Eucharist & Relationship with Jesus

[Wyatt]

But what if Jesus is not physically present in the Eucharist? What kind of relationship do you have with Him then?

If Jesus is not present in the Eucharist, then that would mean He was a liar, and thus not the Son of God, and our faith would be in vain. Obviously that isn’t the case though.

 

[myredeemerlives]

Well, if there was no way that His words could be taken symbolically (which they can) that would be the case. However, since they are to be taken symbolically, Jesus isn’t a liar.

 

[Kenneth_Jones]

Well, if there was no way that His words could be taken symbolically (which they can) that would be the case. However, since they are to be taken symbolically, Jesus isn’t a liar.

Well, that sums it up then. You go take whatever you want from Scripture and interpret it however you wish. That’s pretty simple. Convenient, too.

On **my **side of the Looking Glass, however, I find it reassuring to lean on the Magisterium’s Tradition. I suppose that’s why it’s called a religion, though, eh?

Cheers,
Ken

 

[runandsew]

Well, if there was no way that His words could be taken symbolically (which they can) that would be the case. However, since they are to be taken symbolically, Jesus isn’t a liar.

You know, I might agree with you, but Jesus didn’t say: “This represents my body”, He said : “This is my body”. And He said "For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. "

St. John wrote the last statement in his Gospel, and he also passed on to others what he meant ( remember what St. Paul tells Timothy: “and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.”) , and that is why St. Ignatius (who was taught by St. John) writes :
“I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible” (Letter to the Romans 7:3 [A.D. 110]).

“Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes” (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2–7:1 [A.D. 110]).

(St. Ignatius doesn’t sound like he was taught that Jesus was speaking symbolically, it sound to me like St. John taught him that Jesus was being literal.)

And the fact that Eucharistic miracles have occurred and still occur (to a priest that I know personally), plus since I have spent several years before the Blessed Sacrament, I have to come to know in my heart that Jesus is truly, really, and substantially present under the appearances of bread and wine.

 

[tessi]

Well, if there was no way that His words could be taken symbolically (which they can) that would be the case. However, since they are to be taken symbolically, Jesus isn’t a liar.

To a blind person you can say that the sky is blue, but that blind person will never understand that concept of color. The presence of Jesus in the Eucharist is like the blue in the sky, you cannot understand.

 

[myredeemerlives]

To a blind person you can say that the sky is blue, but that blind person will never understand that concept of color. The presence of Jesus in the Eucharist is like the blue in the sky, you cannot understand.

That’s not a good argument, for all you know… you could be the blind person.

Do you think a person decieved by Satan would actually know they are? I wouldn’t be SO sure it’s me.

 

[tessi]

That’s not a good argument, for all you know

That’s what I mean.

There is no good argument.

You believe in Jesus and you know that you won’t convince any atheist by arguments. This is the same.

 

[Indyann]

That’s not a good argument, for all you know… you could be the blind person.

Do you think a person decieved by Satan would actually know they are? I wouldn’t be SO sure it’s me.

What you are not understanding is that the Catholic Faith is a gift from God.

I do not know why some have been chosen to have been born into this faith. That is a mystery.

But God desires that all be saved, and desires to bestow this “gift of faith” on all who are open to it.

 

[allhers]

The problem lies is that your worshipping the Eucharist as Jesus. So for you, partaking in the communion and believing that Jesus is present in the Eucharist is the extent of your relationship.

But what if Jesus is not physically present in the Eucharist? What kind of relationship do you have with Him then?

I’m not saying this as an insult to your beliefs but to challenge you in your thinking about what others believe to be true.

You know what is interesting? I can see where some people read things differently now. The first three words of your first sentence said it all. The problem lies------ read it this way…
The problem? Lies!!! You, and many others have been lied to.

You say that the problem lies in us worshipping the Eucharist as Jesus…etc, just read above for what you said, well, that isn’t the problem as far as we see it, we see it as the problem lies in that you listened to someone’s lies and walked away from Jesus, as He Himself said that He was present, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, it’s HIM, He said so, read all of John 6 prayfully. We simply believe HIM. “This is My Body”. He said so, we believe.

You know what else you said that isn’t true? You said that was the extent of our relationship with HIM, it isn’t. (more lies).

It is an insult.

 

[allhers]

Well, if there was no way that His words could be taken symbolically (which they can) that would be the case. However, since they are to be taken symbolically, Jesus isn’t a liar.

You are half right here, Jesus isn’t the liar. You can take His words symbolically, however, that isn’t how He meant them. That is explained when you read all of John 6. You’ll notice how many walked away, much like you did, and then Jesus turned to HIS Apostles (those that stayed) and they received HIM.

One other thing that I’d like to clear up for you, in your little signature line by Charles S. it says this “If I were a Roman Catholic, I should turn a heretic, in sheer desperation, because I would rather go to heaven than go to purgatory”, didn’t you know that all in purgatory do go to heaven?

 

[danonwaveland]

The problem lies is that your worshipping the Eucharist as Jesus. So for you, partaking in the communion and believing that Jesus is present in the Eucharist is the extent of your relationship.

Wow, I am so sorry you’re missing the point. It’s not the extent of the personal relationship. It seems pointless to discuss this further with you.

And I see you’re throwing in that Charles Spurgeon quote at the bottom that makes as much sense as a Yogi Berra-ism. (Yogi is the guy who says things like ‘nobody goes to that restaurant any more; it’s too crowded,’) As Bishop Sheen said, ‘There are probably a hundred people who dislike the Catholic Church for what it teaches, but there are millions who dislike the Catholic Church for what they mistakenly think it teaches’

Please read the information packets here at www.catholic.com, listen to “Catholic Answers Live” – either on the radio or in their archives here online – or call their apologetics line to have someone explain these things to you. Watch “The Journey Home” on Monday evenings on EWTN. Read the conversion stories of Scott Hahn, Marcus Grodi, Tim Beckwith, Tim Staples and so many other Protestant ministers who have come home to the Catholic Church. It’s ironic that Protestant churches are flooded with Catholics who have never been properly cathechized – not their fault, but primarily the Church’s and their families’ faults – while more and more Protestant ministers – those who have studied scripture in their own seminaries – have heard the call of the Holy Spirit to come home to the Church founded by Jesus 2000 years ago, leaving the 28,000+ churches founded by man in the last few hundred years. Read the early church fathers and see how they worshipped (Hint: Eucharist, but read Hahn’s book), what they believed and how the church was formed.

In the meantime, God bless you on your journey. May He bless you – and all of us – with wisdom and a deep love for Him and respect for each other. I’m offline for the next couple of weeks – God bless you all and thank you for your thoughts in these discussions.

 

[InLight247]

The problem lies is that your worshipping the Eucharist as Jesus. So for you, partaking in the communion and believing that Jesus is present in the Eucharist is the extent of your relationship.

In my post # 19, I explained in detail the Catholics’ relationship with Jesus. Yet in your above response of post #20 you simply ignored all my sincere explanations and insisted Eucharist is the extent of our relationship with Jesus. What does that tell us?

Jesus is in the Eucharist. That is a fact and the truth.

Even if He was not, Catholics’ relationship with Jesus is still solid and sound. Like I said, Eucharist is a crucial part of our faith, but not the only part .

In addition to what the Lord said with His own words in the Gospel that ,Eucharist is the Real Presence, whoever have engaged in Eucharist Adoration can all tell you the transforming power they have experienced in front of the physical presence of the Lord.

What we are trying to tell you here are based on the following:

1. Jesus’ own words
2. Our faith in the Gospel and our faith in the Word of God
3. Universal Church’s teaching
4. Our first hand experiences

 

[myredeemerlives]

You know what is interesting? I can see where some people read things differently now. The first three words of your first sentence said it all. The problem lies------ read it this way…
The problem? Lies!!! You, and many others have been lied to.

You say that the problem lies in us worshipping the Eucharist as Jesus…etc, just read above for what you said, well, that isn’t the problem as far as we see it, we see it as the problem lies in that you listened to someone’s lies and walked away from Jesus, as He Himself said that He was present, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, it’s HIM, He said so, read all of John 6 prayfully. We simply believe HIM. “This is My Body”. He said so, we believe.

You know what else you said that isn’t true? You said that was the extent of our relationship with HIM, it isn’t. (more lies).

It is an insult.

Yes, I heard all you said… I just disagree with you.

I just want to address this person who is calling me a LIAR because I used the word LIES. All I can say to that is go get a dictionary, or better yet… learn to argue for your faith better.

If it makes you sleep at night thinking I’m a liar rather than questioning your own Church’s doctrines (as the bible tells us to do) then by all means sleep tight.

But if what I am saying to you is true, that a relationship with Jesus is much more than participating in the sacraments then you are in trouble and you need some serious waking up before it is too late.

 

[allhers]

Yes, I heard all you said… I just disagree with you.

I just want to address this person who is calling me a LIAR because I used the word LIES. All I can say to that is go get a dictionary, or better yet… learn to argue for your faith better.

If it makes you sleep at night thinking I’m a liar rather than questioning your own Church’s doctrines (as the bible tells us to do) then by all means sleep tight.

But if what I am saying to you is true, that a relationship with Jesus is much more than participating in the sacraments then you are in trouble and you need some serious waking up before it is too late.

I don’t need to argue my faith.
I sleep very well, thank you, hope you do too. As a matter of fact, I will pray for you before I sleep. I do think its rather sad when someone has to go and attack a Catholic for their faith, but Jesus warned us that this would happen, so its alright, go ahead, we can take it. However, you aren’t the first and you won’t be the last, and quite frankly, we’ve heard it all.
We aren’t the ones in trouble here. Go in peace. We’ll pray for you. If you’d like to learn the truth about our faith however, instead of the usual mantra that you are coming here with, by all means stick around, you will find that by asking sincere questions you will get answered, but when you attack and tell us we aren’t receiving Jesus in Holy Communion, you only sound very sadly misinformed.

 

[myredeemerlives]

Ok, you disagree with me but please don’t call me a liar. I don’t appreciate it.

 

[savedsinner]

myredeemerlives
I think they misunderstood what you meant when you wrote “The problem lies is that your worshipping the Eucharist as Jesus.”
It would have been more understandable if you wrote “The problem lies in that your worshipping the Eucharist as Jesus.”
You were trying to describe what the problem was, not that the problem was someone lying. I hate words that are spelled the same but have different meanings. When you are reading quickly, you can slip over the correct meaning of the word, and think it the other meaning the person intended.

Lie - to have a place in relation to something else

Lie - to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive

 

[myredeemerlives]

ah I mis-typed a word! I did mean to type in… oppsy

 

[bullfrog543]

i always mispell wods i have a learning disability but reading parables in the bible makes a person think for them selves… in this respect i talk load if i mispell thing i relate it as a parable and obtain the same effect and that is allowing people to think for them selves.

about jesus if you new jesus when he was 42 months old he would be normal and not recognised by the church because he would be the theif in the night, with my schizophrenia this has effected me to never say openly the name of jesus for being ridiculed by family ect…

 

[St_Gabriel]

myredeemerlives

The Eucharist is Jesus.

In the Bible, St Paul writes to the people of Corinth about the Eucharist. He tells them when they receive the bread unworthily it has an affect upon them. So it’s not just regular bread. It’s spiritual. Otherwise it would have no affect. He also rebuked people for coming just to satisfy their physical hunger.

1 Corinthians 11:28:34

Wherefore whosoever shall eat the bread or drink the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man prove himself, and so let him eat of the bread, and drink of the cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh, eateth and drinketh judgment unto himself, if he discern not the body.

30** For this cause many among you are weak and sickly, and not a few sleep**.

31 But if we discerned ourselves, we should not be judged.

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, wait one for another.

34 **If any man is hungry, let him eat at home; that your coming together be not unto judgment. And the rest will I set in order whensoever I come. **

 

[myredeemerlives]

I don’t disagree that it is a spiritual act… I believe that it’s a memorial which is why Jesus said “Do this in MEMORY of me”.