Eucharist and contraception

[Dugtrio1]

I am sure the bishops will make preserving sexual responsibility very seriously if they ever revisit these issues.

 

[AlNg]

The evidence says it is false.

So you say it is not true that the Rome publication, Studi Cattolici, published in 1961 gave the unanimous views of Msgr. Pietro Palazzini, secretary of the Sacred Congregation, Professor Franz Hurth, S.J., of the Pontifical Gregorian University, and Msgr. Ferdinando Lambruschini of the Pontifical Lateran University that they approved the use of the pill as a contraceptive when a woman is threatened with rape, as were Catholic nuns in the Congo ?

 

[Pup7]

I respect you, Joey, for sure, but since more than 80% of fellow Catholics don’t see it as an issue you’re likely sitting amongst them every Sunday.

Every Mass, even.

 

[thistle]

Erika. I salute you on your courage to even post a dissenting opinion. Personally, I’m tired of the pontificators who want to lecture and convince everyone of their magnificent understanding of Jesus and His Church. I’d cite the catechism section on individual conscience and its role in the spiritual condition of a person, but I just don’t want to put up with the Roman Protestants or the Catholic Pharisees.

The Catechism teaching on conscience is not a get out of jail card. It cannot be used as a means to justify sinning. The conscience has to be formed in accordance with the Church teachings. Anyone who rejects an infallible teaching is a heretic.

 

[QwertyGirl]

The Catechism teaching on conscience is not a get out of jail card. It cannot be used as a means to justify sinning. The conscience has to be formed in accordance with the Church teachings. Anyone who rejects an infallible teaching is a heretic.

I think it is pretty offensive the number of people here who assume others don’t understand the concept of conscience. To suggest that someone equates using their well informaed conscience to make certain decisions with believing it is a “get out of jail card free” is pretty insulting. I think if we all mind our own conscience, and let others do the same without trying to define that for them, we will be better off.

 

[ModernCatholic]

I honestly don’t know why this has to be so complicated and such a problem. If you are not married then this doesn’t even effect you. And if you are married and you say, “I am going to do this so that I can have the pleasure of sex without having children,” you have commited a sin. (This does not include NFP since it promotes not having sex or sexual pleasure as the method and not having sex and sexual pleasure while finding a way to get rid of/prevent the product.) If you have done this freely deliberately (meaning unless were forced to and didn’t want to) while having knowledge that it was a sin (mostly applies to Catholics and fallen away Catholics since they would have at one point heard and accepted Church teaching, even if denies now), full knowledge you were commiting it (unless tricked, etc.), and full knowledge of the gravity of it (knew it was or was told by the Church it was a serious sin) then you have commited mortal sin. It’s really not such a hard concept. And then on top of that I don’t even understand why people want to prevent the conception of babies through the act that it was meant to happen. Contraception by it’s nature is a very concrete act. You either did it or you didn’t. The thing wrong with it is mostly the attitude which is not open to procreation. And why risk even commiting any type of sin for something like this? It’s just not worth it. It’s not something worthy of being fought for since it does not support God or his kingdom in any way. Especially in the context of his Church. It literally only focuses on self pleasure.

 

[thistle]

I think it is pretty offensive the number of people here who assume others don’t understand the concept of conscience. To suggest that someone equates using their well informaed conscience to make certain decisions with believing it is a “get out of jail card free” is pretty insulting. I think if we all mind our own conscience, and let others do the same without trying to define that for them, we will be better off.

The teaching on artificial birth control where the purpose of its use is to prevent pregnancy is an infallible teaching. Nobody can say oh well my conscience says its okay to use it so I am not sinning. Give me a break. The teachings of Christ do not work like that!! Anyone rejecting or having an obstinate doubt about any infallible teaching commits heresy. You cannot use “conscience” to get round that!

 

[Pup7]

QwertyGirl:

I think it is pretty offensive the number of people here who assume others don’t understand the concept of conscience. To suggest that someone equates using their well informaed conscience to make certain decisions with believing it is a “get out of jail card free” is pretty insulting. I think if we all mind our own conscience, and let others do the same without trying to define that for them, we will be better off.

The teaching on artificial birth control where the purpose of its use is to prevent pregnancy is an infallible teaching. Nobody can say oh well my conscience says its okay to use it so I am not sinning. Give me a break. The teachings of Christ do not work like that!! Anyone rejecting or having an obstinate doubt about any infallible teaching commits heresy. You cannot use “conscience” to get round that!

The article I posted says there’s a case for infallibility. Not that it’s infallible.

The article came from the USCCB site to boot.

People can say that, and they are saying it.

 

[thistle]

The article I posted says there’s a case for infallibility. Not that it’s infallible.

The article came from the USCCB site to boot.

Are you a supporter of those claiming conscience to justify continuing to sin?

 

[Pup7]

I’m a supporter of staying out of the intimate business of others that is between that soul and God.

Unless you plan on standing by the priest at Communion and asking every person about their sins and what they may or may not be up to…

I also believe NFP is birth control - because it is.

 

[AlNg]

The teaching on artificial birth control where the purpose of its use is to prevent pregnancy is an infallible teaching.

I thought that it was to be held but it wasn’t an infallible teaching. Where did the Pope or the Vatican say that the teaching was infallible?

 

[QwertyGirl]

The teaching on artificial birth control where the purpose of its use is to prevent pregnancy is an infallible teaching. Nobody can say oh well my conscience says its okay to use it so I am not sinning. Give me a break

Sure they can, and they do. Take the family with five kids and two have special needs to the point of the expense taking food out of the mouths of the other three. This is a matter of conscience between them and God. And that is what most priests will tell them, too.

 

[Reuben_J]

It’s the Church’s teaching that I am defending, not my own. There are plenty of people in this thread insisting that they know better than the Church and that successive generations of priests, bishops, and Popes have been wrong about contraception all along. If I am being prideful, then many others are as well.

Look, I get that I’m not going to change anyone’s mind here; if people don’t agree with or accept the Church’s teaching(s), that’s their business. I am merely trying to provide accurate information on what the moral teachings of the Church are. Use of contraception is illicit and immoral and has always been taught by the Church to be so. People will have to make their own decisions as they always have.

Thank you for saying this. I totally agree that we cannot dissent from official Church’s teaching. And if we do, it is at our own peril of committing mortal sin.

I think the argument here seem to conflate the prohibition of artifical birth control with medical treatment, which is doing a disservice to this thread.

Medical treatment that results in stopping of ovulation is always allowed or at least allowed in deserving case. Practcing artificial birth control for one who is healthy for the purpose of preventing ovulution is not. Reason like being unable to support the children financially is not. We could have allowed birth control in devloping countries if this is the case, but the Catholic Church never agree to that.

Ultimately sin is not for vote or because it is not popular. It does not matter 100% Catholics do not agree. It is still a sin and we can only gamble our souls to the Devil. We cannot say we do not know or claim ignorant when we disagree with a Church’s teaching.

 

[ModernCatholic]

Agreed.

 

[joeybaggz]

thistle:

The teaching on artificial birth control where the purpose of its use is to prevent pregnancy is an infallible teaching.

I thought that it was to be held but it wasn’t an infallible teaching. Where did the Pope or the Vatican say that the teaching was infallible?

Again, the incorrect understanding of the difference between Infallible Teaching and teaching infallibly. An infallible teaching is one declared by the Pope from the See of Peter that a certain doctrine or dogma is binding on all Catholics. Or when all the bishops speak in one voice.
Teaching infallibly is proposing a matter of faith or morals in a manner that is not wrong, but not necessarily completely right. Maybe, maybe not. It is that gift of the Holy Spirit that assures the church that it will not fall into doctrinal error, or simply teach perverted or corrupt doctrine.

Humanae Vitae is taught infallibly. Not all the bishops agreed with Paul VI in 1968 and if you canvassed them today, I think you might get a similar response. The church’s position against ABC is not wrong. The question is is it always right.

 

[crenfro]

Hello.

Have you looked into Natural Family Planning?

Otherwise, it looks like you’ve got some good and wise answers in this thread. It’s your soul and your choice … I hope you decide to do what will lead you to salvation.

My two cents…

 

[Vonsalza]

tseleehw:

It’s the Church’s teaching that I am defending, not my own. There are plenty of people in this thread insisting that they know better than the Church and that successive generations of priests, bishops, and Popes have been wrong about contraception all along. If I am being prideful, then many others are as well.

Look, I get that I’m not going to change anyone’s mind here; if people don’t agree with or accept the Church’s teaching(s), that’s their business. I am merely trying to provide accurate information on what the moral teachings of the Church are. Use of contraception is illicit and immoral and has always been taught by the Church to be so. People will have to make their own decisions as they always have.

Thank you for saying this. I totally agree that we cannot dissent from official Church’s teaching. And if we do, it is at our own peril of committing mortal sin…

“And yet it moves…”

 

[AlNg]

Teaching infallibly is proposing a matter of faith or morals in a manner that is not wrong, but not necessarily completely right. Maybe, maybe not.

“Maybe, maybe not” does not sound like something infallible to me. “Maybe, maybe not” is not a guarantee that something is absolutely trustworthy which is what infallible implies.

 

[joeybaggz]

“Maybe, maybe not” does not sound like something infallible to me. “Maybe, maybe not” is not a guarantee that something is absolutely trustworthy which is what infallible implies.

Duh… infallibility is a charism that is of the Holy Spirit insuring that teaching on faith and moral issues is not in error. The teaching is not in error, is it absolutely 100% incontrovertibly right, maybe, and maybe it needs more study and revelation before is can be considered an Infallible teaching. Maybe, maybe not …. Duh…

 

[MCH1]

They should practice NFP in that circumstance.

And that is what most priests will tell them, too.

A good priest will not.