Ethiopian Orthodox?

[Yeoman]

I was driving in Denver a couple of weeks ago and drove by two, huge, Ethiopian Orthodox churches.

Where does the Ethiopian Orthodox church fit into the Orthodox world, and is it common in the US? Is it party of the Orthodox family of churches (I’d guess it must be), or is in any way in communion with Rome?

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

There is a part of it that is in communion with the other Orthodox Churches, and a part that is in communion with Rome. To my knowledge there is only one Ethiopian Catholic church (i.e. parish) in the U.S., and it is in Washington, D.C.

If you get on youtube and type “Ethiopian Orthodox” into the search-box, you’ll get a large number of videos that have Ethiopian chant on them. It is very distinct and very beautiful. Every time I listen to it I get tears in my eyes.

 

[Madaglan]

I was driving in Denver a couple of weeks ago and drove by two, huge, Ethiopian Orthodox churches.

Where does the Ethiopian Orthodox church fit into the Orthodox world, and is it common in the US? Is it party of the Orthodox family of churches (I’d guess it must be), or is in any way in communion with Rome?

The Ethiopian Orthodox Church largely is found in the country of Ethiopia, southeast of Egypt. It has ancient roots and is part of the Oriental Orthodox Communion–along with the Coptic Orthodox of Egypt, the Syrian Orthodox, the Armenian Orthodox and the Eritrean Orthodox Church (closely related to the Ethiopian Orthodox Church). These Churches accept the First three Ecumenical Councils of the Church (Nicaea I, Constantinople I, Ephesus) but reject Chalcedon and subsequent Councils. Their Christology is miaphysite (one Incarnate Nature of God the Logos) and therefore not the same as that passed down in the West and also in the Eastern Orthodox Churches–dyophysitism, two natures, human and divine, united in the one person of Jesus Christ, the Incarnate Word of God. There are other liturgical differences as well. They have a liturgical dance that is quite beautiful and unlike the New-Age nonsense we experience as “liturgical dancing” in the states.

The Ethiopian Orthodox are not in communion with Rome. There is an Ethiopian Catholic Church in Ethiopia and Eritrea, and it is in communion with Rome. However, there is not much of an Ethiopian Catholic presence in North America.

 

[Yeoman]

There is a part of it that is in communion with the other Orthodox Churches, and a part that is in communion with Rome. To my knowledge there is only one Ethiopian Catholic church (i.e. parish) in the U.S., and it is in Washington, D.C.

If you get on youtube and type “Ethiopian Orthodox” into the search-box, you’ll get a large number of videos that have Ethiopian chant on them. It is very distinct and very beautiful. Every time I listen to it I get tears in my eyes.

Phllip, thanks for your answer. FWIW, there’s at least two huge Ethiopian Orthodox churches, both nearly new, in Denver.

By the way, what does “Orthodox in communion with Rome” in your religion indicator mean?

 

[Wildkit]

For perspective, the Ethiopian Orthodox Church has over 35 million members and is the second largest Orthodox Church. It represents over 2.5% of universal Catholics. The Russian Orthodox Church has 110 million members as of 2008 and consists of 8% of universal Catholics according to ]www.cnewa.org. For perspective, the Greek Orthodox Church has 10 million members representing .73% of universal Catholics and the American Orthodox Church has 1 million members comprising .07% of worldwide Catholics. Considering the number of people and percentage, I would look forward to hearing from them!

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

Phllip, thanks for your answer. FWIW, there’s at least two huge Ethiopian Orthodox churches, both nearly new, in Denver.

By the way, what does “Orthodox in communion with Rome” in your religion indicator mean?

Hello Yeoman,

I’ve found the Ethiopian Orthodox and Catholics quite fascinating for awhile now. Sadly, there isn’t really much written about them, at least that I can find. Also, I’m not sure that their liturgical texts have been translated into English. I hope to attend their Liturgy here in D.C. before I move from the area (whenever that might be).

By “Orthodox in Communion with Rome” I mean to affirm, along with the rest of the Melkite Greek Catholic Church, “I believe everything which Eastern Orthodoxy teaches. And I am in communion with the Bishop of Rome as the first among the bishops, according to the limits recognized by the Holy Fathers of the East during the first millennium, before the separation.” In other words, I am fully Orthodox and fully Catholic.

This concept can, at first, be very difficult for Roman Catholics to accept/comprehend. As a former Roman Catholic, it took a while for me to get used to it as well. But this is what the Holy Father has been calling Eastern Catholics to be since the Union of Brest in the 16th Century.

 

[Madaglan]

Hello Yeoman,

I’ve found the Ethiopian Orthodox and Catholics quite fascinating for awhile now. Sadly, there isn’t really much written about them, at least that I can find. Also, I’m not sure that their liturgical texts have been translated into English. I hope to attend their Liturgy here in D.C. before I move from the area (whenever that might be).

By “Orthodox in Communion with Rome” I mean to affirm, along with the rest of the Melkite Greek Catholic Church, “I believe everything which Eastern Orthodoxy teaches. And I am in communion with the Bishop of Rome as the first among the bishops, according to the limits recognized by the Holy Fathers of the East during the first millennium, before the separation.” In other words, I am fully Orthodox and fully Catholic.

This concept can, at first, be very difficult for Roman Catholics to accept/comprehend. As a former Roman Catholic, it took a while for me to get used to it as well. But this is what the Holy Father has been calling Eastern Catholics to be since the Union of Brest in the 16th Century.

The book Prayers from the East: Traditions of Eastern Christianity, edited by Richard Marsh, contains a few liturgical prayers from the Ethiopian tradition translated into English. Not that many, but it does give a flavor. .

 

[Aramis]

I was driving in Denver a couple of weeks ago and drove by two, huge, Ethiopian Orthodox churches.

Where does the Ethiopian Orthodox church fit into the Orthodox world, and is it common in the US? Is it party of the Orthodox family of churches (I’d guess it must be), or is in any way in communion with Rome?

Orthodox is a misleading term…

The Tehwado Orthodox are part of the Oriental Orthodox Communion.

They are miaphysites. The Eastern Orthodox, until recently, universally considered them heretics…

 

[rowlands]

ethiopianorthodox.org/biography/englishethiopianliturgy.pdf

 

[5Loaves]

There is a part of it that is in communion with the other Orthodox Churches, and a part that is in communion with Rome. To my knowledge there is only one Ethiopian Catholic church (i.e. parish) in the U.S., and it is in Washington, D.C.

There are several others listed in the US.

We have 3 Ge’ez parishes listed locally (San Francisco Bay Area), although they are “Eritrean”. I don’t know what the actual mix is. I know a number of Eritreans and Ethiopians attend the local Greek Orthodox Cathedral, and there is an Ethiopian Orthodox Tehwado Parish in the same town here. Their website says "Last updated 18th May 2010 " so they’re more lively than many places. It’s got quite a lot of nice information on it. They have some audio links on their site. Their site even has an Ethiopian Synaxarion.

 

[5Loaves]

Orthodox is a misleading term…

The Tehwado Orthodox are part of the Oriental Orthodox Communion.

They are miaphysites. The Eastern Orthodox, until recently, universally considered them heretics.…

What are they considered now?

 

[Harpazo]

Orthodox is a misleading term…

The Tehwado Orthodox are part of the Oriental Orthodox Communion.

They are miaphysites. The Eastern Orthodox, until recently, universally considered them heretics…

Oh brother. :banghead: I don’t even know what your response had to do with the OPs question and how these fantastic claims that you and other ECs like to throw out contribute to any sense of fraternal discussion. I frankly don’t see why it was necessary at all.

I have avoided the Eastern Catholicism sub-forum for such a long time because of all these passive, subtle little potshots that ECs like to take at Orthodoxy. I think I will just extend my absence from here longer.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[Ghosty]

Oh brother. :banghead: I don’t even know what your response had to do with the OPs question and how these fantastic claims that you and other ECs like to throw out contribute to any sense of fraternal discussion. I frankly don’t see why it was necessary at all.

I have avoided the Eastern Catholicism sub-forum for such a long time because of all these passive, subtle little potshots that ECs like to take at Orthodoxy. I think I will just extend my absence from here longer.

In Christ,
Andrew

It’s not a pot shot, it’s a plain fact. The Oriental Orthodox are not the same Communion as the Eastern Orthodox, and until a few decades ago the Oriental Orthodox were explicitely considered heretics by the Eastern Orthodox Communion. In fact, this opinion is still held by some within the Eastern Orthodox Communion.

Unfortunately many people in the West don’t know the difference between Oriental and Eastern Orthodox, and assume that they are the same group. Aramis was simply trying to clarify the matter.

What exactly do you object to?

Peace and God bless!

 

[Madaglan]

It’s not a pot shot, it’s a plain fact. The Oriental Orthodox are not the same Communion as the Eastern Orthodox, and until a few decades ago the Oriental Orthodox were explicitely considered heretics by the Eastern Orthodox Communion. In fact, this opinion is still held by some within the Eastern Orthodox Communion.

Unfortunately many people in the West don’t know the difference between Oriental and Eastern Orthodox, and assume that they are the same group. Aramis was simply trying to clarify the matter.

What exactly do you object to?

Peace and God bless!

The RCC, the EO and the Protestants all of the Chalcedonian tradition considered them Monophysites until rather recently.

 

[Harpazo]

It’s not a pot shot, it’s a plain fact. The Oriental Orthodox are not the same Communion as the Eastern Orthodox, and until a few decades ago the Oriental Orthodox were explicitely considered heretics by the Eastern Orthodox Communion. In fact, this opinion is still held by some within the Eastern Orthodox Communion.

Unfortunately many people in the West don’t know the difference between Oriental and Eastern Orthodox, and assume that they are the same group. Aramis was simply trying to clarify the matter.

What exactly do you object to?

Peace and God bless!

Of course it’s a plain fact. We all know this and I’m not objecting to its being a fact.

To what do I object? These little passive, snide comments that many ECs seem to drop all the time in their replies. I do my darnedest to keep focus on the topic at hand and remain charitable. In my reply, I could have made mention of a plain fact about something in the Latin church. But it’s not germane to this thread and it would have been rude. Sadly, I am finding more of these little remarks from ECs on here as going out of their way to push people away from Orthodoxy. It seems like a paranoia, really.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[Aramis]

@Andrew: I should have used “inadequate” and “incomplete” rather than “misleading.”

Given that “Orthodox” is used by the EOC, the OOC, and the Jacobites, as well as some of the Greek Catholics… it is, when unqualified, a misleading and useless term, as it implies a unity which has not existed since the 3rd Council… the term “Orthodox” without any qualifier really is inadequate, incomplete, and thus misleading and problematic.

as for the comment on heretical… the recent joint declaration of common Christology explicitly means that the signatory EOC member churches *no longer *consider the miaphysite signatories (including the Coptic Orthodox, Eritrean Orthodox, and Tehwado Orthodox) to be heretical. The historical facts are readily seen online, so easily so that it’s not worth even bothering to cite…

Likewise, the Catholics and the OOC have signed common Christology declarations as well.

 

[Madaglan]

@Andrew: I should have used “inadequate” and “incomplete” rather than “misleading.”

Given that “Orthodox” is used by the EOC, the OOC, and the Jacobites, as well as some of the Greek Catholics… it is, when unqualified, a misleading and useless term, as it implies a unity which has not existed since the 3rd Council… the term “Orthodox” without any qualifier really is inadequate, incomplete, and thus misleading and problematic.

as for the comment on heretical… the recent joint declaration of common Christology explicitly means that the signatory EOC member churches *no longer *consider the miaphysite signatories (including the Coptic Orthodox, Eritrean Orthodox, and Tehwado Orthodox) to be heretical. The historical facts are readily seen online, so easily so that it’s not worth even bothering to cite…

Likewise, the Catholics and the OOC have signed common Christology declarations as well.

The profession of being “Christian” can also be seen as problematic, inadequate, incomplete and misleading, especially to outsiders of Christianity. When Pope Benedict XVI says he is Christian, he certainly means something different from what Brother Abrel and Brother Ethem mean when they say they are Christian. The same might be said of the profession of “One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.” This does not detract from the value of using the word(s) as self-designation, but one may need to qualify what one means when one says it.

Quite frankly, the “realization” by both the Latin Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox that the Copts, Armenians, Syrians and Ethiopians were not heretics after all for the past 1500 years, does raise difficult questions.

 

[Ghosty]

Of course it’s a plain fact. We all know this and I’m not objecting to its being a fact.

To what do I object? These little passive, snide comments that many ECs seem to drop all the time in their replies. I do my darnedest to keep focus on the topic at hand and remain charitable. In my reply, I could have made mention of a plain fact about something in the Latin church. But it’s not germane to this thread and it would have been rude. Sadly, I am finding more of these little remarks from ECs on here as going out of their way to push people away from Orthodoxy. It seems like a paranoia, really.

In Christ,
Andrew

My point is that all Aramis was saying is that the Ethiopian Orthodox are not the same as the Eastern Orthodox. How on Earth that could be considered a snide comment, or that it would push people away from Orthodoxy, is beyond me.

 

[Ghosty]

The RCC, the EO and the Protestants all of the Chalcedonian tradition considered them Monophysites until rather recently.

Yep, but when people see “Ethiopian Orthodox” they aren’t likely to think we’re talking about a Catholic Church, while they might very well think we’re talking about a part of the Eastern Orthodox Communion. It’s a point worth clarifying when confusion begins to crop up, as it did in the OP when he said “the Orthodox family of Churches” (since, in fact, there are two distinct “Orthodox families of Churches” and not one).

Again, this isn’t in anyway an attack on Eastern Orthodoxy, and I don’t see how it could be. For what it’s worth, your post said essentially the same thing as Aramis’ and was even more informative. You weren’t called out by your fellow Orthodox for highlighting the distinction between the Oriental and Eastern Orthodox, however.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Aramis]

Four families, Ghosty…
Eastern Orthodox
Oriental Orthodox (Miaphysites)
Jacobite Orthodox
Ukrainian Non-Canonical Orthodox (UOC-KP, AUOC, UAOC, UOC-USA, etc)

The Ukrainians being pretty much the same belief and praxis as the EO’s Ukrainian Orthodox - Moscow Patriarchate, but clearly NOT in communion with the EOC churches… and some of them have intercommunion with each other.

And then there are the “Independent Orthodox” …