Euacharist for all?

[KCT]

Coming back to that Easter service - obviously scores of Catholics attended who only visit the church twice a year. I can’t imagine anyone of them “having bound themselves closer to their sin” by receiving communion. Your priest will have judged them, but I don’t think that Christ rejected them if they wanted to receive Him with an open heart.

We can love a person and not love their actions. I sin all the time, and Christ still loves me.

 

[Brendan_64]

Coming back to that Easter service - obviously scores of Catholics attended who only visit the church twice a year. I can’t imagine anyone of them “having bound themselves closer to their sin” by receiving communion. Your priest will have judged them, but I don’t think that Christ rejected them if they wanted to receive Him with an open heart.

And what constitutes an ‘open heart’? Does the mere fact that someone receives mean they have an ‘open heart’?

Is repentance of mortal sin necessary? Would receiving unworthily, in contravention to the scriptures, still constitute an ‘open heart’?

I think a real issue is that there are a lot of people who don’t really believe in sin, or if they do don’t make the connection between sin, redemption and receiving Communion. The connection between the sacraments of Penance and the Eucharist seems not to be made by many.

 

[Tigg]

And what constitutes an ‘open heart’? Does the mere fact that someone receives mean they have an ‘open heart’?

Is repentance of mortal sin necessary? Would receiving unworthily, in contravention to the scriptures, still constitute an ‘open heart’?

I think a real issue is that there are a lot of people who don’t really believe in sin, or if they do don’t make the connection between sin, redemption and receiving Communion. The connection between the sacraments of Penance and the Eucharist seems not to be made by many.

How true this is and the discussions regarding the synod on communion for the divorced/civilly remarried give testament to it. That without repentance, contrition and a resolve to amend one’s life, one can not turn their heart to God.

 

[Mark121359]

How true this is and the discussions regarding the synod on communion for the divorced/civilly remarried give testament to it. That without repentance, contrition and a resolve to amend one’s life, one can not turn their heart to God.

 

[Mark121359]

I think a real issue is that there are a lot of people who don’t really believe in sin, or if they do don’t make the connection between sin, redemption and receiving Communion. The connection between the sacraments of Penance and the Eucharist seems not to be made by many.

I’m guessing that a lot of people don’t fully comprehend or believe in the Real Presence! If they did and they were in a state of sin, then surely going to confession would be a prerequisite prior to receiving Jesus…right?

Peace, Mark

 

[Hans_W]

The Mass is Christ’s wedding banquet. Remember the passage in the Gospel that one person attended the wedding banquet without proper wedding garment was thrown out?

People in mortal sin don’t have proper wedding garment on them; therefore, they are not supposed to receive the Eucharist. This is directly from the Gospel, directly from Christ himself. It is very clear.

Cherry picking quotes from the Bible will support your view. I can come up with passages supporting the opposite.

Fact is that thousands of people received communion (worldwide probably millions) during Easter, and I cannot see that this would “bind them closer to their sin”.

When I grew up in Europe (quite a while ago) we received communion on the tongue, from the priest only, while kneeling. Only a small percentage of the congregation came forward, the rest didn’t feel prepared, some had eaten breakfast which was not allowed before receiving communion.

Today (I am part of a large striving church) almost everybody comes to receive communion. There are often five or more communion servers and it takes them 15-20 minutes to get through the lot.

I am not saying today is the right way of doing things. Some of the congregation will be sincerely aware of His real presence, others less, some not. Very few will have confessed their grave sins before. I think that even if your body and mind are not ready to receive Him (when are we really ready?) God will do His magic, in a way we cannot even begin to understand.

 

[PDXSeeker_1975]

Cherry picking quotes from the Bible will support your view. I can come up with passages supporting the opposite.

Exactly. Which is why we need to trust the Church’s teaching authority in the first place.

 

[Brendan_64]

Exactly. Which is why we need to trust the Church’s teaching authority in the first place.

 

[Brendan]

Cherry picking quotes from the Bible will support your view. I can come up with passages supporting the opposite.

Fact is that thousands of people received communion (worldwide probably millions) during Easter, and I cannot see that this would “bind them closer to their sin”…

That is a fallacy known as an argument from ignorance. Such a fallacy states that because the observer can envision no alternative, the premise must be true

 

[Hans_W]

That is a fallacy known as an argument from ignorance. Such a fallacy states that because the observer can envision no alternative, the premise must be true

And, needless to say, the argument from ignorance doesn’t apply to you. You know the Truth.

Just to anticipate your reply - this “binding them closer to their sin” isn’t the TRUTH either.

 

[Elizium23]

I think that even if your body and mind are not ready to receive Him (when are we really ready?) God will do His magic, in a way we cannot even begin to understand.

It is NOT “magic”, and it is reprehensible for you to suggest that it is.

 

[Hans_W]

From what I’ve read, the Church has ALWAYS had closed Communion. In fact, in the early Church, those who were not baptized couldn’t even stay during the Liturgy of the Eucharist - they had to leave. (This is the origin of the dismissal of the catechumens and candidates after the Liturgy of the Word.)

At least we agree that things have changed in the Church. And things will change again.

 

[Hans_W]

It is NOT “magic”, and it is reprehensible for you to suggest that it is.

That’s great for you to KNOW that God only enlightens the ones who receive communion worthily and rejects those who receive it unworthily. I cannot boast to have this kind of knowledge.

I believe that God enlightens also the unworthy ones. Call it mysterious if you find the word “magic” reprehensible.

 

[Hans_W]

Some more Bible cherry picking …

 

[jilly4ski]

Some more Bible cherry picking …

How is that biblical quote “cherry picking.” It directly references the topic at hand. And it is directly referenced in this paragraph in the Catechism.

1385 To respond to this invitation we must prepare ourselves for so great and so holy a moment. St. Paul urges us to examine our conscience: "Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself."218 Anyone conscious of a grave sin must receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before coming to communion.

218 is cited to 1 Cor 11:27-29.

 

[Brendan]

And, needless to say, the argument from ignorance doesn’t apply to you. You know the Truth.

Just to anticipate your reply - this “binding them closer to their sin” isn’t the TRUTH either.

What Catholics present in this matter is called an argument from authority, which is not a fallacy in and of its self,

Examples of that would be declaring the capital of the peoples republic of China as Beijing and citing the Rand McNally Atlas as the authority.

 

[DeniseNY]

thecatholicthing.org/2015/01/10/higher-standard-possible/

Interesting piece on this subject.

Apparently Archbishop Dew agrees with the sentiment of some of New Zealand’s non-practicing Catholics who contend that Church law and discipline about receiving Holy Communion “is so negative that it doesn’t help us.”

My question is: Help in what way? The purpose of those restrictions is to help souls attain eternal life. Canon 1752, the final canon in the Code of Canon Law, states: “the salvation of souls. . .must always be the supreme law.”

 

[Hans_W]

thecatholicthing.org/2015/01/10/higher-standard-possible/

Interesting piece on this subject.

I hope you didn’t single out this quote because it originated in New Zealand. That will be pretty much the view of Catholics worldwide.

I am thinking of the millions of Catholics who’s beliefs are lukewarm and who only get into a Church on days like Christmas and Easter. Does it any good to tell them how bad they are? Do you want to exclude them from communion? How many would come back again?

 

[Vico]

Those that return to Church can receive the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of penance, if they repent. Rebuke is recommended for others:
Titus 1:13 This testimony is true. Wherefore, rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith:

Titus 2:5 These things speak and exhort and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Titus 3:10 A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid:

1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin reprove before all that the rest also may have fear.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine.

James 5:20 He must know that he who causeth a sinner to be converted from the error of his way shall save his soul from death and shall cover a multitude of sins.

 

[ProVobis]

I hope you didn’t single out this quote because it originated in New Zealand. That will be pretty much the view of Catholics worldwide.

I am thinking of the millions of Catholics who’s beliefs are lukewarm and who only get into a Church on days like Christmas and Easter. Does it any good to tell them how bad they are? Do you want to exclude them from communion? How many would come back again?

If their beliefs are lukewarm, why do you presume that they would care if the Real Presence were not offered them?