People shouldn’t be discouraged. I know its hard, but the only way for abuses to end is if we actually do something. Non-stop complaining on CAF won’t change a thing. Running away from parishes also won’t change a thing. If we expect change, we should effect change, not run away from it.
how can i be guilt of something that a priest has refused to listen? i have talked to priests about the abuses in the Church. what i got was hatefull response and the priest just walked out on me. and i was respectfull. but he became angry because priests dont like to be corrected.
I’ve had rude, flippant, and angry responses from priests, too, but we are still obligated to voice concerns, especially in the case of such a grave abuse!
What’s sad is that my diocese is bursting at the seems with abuse(Orange, B. T Brown) and who is in charge of our Liturgy for the Diocese, NOT a priest, a woman no less (meaning no possibility of becoming a priest) who is allowed to dress in liturgical robes no less and issued a letter to disobey Rome when the letter came out that the Priest is to wash and rinse the items used in Communion.
Because when one sees an abuse and recognizes an abuse and allows it to continue gives their consent to the abuse. Isn’t it a crime in the US to witness a crime and not report it? Same case here. You don’t do anything, you’re guilty as well. Also don’t forget the saying, that for evil to succeed it only needs enough good men to do nothing.
Many saints has suffered far worse for our faith. What we’re asked of is not much. Benedictgal gave a good example of what happened with her. It came to a point the priest did not talk to her for a month. But in the end, she became trusted and respected and were able to affect change. We shouldn’t give up at the first sign of trouble. Jesus asks us to love our neightbor. How is that loving your neighbor if you leave them to wallow in error?
Unless you’re pouring in thousands of dollars a year into a parish, stopping supporting a parish on an individual level doesn’t change anything. There are far more people who either quit the faith or become Protestant, but most parishes would live on. How are you any different than them from a parish contrubtion point of view? Remember, you were given the knowledge and the faith, much more is exepcted from you than the next guy who is blissfully ignorant of the abuses.
Lets get things straight. Leavened bread will NOT invalidate a Mass. The Eucharist is the same in whatever rite. If leavened bread is valid matter somewhere within the Church (which it is), then its valid matter everywhere.
Do you go to a Protestant Church? You’re better going to a church with real wafers as the Last Supper was the feast of unleavened bread ie. bread without yeast so it should be wafer or flat bread like matzos. This bible says yeast was identified with sin in the Bible, ie beware the yeast of the Pharisees and the yeast of Herod.At a place where I go to mass we use actual bread for the Eucharist as opposed to wafers.
Unfortunately, one of the disadvantages of using real bread is that it is very easy for there to be crumbs that fall over the place during communion.
There have been multiple times where there have been crumbs that fall on the carpet at these masses. I sit in the front, so it’s very easy for me to see them. I usually notice it after everyone has received and we are waiting for the alter to be cleared.
Now I usually get reeeeeally scrupulous about this. The reason is because of the fact that, while it is very easy for me to simply pick up the crumbs myself and either eat them or give them to the priest, the fact of the matter is that 1) I get so incredibly frustrated that the EMHC’s and the priests are not more careful about this and 2) I get scrupulous about whether I picked up all the crumbs or not. There are usually other substances in the carpet that I sometimes mistake for crumbs, and it is very hard for me to distinguish between what is and what is not actual Eucharist (especially since it falls into a carpet-like material). So I end up scrupling over everything and feeling like I might sin if I don’t do a somewhat-thorough “inspection” of the carpet after mass.
My question is this: how much of a moral obligation do I have in this matter? Should I just stop sitting in the front so that I don’t see this? Should I just pick up stuff that is obviously the Eucharist and not scruple about other “particles”? Please help
Dude - no need to scream and get all red in the face!!
We can all read just fine, and everyone here understands this could be a very serious situation. Let’s just calm down now and get the right information for the OP so he knows how to proceed.Now, now. Lets not forget our Byzantine Rite bretheren use leavened bread
The “protocol” for addressing abuse is to speak with the pastor; (if negative response) inform the bishop, including as much detail as possible, including any response from the pastor; (if negative response) write the CDW, attaching a copy of any replies thus far. benedictgirl has the address memorized I believe, or it is readily searchable. If the pastor overreacts then it may be a good idea to find another parish while pursuing resolution to the issue.
Yes but why do anything that will place doubts into their parishioners’ minds? A visitor to that church might not even recognize it as a Catholic Mass. Can you blame them for not coming back?
I’m just stating the fact that leavened bread does not invalidate the Mass nor the Sacrament. Nothing more, nothing less.
This doesn’t include all leavened bread. Didn’t we (not you necessarily) just have a dispute over Wonderbread on another thread as to whether it’s valid or not? If there is a doubt as to its validity, there’s a problem.
I think that falls in line with the OP’s question.I think we owe it to the OP to keep the thread on topic, no?
Leavened bread is made to rise either with yeast or with a chemical leavener like baking powder. As ConstantineTG explained, in the Roman Rite leavened bread is not permitted, but would still be valid matter if used in contravention of the rules. (Please take 10 seconds to at least Google this before quoting canon law that you don’t understand in giant red letters, thanks. I’ve had to explain it like three times in the last week.
)Leavened means it has an agent that causes it to rise: ie baking soda or yeast If it is only flour (some baking flours have baking soda in them), then it would be licit matter, however, the crumbliness of the bread is gravely problematic.
Redemptionis Sacramentum said: