Ethiopian Orthodox and the Immaculate Conception

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Bishop Matthias in the United States in (2004) took action against a well Educated Ethiopian priest who rejected the “Immaculate Conception” as a catholic dogma it was rejected by all orthodox in 1854, the orthodox churches in Kansas city Russia, Serbia, Greece, Armenia, and Coptic they stand with the Ethiopian priest us he rejected the Immaculate Conception as a catholic dogma. The parishioners have appealed to the Ethiopian orthodox Tewahedo church Synod back home in Addis Ababa but for the last 5 years no respond so the parishioners appealed to the oriental sister church His Holiness Pope Shenouda III of the Coptic Orthodox Church. Pope Shenouda rejected the Immaculate Conception in his book on the Holy Mother of God and further more His Grace Bishop David, General Bishop and Patriarchal Exarch in Cedar Grove, New Jersey, Archdiocese of North America. Send a latter confirming the orthodox believes see the link below. They send HG Bishop Makarius, General Bishop, he come to Kansas City August 15, 2009 at St Mark Coptic Orthodox Church to teach & explain the Coptic Orthodox Church understanding and believe on the Immaculate Conception as a catholic dogma.

medhanialemeotcks.org/pdf/HG%20Bisop_David-Letter.pdf
medhanialemeotcks.org/pdf/Letter_to_HH%20Shenouda.pdf
 
Bishop Matthias in the United States in (2004) took action against a well Educated Ethiopian priest who rejected the “Immaculate Conception” as a catholic dogma it was rejected by all orthodox in 1854, the orthodox churches in Kansas city Russia, Serbia, Greece, Armenia, and Coptic they stand with the Ethiopian priest us he rejected the Immaculate Conception as a catholic dogma. The parishioners have appealed to the Ethiopian orthodox Tewahedo church Synod back home in Addis Ababa but for the last 5 years no respond so the parishioners appealed to the oriental sister church His Holiness Pope Shenouda III of the Coptic Orthodox Church. Pope Shenouda rejected the Immaculate Conception in his book on the Holy Mother of God and further more His Grace Bishop David, General Bishop and Patriarchal Exarch in Cedar Grove, New Jersey, Archdiocese of North America. Send a latter confirming the orthodox believes see the link below. They send HG Bishop Makarius, General Bishop, he come to Kansas City August 15, 2009 at St Mark Coptic Orthodox Church to teach & explain the Coptic Orthodox Church understanding and believe on the Immaculate Conception as a catholic dogma.

medhanialemeotcks.org/pdf/HG%20Bisop_David-Letter.pdf
medhanialemeotcks.org/pdf/Letter_to_HH%20Shenouda.pdf
Thank you for posting this. I was going to post these links today. 👍

In Christ,
Andrew
 
We believe the first man created by God to have fallen in Paradise, when, disregarding the Divine commandment, he yielded to the deceitful counsel of the serpent. And hence hereditary sin flowed to his posterity; so that none is born after the flesh who beareth not this burden, and experienceth not the fruits thereof in this present world. But by these <119> fruits and this burden we do not understand [actual] sin, such as impiety, blasphemy, murder, sodomy, adultery, fornication, enmity, and whatsoever else** is by our depraved choice committed contrarily to the Divine Will, not from nature**; for many both of the Forefathers and of the Prophets, and vast numbers of others, as well of those under the shadow [of the Law], as under the truth [of the Gospel], such as the divine Precursor, {St. John the Baptist ELC} and especially the Mother of God the Word, the ever-virgin Mary, experienced not these, or such like faults; but only what the Divine Justice inflicted upon man as a punishment for the [original] transgression, such as sweats in labour, afflictions, bodily sicknesses, pains in child-bearing, and, in fine {in summation ELC}, while on our pilgrimage, to live a laborious life, and lastly, bodily death.
As the Synod of Jerusalem is held as a Pan-Orthodox council I thought it may be relevant to the discussion about the IC. As you can see, the Eastern Orthodox Churches seem fine with saying that Mary was conceived without sin, yet the Synod fathers would contend that so is everyone.
 
Please name the council that involved All Orthodox, that rejected the Immaculate Conception.
Most Orthodox reject the dogma of the Immaculate Conception as unnecessary. Because Orthodoxy does not see ancestral sin as an inheritance of guilt or a stain, there is no reason for the miraculous removal of either. Nonetheless, Orthodox tradition does hold that the Theotokos remained free of personal sin, a belief shared with some reformers such as Martin Luther.

St. Augustine & Original Sin - a typical Orthodox perspective, by Fr. John Matusiak
The Immaculate Conception: The Holiness of the Mother of God in East and West - Dr. Alexander Roman (Ukrainian Orthodox Church)
The Immaculate Conception: A Question - response by Dr. Roman
What do the Orthodox believe about the “Immaculate Conception”?
On the Immaculate Conception, by Patriarch Bartholomew I (Archontonis) of Constantinople
Zeal Not According to Knowledge - The view of St. John of Shanghai on the issue.
On the occasion of the 150th anniversary of the dogma’s proclamation, a general objection by Derek Power (User:Fedya911)
From modern Orthodox theologians
“Like other human beings, such as St John the Baptist, whose conception and birth are festivals of the Church, the Holy Virgin was born under the law of original sin, sharing with all other human beings their common responsibility for the fall.” Vladimir Lossky, “Panagia,” in E. L. Mascall, ed., The Mother of God: A Symposium by Members of the Fellowship of St Alban and St Sergius. Westminster: Dacre Press, 1959. Page 31.
“The Orthodox church does not accept the Catholic dogma of 1854 – the dogma of the immaculate conception of the Virgin, in the sense that she was exempt at birth from original sin. This would separate her from the human race, and she would then have been unable to transmit to her Son humanity. But Orthodoxy does not admit in the all-pure Virgin any individual sin, for that would be unworthy of the dignity of the Mother of God.” Sergius Bulgakov, The Orthodox Church. Crestwood: St Vladimir’s Seminary Press, 1997.
“I do not see any irresoluble conflict between the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception and the full humanity and freedom of Mary as of the same race as Eve.” - alleged to Vladimir Lossky but not verified.
Relevant quotations from the Fathers
“…being Himself at once God and man, His flesh and soul were and are holy - and beyond holy. God is holy, just as He was and is and shall be, and the Virgin is immaculate, without spot or stain, and so, too, was that rib which was taken from Adam. However the rest of humanity, even though they are His brothers and kin according to the flesh, yet remained even as they were, of dust, and did not immediately become holy and sons of God.”
  • St. Symeon the New Theologian, Discourse XIII in On the Mystical Life, vol. 2, trans. Alexander Golitzin (SVS Press, 1996)
 
Most Orthodox reject the dogma of the Immaculate Conception as unnecessary. Because Orthodoxy does not see ancestral sin as an inheritance of guilt or a stain, there is no reason for the miraculous removal of either. Nonetheless, Orthodox tradition does hold that the Theotokos remained free of personal sin, a belief shared with some reformers such as Martin Luther.
It’s not clear from this post that you understand the Latin teaching of Original Sin. The issue is not Personal Guilt, which is not passed on to anyone, but rather Grace.

Do you believe that Mary received special Grace from the first moment of her conception? Yes or no?

Peace and God bless!
 
The Following is an answer given in response to the same quesiton posed oh several months ago to me by a member of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church. By Abba Yohannes Selassie
orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,23741.0.html

Different interpretations
Not withstanding various Bible translations, in subsequent generations, discern the real differences between those calling her, “Blessed.” Some have over-emphasized philosophical logic, irrational competitive name calling, and those maintaining balanced theology regarding the mysteries of our salvation. Some, using poetic imagery, have gotten as carried away with their own effort, as others who have tried to explain away every miracles. Yet, any attempt to add to, or diminish “the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints;.“ (Jude 1:3) threatens that balance enjoined by 1John 4:3 and 2John 1:7, thereby, ultimately, denying the basis of our salvation.

Latin Roman interpretation
The history of the Latin Roman Churches interpretation began with the writings of Augustine of Hippo. “In Augustine’s view (termed “Realism”), all of humanity was really present in Adam when he sinned, and therefore all have sinned. Original sin, according to Augustine, consists of the guilt of Adam which all human beings inherit. As sinners, human beings are utterly depraved in nature, lack the freedom to do good, and cannot respond to the will of God without divine grace. Grace is irresistible, results in conversion, and leads to perseverance.” (www.wikipedia.org/wiki/original_sin.)

That position, inspired Anselm of Canterbury’s doctrine of “Substitutional atonement.” Anselm’s explanation reinforced the notion of inherited guilt, as a consequence of “original sin.” Eventually, this line of reasoning caused a controversy, lasting almost eight centuries. In 1854, the papal doctrine of “The Immaculate Conception” was proclaimed to resolve that controversy. While virtually all Protestant and Reformed thinkers reject this notion, they seem to fail to perceive and reject the underlying concepts upon which it was based.

Eastern and Oriental Orthodox interpretation

Preferring either “Ancestral sin,” or “Original stain,” to “Original sin,” both the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Churches reject the Roman concept of inherited guilt. Therefore, they describe the Holy Virgin Mariam as being fully human. Conceived by Joachim and Hannah. (see chapters 4 & 5 at theworkofgod.org/Aparitns/PevglJms.htm#THE PROTEVANGELIUM OF JAMES She was conceived with that weakness that all of us have inherited from Adam and Eve. Even though she did not personally commit any sin, she was freed from all stain, when the Archangel Gabriel announced God’s will for her. (Luke 1:35)

Many Old Testament types and prophecies are wonderfully reviewed in the Ethiopian Anaphora of our Lady by St. Hyracos Bishop of Behnesa, Egypt, and the collection of prayers in the popular piety known as Widasse Mariam, attributed to St. Isaac the Syrian. Although, we shall not, now, go into such detail; we highly recommend these sources for increasing one’s spiritual discernment on the topic. Below, we shall briefly summarize our response to your question.

Conclusion of response

Any doctrine which describes the Virgin Mariam as either more or less that truly human, undercuts her authentic role in our salvation initiated by her Son, Jesus Christ. We rightly call her “The God-bearer,” because He Who was born of her, was conceived in her womb, by the Power of the Most High, when the Holy Spirit overshadowed her. We rightly revere her as His Mother, because she alone was responsible for the humanity of Him Who described Himself as, “the son of man.”

Orthodox Christians believe, although she did not personally commit any sin, St. Mariam was born with the same stain that each of us has received from Adam and Eve. From her infancy, she was guided to develop that attitude that habitually responds saying, “Here I am, the Lord’s servant. Be it done unto me according to your word.” At the Annunciation, by the Angel Gabriel, she was purified, by divine grace, to be able to bear the Son of God. By annually commemorating her physical death, we affirm her humanity. When we celebrate the Message of St. Gabriel, we recall how God miraculously transformed her to become the second Eve, the mother of all who repent to find everlasting life in the body of Christ, her Son.
 
sigh more post modern polemics with mis-characterizations. It continues to amaze me that people would deny something thats part of their tradition, just to ‘spite’ Rome as it were.
 
The history of the Latin Roman Churches interpretation began with the writings of Augustine of Hippo. “In Augustine’s view (termed “Realism”), all of humanity was really present in Adam when he sinned, and therefore all have sinned. Original sin, according to Augustine, consists of the guilt of Adam which all human beings inherit. As sinners, human beings are utterly depraved in nature, lack the freedom to do good, and cannot respond to the will of God without divine grace. Grace is irresistible, results in conversion, and leads to perseverance.” ([www.wikipedia.org/wiki/original_sin)](http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/original_sin).)
The problem is that this is neither the teaching of St. Augustine, nor of the Catholic Church. It is not Catholic teaching that “all are guilty” of Adam’s sin.

As I thought, you are basing this on a false understanding of Catholic teaching on Original Sin.

Again, the real question is this: do you believe that Mary was specially Graced from the moment of her conception? Please answer this time.

Peace and God bless!
 
Ghosty, if that is all the Immaculate conception is, then I think an Easterner could easily agree with it, but then one has to ask. Why bother assigning it as Dogma of faith? I doubt any Eastern would say that Mary was the only one specially graced by God from conception. I would say everyone is specially graced by God at conception. So there must be more to the doctrine unless the difference is that the latin church doesn’t beleive that people receive God’s grace before birth, or that the world was graceless before Christ.
 
I doubt any Eastern would say that Mary was the only one specially graced by God from conception. I would say everyone is specially graced by God at conception.
If everyone is specially Graced, then it’s not specially Graced. 😛

The point is that Mary was specially Graced, as the Byzantine Fathers, at least, attested. This would not be a Grace that belongs to everyone, else it would not be special.

After all, Mary’s conception is celebrated Liturgically, not everyone elses. We have only three celebrated conceptions: Christ, John the Baptist (whom we know was Graced in the womb from Scripture), and Mary. If she is not in some way special and unique from at least the womb, such a Liturgical fact makes no sense whatsoever.

Peace and God bless!
 
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