B
Bookcat
Guest
Yes we examine ourselves. Our conscience.
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felsguy
Guest
Not wanting to restart the battle over semantics again, but I maintain that in common Catholic usage “grave sin” means “mortal sin” and thus not all violations of a Commandment are mortal sins.
B
Bookcat
Guest
Not only that but it is in official Catholic usage both in terms of the sin committed and the matter of the sin. (grave sin = mortal sin = serious sin)
And too boot - not all sins that fall under the 10 Commandments are grave in matter.
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Brendan_64
Guest
If in doubt, go to Confession.
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Bookcat
Guest
Yes such is very good advice for those who are lax or who have a normal conscience. That is good rule of thumb -of course noting to the confessor that one has doubt about it.
For those with scruples -they can be in a different boat and ought to have a regular confessor to direct them who knows them. They are often directed not to confess doubtful sins.
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Brendan_64
Guest
That too is very good advice.
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ProVobis
Guest
I disagree. Grave is a matter of degree (“gravis” “gravior” “gravissimus”) while mortal comes from the Latin “mors, mortis” meaning death, which is not a matter of degree. However, I would agree with your conclusion.
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felsguy
Guest
I’ll still bet the ranch that nine out of ten English speaking Catholics in the real world equate grave sin with mortal sin and vice versa.
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Vico
Guest
That seems to be in accord with the opinion of St. Pope John Paul II:Considering sin from the point of view of its matter, the ideas of death, of radical rupture with God, the supreme good, of deviation from the path that leads to God or interruption of the journey toward him (which are all ways of defining mortal sin) are linked with the idea of the gravity of sin’s objective content. Hence, in the church’s doctrine and pastoral action, grave sin is in practice identified with mortal sin.
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_02121984_reconciliatio-et-paenitentia_en.html
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ProVobis
Guest
I don’t think he wrote it in English. The Polish version is:
The key words are ciężki (which is “heavy, oppressive”) and śmiertelnym (traditionally translated to “mortal”).
I couldn’t find the Latin version.
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Vico
Guest
Si autem materiam peccati respicimus, notiones mortis, absolutae alienationis a Deo, summo bono, declinationis ab itinere, quod ducit ad Deum, vel intermissionis itineris ad eum (hi omnes sunt modi, quibus peccatum mortale detinitur), copulantur cum notione gravitatis eius quod obiective ibi continetur: peccatum grave practice idem est in doctrina et actione pastorali Ecclesiae, ac peccatum mortale.
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_02121984_reconciliatio-et-paenitentia_lt.html
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ProVobis
Guest
Thanks. Exactly what I was looking for. I thought I tried with the lt extension.
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Bookcat
Guest
Mortal sin = Serious sin = Grave sin
They are synonyms in the Church. The differing terms yes brings out different aspect of the sin (that is not light but quite serious or that yes it brings spiritual death). But they synonyms.
They are synonyms in the Church. The differing terms yes brings out different aspect of the sin (that is not light but quite serious or that yes it brings spiritual death). But they synonyms.
B
Bookcat
Guest
A Few Examples of the Church interchanging the terms:
CCC1385: “Anyone conscious of a grave sin must receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before coming to communion.”
(we all know of course that the only sins that we are obliged to confess are “mortal sins” yet note that the Church often uses the term “grave sin” to mean mortal sin. Grave sin can not ever mean “venial sin” but only mortal sin. Though of course there can be a “grave matter” involved but lack of full knowledge or complete consent --hence no mortal sin/grave sin/serious sin is committed --this is where the confusion enters in often)
From: The Compendium of the Catechism issued by Pope Benedict XVI
"304. Which sins must be confessed?
1456
All grave sins not yet confessed, which a careful examination of conscience brings to mind, must be brought to the sacrament of Penance. The confession of serious sins is the only ordinary way to obtain forgiveness." (see also Canon Law …the term is used there too).
1415
To receive Holy Communion one must be fully incorporated into the Catholic Church and be in the state of grace, that is, not conscious of being in mortal sin. Anyone who is conscious of having committed a grave sin must first receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before going to Communion.
(note that one used BOTH to mean the same thing in the same paragraph… for variety in use of language in writing…one will find it is the same in say Latin.)
“However, it must be remembered that the church, guided by faith in this great sacrament, teaches that no Christian who is conscious of grave sin can receive the eucharist before having obtained God’s forgiveness.”
St. Pope John Paul II Reconciliatio et Paenitentia 17
And in a speech from St. Pope John Paul II
“The sacrament of Penance is meant to take away personal sins committed after Baptism: first of all mortal sins, then venial. If the penitent has committed more than one mortal sin, they can only be remitted all at once. In fact, the remission of serious sin consists in the infusion of the sanctifying grace which has been lost, and grace is incompatible with any and every serious sin. Venial sins are to be regarded differently…”
and in ECCLESIA DE EUCHARISTIA
“If a Christian’s conscience is burdened by serious sin, then the path of penance through the sacrament of Reconciliation becomes necessary for full participation in the Eucharistic Sacrifice.”
And Pope Benedict XVI in his Catecheses with Children said:
"Only in that case, when you are in a state of “mortal” sin, in other words, grave (sin), is it necessary to go to confession before Communion. This is my first point. " vatican.va/holy_father/be…ildren_en.html
In another place he said:
“The faithful, in their turn, must seek to receive and to venerate the Most Holy Sacrament with piety and devotion, eager to welcome the Lord Jesus with faith, and having recourse, whenever necessary, to the sacrament of reconciliation so as to purify the soul from every grave sin.” vatican.va/holy_father/be…brazil_en.html
CCC1385: “Anyone conscious of a grave sin must receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before coming to communion.”
(we all know of course that the only sins that we are obliged to confess are “mortal sins” yet note that the Church often uses the term “grave sin” to mean mortal sin. Grave sin can not ever mean “venial sin” but only mortal sin. Though of course there can be a “grave matter” involved but lack of full knowledge or complete consent --hence no mortal sin/grave sin/serious sin is committed --this is where the confusion enters in often)
From: The Compendium of the Catechism issued by Pope Benedict XVI
"304. Which sins must be confessed?
1456
All grave sins not yet confessed, which a careful examination of conscience brings to mind, must be brought to the sacrament of Penance. The confession of serious sins is the only ordinary way to obtain forgiveness." (see also Canon Law …the term is used there too).
- What is required to receive Holy Communion?
1415
To receive Holy Communion one must be fully incorporated into the Catholic Church and be in the state of grace, that is, not conscious of being in mortal sin. Anyone who is conscious of having committed a grave sin must first receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before going to Communion.
(note that one used BOTH to mean the same thing in the same paragraph… for variety in use of language in writing…one will find it is the same in say Latin.)
“However, it must be remembered that the church, guided by faith in this great sacrament, teaches that no Christian who is conscious of grave sin can receive the eucharist before having obtained God’s forgiveness.”
St. Pope John Paul II Reconciliatio et Paenitentia 17
And in a speech from St. Pope John Paul II
“The sacrament of Penance is meant to take away personal sins committed after Baptism: first of all mortal sins, then venial. If the penitent has committed more than one mortal sin, they can only be remitted all at once. In fact, the remission of serious sin consists in the infusion of the sanctifying grace which has been lost, and grace is incompatible with any and every serious sin. Venial sins are to be regarded differently…”
and in ECCLESIA DE EUCHARISTIA
“If a Christian’s conscience is burdened by serious sin, then the path of penance through the sacrament of Reconciliation becomes necessary for full participation in the Eucharistic Sacrifice.”
And Pope Benedict XVI in his Catecheses with Children said:
"Only in that case, when you are in a state of “mortal” sin, in other words, grave (sin), is it necessary to go to confession before Communion. This is my first point. " vatican.va/holy_father/be…ildren_en.html
In another place he said:
“The faithful, in their turn, must seek to receive and to venerate the Most Holy Sacrament with piety and devotion, eager to welcome the Lord Jesus with faith, and having recourse, whenever necessary, to the sacrament of reconciliation so as to purify the soul from every grave sin.” vatican.va/holy_father/be…brazil_en.html
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Vico
Guest
There is a subtlety here, in that the* full knowledge* required is of “the sinful character of the act” rather than the gravity of the sinful act. CCC1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.
1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.
And from Catholic Answers: One can have misgivings, regrets, mixed feelings, et cetera and still give deliberate consent to an action. Similarly, one does not have to know with metaphysical certitude that a given act is gravely sinful. Lesser degrees of knowledge will also count—again, the degree of knowledge needed for an authentically human act is the key.
catholic.com/quickquestions/if-someone-is-unsure-about-whether-a-sin-is-mortal-or-not-doesnt-that-mean-it-isnt-mo
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simpleas
Guest
Mortal sins[edit]
The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) defines these sins as grave matter:[24]
(This is not necessarily all of the possible grave matters.) Abortion (any formal cooperation in it)
Adulation of another’s grave faults if it makes one an accomplice in another’s vices or grave sins, but it is not grave when it only seeks to be agreeable, to avoid evil, to meet a need, or to obtain legitimate advantages
Adultery
Agnosticism
Atheism
Bestiality
Blasphemy
Cheating unless the damage inflicted is so small that one who suffers it cannot reasonably consider it significant[25]
Defrauding a worker of his wages
Deliberate failure to go to mass on holy days of obligation unless excused for a serious reason (for example illness or to care for infants) or dispensed by one’s own pastor[26]
Divorce (If civil divorce, which cannot do anything to the spiritual marriage in the eyes of God, remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the protection of inheritance, or the care of the children it is not a sin.)[27]
Using drugs unless on strictly therapeutic grounds
Endangering their own and others’ safety by drunkenness or a love of speed on the road, at sea or in the air
Envy (if to the level of wishing grave harm to another)
Euthanasia
Extortion
Extreme anger (at the level of truly and deliberately desiring to seriously hurt or kill someone)
False allegations
Fornication
Hatred of a neighbor to the point of deliberately desiring him or her great harm
Idolatry
Incest
Lying (the gravity is measured by “the truth it deforms, the circumstances, the intentions of the one who lies, and the harm suffered by its victims”[28] )
Masturbation (The gravity is measured by conditions of anxiety, force of acquired habit, and/or emotional immaturity.)
Murder and co-operation in murder (except when done in self-defense or defense of others when there is no other way). Abortion and euthanasia as well as acceptance by human society of murderous famines without trying to fix them are included as murder. “Unintentional killing is not morally imputable. But one is not exonerated from grave offense if, without proportionate reasons, he has acted in a way that brings about someone’s death, even without the intention to do so.[29]
Perjury and false oaths
Polygamy
Pornography
Prostitution “While it is always gravely sinful to engage in prostitution, the imputability of the offense can be attenuated by destitution, blackmail, or social pressure.” [30]
Rape
Refusing or withholding a just wage
Sacrilege
Scandal (deliberately causing someone to sin gravely)
Suicide “Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.” We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.” [31]
Taking advantage of the poor
Terrorism that threatens, wounds and kills indiscriminately
Unfair wagers and cheating at games unless the damage is unusually light
The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) defines these sins as grave matter:[24]
(This is not necessarily all of the possible grave matters.) Abortion (any formal cooperation in it)
Adulation of another’s grave faults if it makes one an accomplice in another’s vices or grave sins, but it is not grave when it only seeks to be agreeable, to avoid evil, to meet a need, or to obtain legitimate advantages
Adultery
Agnosticism
Atheism
Bestiality
Blasphemy
Cheating unless the damage inflicted is so small that one who suffers it cannot reasonably consider it significant[25]
Defrauding a worker of his wages
Deliberate failure to go to mass on holy days of obligation unless excused for a serious reason (for example illness or to care for infants) or dispensed by one’s own pastor[26]
Divorce (If civil divorce, which cannot do anything to the spiritual marriage in the eyes of God, remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the protection of inheritance, or the care of the children it is not a sin.)[27]
Using drugs unless on strictly therapeutic grounds
Endangering their own and others’ safety by drunkenness or a love of speed on the road, at sea or in the air
Envy (if to the level of wishing grave harm to another)
Euthanasia
Extortion
Extreme anger (at the level of truly and deliberately desiring to seriously hurt or kill someone)
False allegations
Fornication
Hatred of a neighbor to the point of deliberately desiring him or her great harm
Idolatry
Incest
Lying (the gravity is measured by “the truth it deforms, the circumstances, the intentions of the one who lies, and the harm suffered by its victims”[28] )
Masturbation (The gravity is measured by conditions of anxiety, force of acquired habit, and/or emotional immaturity.)
Murder and co-operation in murder (except when done in self-defense or defense of others when there is no other way). Abortion and euthanasia as well as acceptance by human society of murderous famines without trying to fix them are included as murder. “Unintentional killing is not morally imputable. But one is not exonerated from grave offense if, without proportionate reasons, he has acted in a way that brings about someone’s death, even without the intention to do so.[29]
Perjury and false oaths
Polygamy
Pornography
Prostitution “While it is always gravely sinful to engage in prostitution, the imputability of the offense can be attenuated by destitution, blackmail, or social pressure.” [30]
Rape
Refusing or withholding a just wage
Sacrilege
Scandal (deliberately causing someone to sin gravely)
Suicide “Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.” We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.” [31]
Taking advantage of the poor
Terrorism that threatens, wounds and kills indiscriminately
Unfair wagers and cheating at games unless the damage is unusually light
B
Bookcat
Guest
What I noted though is* certainly* the case.
But -Yes one needs grave matter, full knowledge and deliberate consent – to commit a grave sin (mortal sin/ serious sin - all referring to the same sin).
The Church uses the terms to refer to the same sin -be it on the objective level “murder is a mortal sin/grave sin/grave” or on the subjective level “I committed a mortal sin/grave sin/serious sin -for there was grave matter, full knowledge and complete consent”.
(or and “a lustful thought is a grave sin/mortal sin/serious sin but I am did not commit a grave sin/mortal sin/serious sin/grave sin when that thought happened for I did not give complete consent”)
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Boswell
Guest
I’m not sure that the sin would be a Mortal sin if one didn’t realize it. From the CCC: 1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.”
B
Bookcat
Guest
Not “rather” but as one of the components of committed mortal/grave/serious sin. I think you left out the word “just” there.
One needs all three together -grave matter, full knowledge and deliberate consent to* commit *a mortal sin/grave sin/serious sin.
(the terms all refer to the same sin -be it objectively as in “murder is a mortal sin/grave sin/serious sin” or subjectively as in “I committed a mortal sin/grave sin/serious sin cause there was grave matter, full knowledge and complete consent”)
B
Bookcat
Guest
A nice summary regarding mortal (grave/serious) and venial sin
The Compendium issued by Pope Benedict XVI
1874
One commits a mortal sin when there are simultaneously present: grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent. This sin destroys charity in us, deprives us of sanctifying grace, and, if unrepented, leads us to the eternal death of hell. It can be forgiven in the ordinary way by means of the sacraments of Baptism and of Penance or Reconciliation.
1875
One commits a venial sin, which is essentially different from a mortal sin, when the matter involved is less serious or, even if it is grave, when full knowledge or complete consent are absent. Venial sin does not break the covenant with God but it weakens charity and manifests a disordered affection for created goods. It impedes the progress of a soul in the exercise of the virtues and in the practice of moral good. It merits temporal punishment which purifies.
Each of the faithful who has reached the age of discretion is bound to confess his or her mortal sins at least once a year and always before receiving Holy Communion.
vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html
The Compendium issued by Pope Benedict XVI
- When does one commit a mortal sin?
1874
One commits a mortal sin when there are simultaneously present: grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent. This sin destroys charity in us, deprives us of sanctifying grace, and, if unrepented, leads us to the eternal death of hell. It can be forgiven in the ordinary way by means of the sacraments of Baptism and of Penance or Reconciliation.
- When does one commit a venial sin?
1875
One commits a venial sin, which is essentially different from a mortal sin, when the matter involved is less serious or, even if it is grave, when full knowledge or complete consent are absent. Venial sin does not break the covenant with God but it weakens charity and manifests a disordered affection for created goods. It impedes the progress of a soul in the exercise of the virtues and in the practice of moral good. It merits temporal punishment which purifies.
- When is a person obliged to confess mortal sins?
Each of the faithful who has reached the age of discretion is bound to confess his or her mortal sins at least once a year and always before receiving Holy Communion.
vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html
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