Ethnic Catholic parishes on every corner vs. mega Catholic parishes

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Duesenberg

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It’s interesting how things change over time. Catholicism first exploded in the US in the Northeast and then into the Midwest. Tales of Irish, Italian, German and whatever “ethnic parishes” on all four corners of some intersections. Now such communities have an overabundance of Catholic parishes.

Catholicism never really took hold in the Deep South until much, much later. Only in the last few decades has the Church been able to make serious inroads into the Bible Belt, in part due to the migration of Mexican Catholics.

In these “clean sheet” regions, Catholic mega parishes like St. Matthew’s of Charlotte, NC and St. Elizabeth Ann Seton in Houston take hold and GROW. Some feel that parishes like St. Matt’s (the largest Catholic parish in the US with 10,370 registered families) and St. Liz’s (with 10,255 registered households at #2) are the future of Catholicism in many areas of the US.

The faithful will come to Mass on Sundays and then meet in “small faith groups” just like many Protestant parishes. I wonder if things will work out that way?

NC now has country’s biggest Catholic parish – in Charlotte
 
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There has also been a lot of migration with Rust Belt Catholics moving to points south as well over the past 40 years or so.

Catholic immigrants came here to Pittsburgh, and other mining and manufacturing centers for the work which eventually disappeared.

The “small faith group” idea sounds like it makes sense, particularly in areas like the Carolinas where Catholics are still a small minority. In the Rust Belt, most of your neighbors are likely
to be Catholic, so a special grouping isn’t as necessary.
 
Hopefully immigration can help.
In the past the only really Catholic state in the deep south that I am aware of was Louisiana.

But now with so much immigration from Mexico and South America, more may see the Catholic Faith for what it is.
 
Augustinian said:
The “small faith group” idea sounds like it makes sense, particularly in areas like the Carolinas where Catholics are still a small minority. In the Rust Belt, most of your neighbors are likely
to be Catholic, so a special grouping isn’t as necessary.
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It would be nice if ALL parishes had small faith groups.
 
In 2010 There were 900,000 Catholics in the Archdiocese of Atlanta. My Church has more than 9000 members. The AD for years welcomed thousands of new Catholics each year at the Atlanta Civic Center [seats 4,600] and finally outgrew this venue and now rites are held at the world congress center downtown to accommodate the growing amount of new members. I cant speak for other southern states, but Georgia has to be one of the largest growth states for Catholic in the south. Competition is definitely welcome though!

Parishes down here are not closing, but opening. Very inspirational.
 
Duesenberg said:
It’s interesting how things change over time. Catholicism first exploded in the US in the Northeast and then into the Midwest.
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To be fair, the U.S. itself “first exploded in the Northeast and then into the Midwest.” 😉

Nevertheless, in past generations, when access to transportation was more limited, neighborhood enterprises were necessary. These days, when most have one or more cars in their household, this limitation is no longer present. So, whereas a mega-store for groceries or other goods is now a possibility, it couldn’t possibly have taken hold 100 years ago.

Similarly, then, the ‘need’ for a parish in every neighborhood – let alone an ethnic parish in every town – is no longer a necessity. Large parishes are able to minister to people from a much wider geographic spread than in previous generations.

Does it ‘feel’ weird to American Catholics in the Rust Belt? Undoubtedly. Is it necessary – or even the best use of our diocesan and parish resources? Hardly.
 
2towers said:
Parishes down here are not closing, but opening. Very inspirational.
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If the vast majority of the growth are folks moving into the diocese, and not people converting, its really not an accomplishment for the Church. Its a challenge to respond to.
 
Did you read the part about thousands being welcomed in the church every year? These are first Communions and converts.
 
2towers said:
Parishes down here are not closing, but opening. Very inspirational.
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GOOD to hear. We actually open parishes here in California as well. Our huge problem is land cost. Our small city should have about 6 Catholic parishes. Instead it had 2. Since the end of WWII five families have offered to donate property for new parishes in the city. ALL were rejected as late as 1974. “Just schedule more Masses” in existing parishes was the “solution.”

The five properties (parcels of land) that were offered are worth in excess of $15M today. It’s sad they were not accepted by individuals with greater vision.
 
2towers said:
Did you read the part about thousands being welcomed in the church every year? These are first Communions and converts.
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Yep, that’s pretty awesome. I don’t know much about St. Liz’s, but St. Matt’s is really something from the reading I have done about it. The pastor has taken a lot of cues from Saddleback Church here in California – which will make some people immediately condemn it of courre.
 
Duesenberg said:
Our huge problem is land cost. Our small city should have about 6 Catholic parishes. Instead it had 2.
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What do you think an optimum size for a parish should be? If enough Catholic are living in close enough proximity, is it really worthwhile to split a small territory up into even smaller districts?

BTW, as far as the cost of real estate, were you aware that St. Patrick’s Cathedral in New York was originally built in the country? The Catholic cathedral here in Pittsburgh was pretty much out in the country too–although money wasn’t an issue for the Pittsburgh Diocese in 1906 when the cathedral was built. Henry Frick paid top dollar so he could put a shopping mall on the lot of the old cathedral.
 
Augustinian said:
What do you think an optimum size for a parish should be? If enough Catholic are living in close enough proximity, is it really worthwhile to split a small territory up into even smaller districts?
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Good question. That would depend on a great many things. What I’m certain is unhealthy is having 7 Masses every Sunday and having to be concerned about clearing out the parking place between Masses. That KILLS chances for fellowship. If the resources existed, I would say the idea size of a parish is the number of people that can fit into its church. That’s pretty close to what a lot of very success Protestant churches follow.
Augustinian said:
BTW, as far as the cost of real estate, were you aware that St. Patrick’s Cathedral in New York was originally built in the country?
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Yes I was. On a former pigsty.
 
Duesenberg said:
The pastor has taken a lot of cues from Saddleback Church here in California – which will make some people immediately condemn it of courre.
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Why would anyone condemn it? If the folks at Saddleback have more experience in organizing a large church with a widely dispersed
congregation, it would seem wise to take a look at their solutions and consider adapting them.
 
Augustinian said:
Why would anyone condemn it? If the folks at Saddleback have more experience in organizing a large church with a widely dispersed

congregation, it would seem wise to take a look at their solutions and consider adapting them.
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I would agree – except now there are mega-Catholic parishes to study. They didn’t exist when St. Matt’s was created.
 
It makes me wish the southwest developed the same way. There’s countless half-alive tiny parishes that diocese’s feel obligated to maintain with a priest, or split priests between multiple parishes. It’s a horrible arrangement for the clergy. It either takes a special grace to want to go there, or the missionary priests are simply used as cannon fodder.
 
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While I’m glad the church in Charlotte has such good attendance, and I understand not wanting to construct a lot of smaller church buildings that might later need to be closed, the idea of a Catholic “megachurch” is not to my personal preference. If faced with a parish situation like that, I’d probably start looking for a monastery, shrine, or some smaller place where I could worship without feeling like I was going to a football game every week.

I doubt very much that the areas of the country where I spend time will ever really go for this centralized-huge-Church idea. The South is a different culture and is set up differently in general so I can see it being normal there but not in the Northeast US.
 
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