of Christ) due to the distinction in natures.
This was later resolved in that it was more a consequence of mistranslated language than theology. In fact, I was discussing this with a Coptic Orthodox priest just this afternoon in person. Sadly, that was not the primary reason for our conversation. It was merely the by-product of a very sad one.
In Seven Hills, OH (near Cleveland) St. Mark Coptic Orthodox Church has suffered the tragic loss of an innocent young man only 19 years old shot at the hands of 2 other men. It has really been devasting on their parish at the loss of such a great kid with so much potential.
Please keep their congregation and families in your prayers in this most trying time.
Yours in Christ,
Veritashunter
T
Thepeug
Guest
Eternal memory.
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Byzcat
Guest
Thanks. That clears up some confusion for me.
I’ve heard about these folks. I saw a documentary about them, I think it was “Digging for the Truth” on the History Channel.
Makes me want to go live in Ethiopia. God must really like the Ethiopians.
Yeah, it helps a lot.
J
Jovinovi
Guest
The Ethiopian Orthdox Church was on its own. Later around 1624, Emperor Susniyos, the then emperor of Ethiopia made a formal submission to the Pope of Rome. Rome appointed a Jesuit Priest as patriarch of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. Catholicism thus became the official religion of Ethiopia. The compulsory substitution of Ge’ez (Please note Ge’ez was the official language of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church) with Latin (the official language of the Catholic Church Hence, the term Latin rites for Catholics and Ge’ez Rites for Ethiopian Orthodox) brought about rebellion and bloodshed and 8 years later (1632), Emperor Susniyos gave up his throne in order to save the empire. His son Fasiledes (later to be made Saint of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church) took up the throne. He then expelled the Jesuits in 1633. In 1665, He ordered all Jesuit books to be burnt.
My personal opinion. The unbending nature and hardheadedness of our religious leaders, failing to realize that the difference in language was unimportant, lead to the break up of this beautiful union. Both churches share a similar doctrine. The order of mass is similar. The church should have accepted the minor difference and accepted Ge’ez as an official language of the church as it has done with other cultures such as the Byzantine Rite.
My personal opinion. The unbending nature and hardheadedness of our religious leaders, failing to realize that the difference in language was unimportant, lead to the break up of this beautiful union. Both churches share a similar doctrine. The order of mass is similar. The church should have accepted the minor difference and accepted Ge’ez as an official language of the church as it has done with other cultures such as the Byzantine Rite.
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