Eucharist question on how important it is

[JonNC]

Your question stated the Holy Spirit only. Holy Communion is a direct sharing and participation between Jesus and the Laity - of course the Holy Spirit is involved as the Holy Spirit is involved with the Catholic church. But that was not a part of your question. Communion is a DIRECT relationship between you and Jesus as He stated at the Last Supper. Jesus IS the Holy Spirit as you should know, but separate as He is separate from God. You should do more reading on the Holy Spirit I think.

Lutherans would agree. So much so that the confessions insist on the laity receiving both the body and the blood, as He said.

 

[Usagi]

The Holy Spirit can be summoned on command by a human (priest). How can that power be granted to a human being by God?

The same way God could grant Moses the power to command the sea to part (by God’s power), or Elijah the power to raise the dead (definitely by God’s power).

The priests today, like those men, are doing what God told them to do, and praying to God to do His part as He promised. God set up the sacraments and their ministers follow His script. He’s not obeying their petty whims. They are carrying out His command.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

Totally awesome.

 

[joecaro]

The only problem or misconception suffered by the Lutheran faith . . . it is man made and not formed by Jesus as the “Universal” (Catholic) church was. Therefore, there is only a symbolic communion - not the actual transubstantiation of the Holy Host into the body and blood of Jesus -no matter what they claim, because of the rebellion of Martin Luther and his demands. Actually, before Vatican II Catholics only received the Communion Host without the wine.

 

[adamhovey1988]

Actually, before Vatican II Catholics only received the Communion Host without the wine.

We still don’t receive wine, we receive Jesus. Also, that’s not entirely accurate, Eastern Catholics to the best of my knowledge, have never had a Prohibition against receiving under both species, as intinction seems to be the norm.

 

[OddBird]

I think you’re mixing two things here. I’ll try to be as clear as I can. You made this assertion :

the Catholic sacrament of Holy Communion has little to do with the Holy Spirit

Which, as several posters, including myself, explained above, is not true. There wouldn’t be a consecration at all without the Holy Spirit. A sacrament has everything to do with the Holy Spirit.

Now, if what you mean is that there is an objective presence of the Lord in the Eucharist - as opposed to what some Protestant traditions say, that the Eucharist is bread and wine but that the Holy Spirit can help you commune through them to the Body and Blood of Jesus - then I would agree. But again, saying that the Holy Spirit plays little part in the Eucharist is not true. He is the one who gives us the gift of that objective presence.

Jesus IS the Holy Spirit as you should know, but separate as He is separate from God.

This does not sound like orthodox Trinitarian theology. The Triune God is one God in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Father is distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit, the Son is distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is distinct from the Father and the Son.

Jesus is neither separate from God nor is He the Holy Spirit.

 

[JonNC]

The only problem or misconception suffered by the Lutheran faith . . . it is man made and not formed by Jesus as the “Universal” (Catholic) church was.

That’s a polemical argument that doesn’t advance the conversation. Nor did it respond to the tongue-in-cheek point I made.

Jesus as the “Universal” (Catholic) church was. Therefore, there is only a symbolic communion - not the actual transubstantiation of the Holy Host into the body and blood of Jesus -no matter what they claim,

Of course a Catholic should make that claim. You know fully well, though, that we disagree.

Actually, before Vatican II Catholics only received the Communion Host without the wine.

Yes. That was the point of my lighthearted jab at your previous post.

 

[joecaro]

You are correct! Each is different and each is part of the whole: God is the whole, Jesus is the Word and the Holy Spirit is the breath.
Jesus alone, is the presence in the Holy Eucharist as He was the sacrificial lamb. Other versions of Christian religion can only Symbolize Holy Communion. Only within the Catholic religion founded by Jesus Himself, will Holy Communion actually become the body and blood. The Holy Spirit has nothing to do with transubstantiation. I have no idea what you mean by “objective presence” relative to the Sacrament of Communion which is the ultimate sacrifice of the Son of Man. It does not involve the Holy Spirit. The Gift is offered by Jesus alone.

 

[OddBird]

The Holy Spirit has nothing to do with transubstantiation.

I don’t understand what you mean by that, honestly.

Here is what the CCC has to say :

1412 The essential signs of the Eucharistic sacrament are wheat bread and grape wine, on which the blessing of the Holy Spirit is invoked and the priest pronounces the words of consecration spoken by Jesus during the Last Supper: “This is my body which will be given up for you… This is the cup of my blood…”

(Bolding mine)

I have no idea what you mean by “objective presence” relative to the Sacrament of Communion

I mean that under the consecrated species, the Lord is objectively present whether you believe it or not (as opposed to subjectively present, which would mean that He is present only to those who recognize Him).

Edited to add this :

1105 The Epiclesis (“invocation upon”) is the intercession in which the priest begs the Father to send the Holy Spirit, the Sanctifier, so that the offerings may become the body and blood of Christ and that the faithful by receiving them, may themselves become a living offering to God.
1106 Together with the anamnesis, the epiclesis is at the heart of each sacramental celebration, most especially of the Eucharist:
You ask how the bread becomes the Body of Christ, and the wine . . . the Blood of Christ I shall tell you: the Holy Spirit comes upon them and accomplishes what surpasses every word and thought . . . Let it be enough for you to understand that it is by the Holy Spirit, just as it was of the Holy Virgin and by the Holy Spirit that the Lord, through and in himself, took flesh.

From the CCC.

 

[joecaro]

Why do you think that the Holy Spirit can be “summoned” as if mankind had such power. You “summon” a butler, you can (sometimes) summon your children. How can a person (Priest or not) SUMMON GOD?? It can’t be done by anyone! Even Jesus can’t "summon"God!! He can pray to him, He can ask God to intercede . . but NEVER SUMMON! There is no such thing as to "summon God, or, "“summon Jesus.” You should read and read the Bible. By the way, . . .MOSES DIDN’T PART THE SEA -GOD DID!

 

[PilgrimMichelangelo]

You have been given various answers on this thread that clearly rebut your position as contrary to universal teaching of the Church in her two-thousand year history. All Christians who have apostolic succession and a liturgical life show in their theology that the Holy Spirit can be called upon to change the elements of bread and wine into Holy Communion.

Reading the Bible is good, but reading the Holy Fathers of the Church to help you interpret the Bible correctly would be better.

Peace be with you.

 

[George720]

Communion is a DIRECT relationship between you and Jesus as He stated at the Last Supper.

Indeed it is, because the Church IS the very BODY of Christ!

Jesus IS the Holy Spirit

Jesus is God…

So is the Holy Spirit…

The Gift is offered by Jesus alone.

Jesus is NEVER alone…

You should read and read the Bible

Which version(s) of the Bible do you read?

MOSES DIDN’T PART THE SEA -GOD DID!

You are correct, and according to Paul, the Israelites were baptized into Moses, remember?

Moses was a TYPOS of Christ…

How can a person (Priest or not) SUMMON GOD??

When he is acting in o0bedience to God in the Body of Christ, the Church…

Is your name really Joe?

Mine is really George…

geo

 

[KL12345]

Thank you. All the responses on this thread are very enlightening. As an Eastern Orthodox Christian, there are many differences in the sacraments, but fundamentally hold same importance in our faith in Christ.

I plan to read and understand this better to deepen my faith.