Eucharist Is Magic?

[Sophie111]

Do note he called it a “miracle of faith”.

So he is nicely signaling that he acknowledges it is not really a proper miracle (of the senses) isn’t he?
He also interchangably calls it a “mystery” as well.

So he is well aware of the proper definition of “miracle” but those signals seem to be lost on you.

 

[Thrstypirate]

To a lay, non-catholic person, the word “magic” is probably interchangeable with any supernatural act. The Holy Spirit uses His “magic” to change the Eucharist; Jesus used his “magic” to change water into wine, God created the Earth using His “magic” god powers.

Is this correct? No. Is the meaning behind it correct? Yeah, probably. To them any supernatural act, even divine, would be “magic.”

 

[Vico]

Do note he called it a “miracle of faith”.

So he is nicely signaling that he acknowledges it is not really a proper miracle (of the senses) isn’t he?
He also interchangably calls it a “mystery” as well.

So he is well aware of the proper definition of “miracle” but those signals seem to be lost on you.

The word sacrament is the sign of something sacred and hidden (mystery), used in its broadest sense. In the sacrament of the Eucharist there is transubstantiation, which requires divine power to make the accidents appear different than the substance, in consecration. The species are perceptible by the senses yet they are not what they appear to be since there substance is not bread and wine. In another way there is multi-location as in the multiplication of the loaves.

Fr. Hardon wrote: “In general a miracle is any effect perceptible by the senses, produced by God which surpasses the powers of nature.”

http://www.therealpresence.org/archives/Miracles/Miracles_001.htm

The Holy Father St. Pope Paul VI refers to the miracle:

Ne autem hunc praesentiae modum, qui leges naturae praetergreditur et miraculum omnium in suo genere maximum efficit (Cf Litt. Encycl. Mirae caritatis; Acta Leonis XIII , XXII, 1902-1903, p. 123), perperam aliquis intellegat, docentis et orantis Ecclesiae vocem docili mente sequamur oportet.

https://w2.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/la/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_03091965_mysterium.html

To avoid any misunderstanding of this type of presence, which goes beyond the laws of nature and constitutes the greatest miracle of its kind, (Cf. Encyclical letter Mirae caritatis ; Acta Leonis XIII , XXII (1902-1903), 123.) we have to listen with docility to the voice of the teaching and praying Church

http://w2.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_03091965_mysterium.html

 

[Usagi]

As others have noted, while transubstantiation is an extraordinary use of God’s power to produce results not found in nature, we usually reserve “Eucharistic miracle” for the rare times when something perceptible to the senses does occur.

 

[Victorygirl]

Thanks everyone! Great stuff!

 

[Sophie111]

I no longer know why you are continuing this particular discussion sorry.

If you agree that in english “miracle” unqualified refers to a wonder that is perceptible by the senses (ie to all men faith or no faith) then its difficult to see how the Eucharist may be called a miracle…let alone “magic”.

Therefore by “Eucharistic miracle” we would really be referring to something like the Lanciano Eucharistic Miracle which is not related to transubstantiation at all other than that the sacred host is the subject of the actual miracle that is perceptible to the senses (presence of recognisable blood).

I think this point has run its course.

 

[LateCatholic]

claiming the idea of the Eucharist is actually based on magic.

Define “Magic”.

The guest was probably referring to the Eucharist being actual flesh and blood. Not symbolic. Actual flesh and blood.
If “magic” is temporary cessation of the physical laws, resulting in miraculous effects - then sure, it’s ‘magic’. But ‘magic’ tends to have bad connotations. Define it first before you get worked up about it.

 

[Vico]

…

it is really a proper miracle

 

[Gorgias]

I once heard that the words, “Hocus pocus,” often used by stage magicians, is a parody of the Latin words said by Catholic priests over the bread when they confect the Eucharist, “Hoc est corpus meum” (This is my body).

That was my first thought, too. Maybe the podcasters heard someone mention it and got it backwards – that “the Eucharist is ‘magic’” instead of “magicians appropriated some Latin for themselves.”

Otherwise, I’d say that they’re (unwittingly?) giving credence to the notion that gave rise to ‘hocus pocus’; namely, that some Protestants were making a parody of the confection of the Eucharist by priests.

 

[TheOldColonel]

This is a longstanding accusation levied by those who do not believe in the Eucharist or are otherwise willfully blasphemous and irreliguous. It’s nothing new. Its nothing insightful. Its just a mean spirited effort to disrespect what others hold sacred. Indeed, the phrase “hocus-pocus,” associated with magic acts, is derived from the sacrilegious mocking of the traditional latin words of consecration “hoc est corpus meum” (…this is my body).

 

[Victorygirl]

LateCatholic.

I’m not worked up about it. I just asked a question. Sheesh

 

[MonteRCMS]

Mystical.

And miraculous.

 

[Sophie111]

I once heard that the words, “Hocus pocus,” often used by stage magicians, is a parody of the Latin words said by Catholic priests over the bread when they confect the Eucharist, “Hoc est corpus meum” (This is my body). (source)

Thats interesting.
But then it should really me hocus copus I think.

 

[Sophie111]

As others have noted, while transubstantiation is an extraordinary use of God’s power to produce results not found in nature, we usually reserve “Eucharistic miracle” for the rare times when something perceptible to the senses does occur.

Indeed.
“Miracle of faith” is likely the more accurate way of putting it.

And as “magic” also always involves astonishment of the senses transubstantiation can hardly be magic either. it is just a form of disrespect to persons of faith as @TheOldColonel says.

 

[fhansen]

Was listening to H3 podcast (some kind of hipster thing.) one of the guests was claiming the idea of the Eucharist is actually based on magic.

I know scripture says Jesus said this is his body and do this in memory of Him so not sure why they think it’s magic.

My question is - has anyone heard this before? If you have, can you explain why it is thought to be and why it isn’t?

And sorry if this is in wrong category, wasn’t sure where to ask.

Thanks

That’s just anti-Catholic nonsense. The change is based on grace, God providing a simple physical means for us to partake of/commune with Him here on earth. We believe in His reality and power.