Eucharist & Relationship with Jesus

[beckycmarie]

Split from another thread that was going off topic, but a topic worth discussing:

How can a real relationship with Jesus Himself be better than taking communion and just feeling peaceful for a while about it? You can stir yourself up at how awesome it is all you like… I’ve BEEN there! For the last 32 years of my life I have been participating in that communion with you… the last year of my life however has been the most amazing thing, talking and communing with God’s holy spirit in me. I know I probably won’t change your minds, but I realised that Christ’s sacrifice was DONE. Meaning God’s grace is a free gift, I could be forgiven of all my sin in the blink of an eye and that’s it! Yes, in this world nothing can be given for free… we all ask… what’s the catch? Surely God would want something in return for this amazing gift, but He doesn’t. God’s grace is a free gift that He alone gives when you trust Him by faith to give it to you. (Eph 2: 4)

I pray you too find this grace one day.

Myredeemer lives, my answer for you boils down to the words of Jesus himself:

While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, “Take and eat; this is my body.” Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins. Matthew 26:26-28

Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert, but they died; this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world."

The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?”

Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever."

These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum. Then many of his disciples who were listening said, “This saying is hard; who can accept it?”

Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, “Does this shock you? What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.” Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him. And he said, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.”

As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him. Jesus then said to the Twelve, “Do you also want to leave?”

Simon Peter answered him, "Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. John 6:48-69

To deny that the Real Presence in the Eucharist is to call Jesus a liar. Notice that when he said you must eat his flesh and drink his blood, he didn’t stop many of the disciples from turning away from him. He didn’t say, “whoa whoa I didn’t mean it like that, it’s just symbolic.” No. He meant what he said, and he knew that some people then, and now, would refuse to accept it.

Will you continue to be among those disciples who turn your back on him, my redeemerlives?

CatholicsComeHome

 

[Muzhik]

I just have to shake my head sometimes. Many protestants accuse Catholics of not following the bible; yet when we point to scripture to explain why we believe what we believe, many of them say, “Well it doesn’t mean THAT!”

<><

 

[MarieVeronica]

yet when we point to scripture to explain why we believe what we believe, many of them say, “Well it doesn’t mean THAT!”
<><

Thank You Lord, for giving us the teaching Magisterium of the Holy Catholic Church… so that “little ones” like me, have no worries about what is true… and what is false. I praise and glorify Your Name, Lord… for Your Mercy.

 

[myredeemerlives]

So you choose to ignore the part where I said that I too once believed that but now have a real relationship with Jesus?

 

[beckycmarie]

So you choose to ignore the part where I said that I too once believed that but now have a real relationship with Jesus?

You can have a relationship with Jesus and not be Catholic, but you’re missing out on the depth that your relationship could be with the Eucharist.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

So you choose to ignore the part where I said that I too once believed that but now have a real relationship with Jesus?

Are you saying that those who DO believe in communion (as per the Church [Catholic]) DON’T have a real relationship with Jesus?

 

[myredeemerlives]

YES!

You’ve heard the part in the bible where Jesus says “depart from me you worker of eniquity I never knew you”? If you think that Jesus knows you because you partook in holy communion, you are very sadly mistaken.

 

[beckycmarie]

YES!

You’ve heard the part in the bible where Jesus says “depart from me you worker of eniquity I never knew you”? If you think that Jesus knows you because you partook in holy communion, you are very sadly mistaken.

How do you explain John 6:48-69?

 

[myredeemerlives]

Jesus was being symbolic.

Jhn 6:58 “This is the bread which came down from heaven–not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

Jesus referred to actual bread and said that those who ate it died, but then referred to a different kind of bread that will cause you to live forever. Jesus is the one who gives eternal life and He’s referring to Himself, not actual bread.

 

[thistle]

Jesus was being symbolic.

Jhn 6:58 “This is the bread which came down from heaven–not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

Jesus referred to actual bread and said that those who ate it died, but then referred to a different kind of bread that will cause you to live forever. Jesus is the one who gives eternal life and He’s referring to Himself, not actual bread.

You must be living in fantasyland. The Eucharist is the real presence of Jesus who told us so.

48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert, but they died; 50 this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world." 52 The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?” 53 Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. 58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.”

 

[beckycmarie]

Jesus was being symbolic.

Jhn 6:58 “This is the bread which came down from heaven–not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

Jesus referred to actual bread and said that those who ate it died, but then referred to a different kind of bread that will cause you to live forever. Jesus is the one who gives eternal life and He’s referring to Himself, not actual bread.

A perfect example of what Muzhik said.

I just have to shake my head sometimes. Many protestants accuse Catholics of not following the bible; yet when we point to scripture to explain why we believe what we believe, many of them say, “Well it doesn’t mean THAT!”

<><

 

[Ohwesty]

Jesus was being symbolic.

Jhn 6:58 “This is the bread which came down from heaven–not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

Jesus referred to actual bread and said that those who ate it died, but then referred to a different kind of bread that will cause you to live forever. Jesus is the one who gives eternal life and He’s referring to Himself, not actual bread.

The Jews of Jesus’ time knew (for the most part) when Jesus was speaking literally and when He was speaking metaphorically. They did not react violently when Jesus said “I am the Way” or “I am the Sheep gate.” They knew He wasn’t a literal gate. But in John 6 when Jesus said “I am the Bread of Life” and told them in very graphic terms to “feed” (chew–gnaw) on His Flesh and drink His Blood, there was a much different reaction.

So, the fact is, the Jews took Him literally. Many of His disciples broke away and stopped following Him. You will note that Jesus did not offer an explanation. He would have been a cruel and heartless teacher indeed had He allowed His disciples to leave due to a simple misunderstanding.

As for who has the closer relationship, St. John of the Cross spoke about the “mode of the receiver.” The disposition of the heart of the communicant has everything to do with his personal growth in holiness and the deepening of his relationship with Christ. He who is not disposed still receives the true Body and Blood of Jesus; he still receives grace, but it does not benefit him as much. In fact, if he receives unworthily he commits a sacrilege, and eats and drinks a judgment onto himself (1 Corinthians: 11-29).

We do not superstitiously believe that Holy Communion is like a coin in a bubble gum machine. I slip a coin in and immediately receive a reward. No, it doesn’t work that way. Therefore, in your defense, it is possible that a Christian who communes with Jesus on a purely spiritual level, can have as deep a relationship, if not a deeper relationship, than the one who communicates sacramentally. But the one who communicates both spiritually and sacramentally, does better. After all, the Eucharist was mandated by Christ; it is the New Covenant sign of our unity with Him and each other. Anyone who claims to be living the Gospel should not be ignoring the table of the Lord.

• Westy

 

[myredeemerlives]

Well there are two opinions on this… you say it’s the real presence in the communion, we believe that communion is a memorial of the work Jesus did on the cross to remember what we have been forgiven from. Our church partakes of the body and blood together, so we do partake in communion.

One of us is right, one of us is wrong. You take it literally, we take it as Jesus speaking symbolically. Now if you say you are correct, then you also need to show where in the bible Jesus says that He needs to keep sacrificing Himself for forgiveness of sins.

We believe that when Jesus said “It is finished” that’s exactly what He meant.

 

[thistle]

Well there are two opinions on this… you say it’s the real presence in the communion, we believe that communion is a memorial of the work Jesus did on the cross to remember what we have been forgiven from. Our church partakes of the body and blood together, so we do partake in communion.

One of us is right, one of us is wrong. You take it literally, we take it as Jesus speaking symbolically. Now if you say you are correct, then you also need to show where in the bible Jesus says that **He needs to keep sacrificing Himself for forgiveness of sins. **
We believe that when Jesus said “It is finished” that’s exactly what He meant.

You obviously have no clue what the Mass is about. There is no new sacrifice every time. Read the article below and then come back with any questions you might have.

catholic.com/thisrock/1990/9006chap.asp

 

[Ohwesty]

Now if you say you are correct, then you also need to show where in the bible Jesus says that **He needs to keep sacrificing Himself for forgiveness of sins. **

If you were a Catholic for 32 years, you should know that’s not the Church’s proper understanding of the Eucharist. Christ’s sacrifice* is* once for all. It *is *finished. The Mass is the *same sacrifice of Calvary *made present on our altars in an unbloody manner. When we assist at Mass and partake of communion we enter into Calvary. This event is outside of time. The Mass is the fulfillment of the Passover and the foreshadowing of the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. The Mass is both the Temple and the Synagogue, the place of proclaiming God’s Word and the “mercy seat” of atonement for sin.

St. Paul said, “For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes.” (1 Corinthians 11:26). There was never a debate in Church history on the Real Presence until Martin Luther. The Latin Church, the Greek Churches, and the Early Church Fathers of both the East and the West never debated the Real Presence, or the propitiation of sin on our altars. To this day the Catholic and Orthodox churches perpetuate this truth handed down from the apostles (and from east to west a perfect offering is made).

What you and I agree on, is that the atonement for sin is the work of Christ on the Cross. What we disagree on, is the manner in which we receive atonement. Catholics believe that Christ works primarily through His Church, her teaching magisterium, her liturgy and her sacraments. We believe that all graces necessary for salvation flow from the Sacrifice of Calvary through the Mass, and in a mysterious way benefit all of mankind, even those who are unaware of the source.

• Westy

 

[runandsew]

YES!

You’ve heard the part in the bible where Jesus says “depart from me you worker of eniquity I never knew you”? If you think that Jesus knows you because you partook in holy communion, you are very sadly mistaken.

I spend 2 hours a week before Jesus in adoration of the Blessed Sacrament. I spend that time in prayer with him, I am getting to know him very personally.

Also when I attend protestant church services on the many occasions I have attended, I admit that they have very nice music, uplifting sermons and nice fellowship, but I leave with an empty feeling, and I can only attribute that to Jesus not being present there in the Eucharist.

But it the sermons tickle your ears, then more power to you.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by myredeemerlives
So you choose to ignore the part where I said that I too once believed that but now have a real relationship with Jesus?

Quote: (CatsAndDogs):
Are you saying that those who DO believe in communion (as per the Church [Catholic]) DON’T have a real relationship with Jesus?​

YES!

You’ve heard the part in the bible where Jesus says “depart from me you worker of eniquity I never knew you”? If you think that Jesus knows you because you partook in holy communion, you are very sadly mistaken.

My intent with the question was:

Do you think that one who partakes of Catholic communion is ACTIVELY EXCLUDED (by their willful act of taking communion as the Church demands) from HAVING a relationship with Jesus?

Are ALL Catholics who take communion, who do actually believe that they are taking in the Body and Blood of Christ, going to hell because they don’t “have a relationship” (as you define that) with Jesus?

 

[danonwaveland]

Myredeemerlives,

God bless you on your journey. May His Holy Spirit lead you – and all of us – to the truth.

Two things: 1.) Please read “The Lamb’s Supper,” by Scott Hahn, an ex-Presbyterian minister who was a virulent anti-Catholic. His studies at Gordon Conwell seminary and his study of the early church fathers led him to look more closely at the mass. He found the Real Presence in the Eucharist and the fullness of truth in the Catholic Church. This book will help you understand; 2.) Most of the Catholics I know have a loving personal relationship with Jesus. I don’t know how you define a personal relationship, but I know my Lord is with me all the time. I speak to Him, knowing He listens, and I listen as best as I can (just like with my wife, I am working at being a better listener). I know He loves me to death – His – and I am trying to trust Him more fully every day. I am amazed at how much He trusts me and how willing He is to give me another chance day after day. The high point, though, is when He shares Himself with me body and soul, blood and divinity, in the Eucharist.

I guess I am amazed that you have the audacity to tell me that I don’t have a personal relationship with our Lord when you don’t know me and, even if you did, you certainly don’t know me as well as He does. If you were unable to find Him in the Catholic Church, it’s not because He isn’t there. He is there, but not everyone listens.

God bless,
Dan

 

[InLight247]

YES!

You’ve heard the part in the bible where Jesus says “depart from me you worker of eniquity I never knew you”? If you think that Jesus knows you because you partook in holy communion, you are very sadly mistaken.

I have been reading your posting and I am very puzzled.
It seems that you think receiving Holy Communion and having a personal relationship with Jesus are mutually exclusive. Where does that idea come from?

Actually Catholics must have good relationship with the Lord in order to worthily receive the Eucharist. Therefore, these two things should be mutually inclusive.

As Catholics, we not only have a spiritual relationship with the Lord, we are blessed with the physical relationship also. The Eucharist is the real body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ.
When we receive His Real Presence into our body, the union couldn’t be more intimate. So, we Catholics really have the double portion - both the physical and spiritual union. If this is not a close relationship, what is?

No Catholic ever says just because we receive the Communion, so Jesus know us. We know the Lord and the Lord know us by our daily walk with Him, through our prayers , Scripture readings, Church teachings, and Sacraments. Holy Communion is one of the seven Sacraments. We solidly build our relationship with the Lord through all the above. And Holy Communion makes the relationship even more concrete and profound.

 

[myredeemerlives]

The problem lies is that your worshipping the Eucharist as Jesus. So for you, partaking in the communion and believing that Jesus is present in the Eucharist is the extent of your relationship.

But what if Jesus is not physically present in the Eucharist? What kind of relationship do you have with Him then?

I’m not saying this as an insult to your beliefs but to challenge you in your thinking about what others believe to be true.