Eucharist & Relationship with Jesus

[booktolight]

Hi everyone,
In response to this thread I would like to say, can’t we receive Jesus in more than one way? By reading our bibles, by spiritual union, by recieving the eucharist .

 

[Lief_Erikson]

myredeemerlives, I truly appreciate and relate to your personal relationship with Jesus. I received the same thing as a Protestant, at the age of 15. It was glorious and it saved me from physical death. I was literally physically nearly killed, and Christ gloriously saved me. I saw a demon banished with my own eyes, and I have spoken with and heard God speaking to me all the years of my life afterward.

That never changed when I became Catholic. In fact, it was MULTIPLIED. I experience God far, far more now that I’ve become Catholic than I did as a Protestant.

 

[packermann]

MyRedeemerLives,

This thread is a Spirituality thread, not a Apologetic thread nor a Theology thread.

You talk about you having a relationship with Christ, but I am just not reading it in your posts. Your posts seem to reflect a person who confuses having a relationship with Christ with theological arguments over Christian doctrine and attacking one’s faith. You accuse us of being “workers of iniquity”, and yet Jesus commanded us to judge not lest you be judged. This is not exactly what I expected from someone who boasts that he is the only one in this thread with a REAL relationship with Christ.

I would like to encourage you to get into the spirit of this thread, and talk about how your relationship with Christ has effected you. If you want, even talk about what you do during the day in your relationdhip with Christ that you think would help us also in our relationship with Him. If you are not able to that without attacking our faith, I really question whether you actually have a relationship with Christ. I myself was a Protestant for 12 years. So much of what you write are Protestant cliches, that I myself parroted for most of those years as a Protestant.

So prove to us that your “relationship with Christ” is not just a cliche. Stop arguing theology and start talking about your spiritual walk with God.

 

[Muzhik]

I don’t disagree that it is a spiritual act… I believe that it’s a memorial which is why Jesus said “Do this in MEMORY of me”.

Unfortunately, that’s not QUITE what it says. Jewish teachings at the time were that when they participated in a Seder, the Jews were not just repeating something done thousands of years before. They were participating with Moses and the other Jews in the first (and you might say ONLY) Passover. Every Seder since the first one has been **contemporaneous **with the original Seder, all Jews from then until the end of time sharing in that meal. That is the concept that is expressed in the word that is translated as “in remembrance.” So every sacrifice of the Mass is operating contemporaneously with the Last Supper as well as His sacrifice on the cross the next day.

<><

 

[InLight247]

MyRedeemerLives,

This thread is a Spirituality thread, not a Apologetic thread nor a Theology thread.

You talk about you having a relationship with Christ, but I am just not reading it in your posts. Your posts seem to reflect a person who confuses having a relationship with Christ with theological arguments over Christian doctrine and attacking one’s faith. You accuse us of being “workers of iniquity”, and yet Jesus commanded us to judge not lest you be judged. This is not exactly what I expected from someone who boasts that he is the only one in this thread with a REAL relationship with Christ.

I would like to encourage you to get into the spirit of this thread, and talk about how your relationship with Christ has effected you. If you want, even talk about what you do during the day in your relationdhip with Christ that you think would help us also in our relationship with Him. If you are not able to that without attacking our faith, I really question whether you actually have a relationship with Christ. I myself was a Protestant for 12 years. So much of what you write are Protestant cliches, that I myself parroted for most of those years as a Protestant.

So prove to us that your “relationship with Christ” is not just a cliche. Stop arguing theology and start talking about your spiritual walk with God.

AMEN!

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Relax, guys. myredeemerlives may call us “workers of iniquity,” but many Catholics (including me) call Protestants “heretics.” The desire to bring people closer to Christ, which is, I think, what myredeemerlives is demonstrating by trying to bring us to Protestantism, is not a bad thing. His words don’t suggest that he lacks a personal relationship with Christ.

You’re right that this isn’t an Apologetics place, of course, so maybe this whole conversation would be better moved elsewhere.

I personally believe that myredeemerlives probably didn’t know God all that well as a Catholic (I think he said that himself), but was seeking to know Him better. Protestants gave him a great blessing by introducing him to a personal relationship with God that has flowered and is wonderfully blessing his life. He, in turn, wants to pass that blessing on to us.

However, I don’t know if he’s fully understanding that Catholics have been experiencing for 2,000 years what Protestants introduced him to. The stories of saints, and less extravagant believers all over the place, experiencing God and hearing His voice fill Catholic history now and for the last 2,000 years. Apparently, myredeemerlives was not in a place where that was taught or emphasized, so he missed it, and experiencing it elsewhere led him to another place.

I appreciate what he’s trying to do, though I think this is the wrong forum for it. I don’t think he’s right, because I think experiencing God in Protestantism has led him away from the truth of the Catholic faith, where this personal relationship with God that he has come to finds its fullness.

Protestants, in my experience, do have the Spirit of God. That is what myredeemerlives has encountered, and that is why he was drawn to Protestantism.

However, Protestants do not have the Body. In Catholicism, both the Spirit and the Body are united (even if, myredeemerlives, you didn’t personally feel the Spirit yourself while among us). There is one Church, rather than thousands, one Church which has existed from the beginning of Christianity to today. That Church is the Body of Christ, and it is so because we eat the Eucharist and in it are physically as well as spiritually united with Christ.

 

[myredeemerlives]

Thanks Lief for understanding, even though I still disagree with Catholic doctrine I appreciate the spirit of your comments. It was like a soft pillow after a big fall.

PS Just for the record, I’m a her. xx God bless you.

 

[St_Gabriel]

MyRedeemerLives,

It is a grace given by the Holy Spirit through prayer and contemplation that one comes to recognize the Eucharist is Jesus and not merely a symbol.

So faithful Catholics have the best of both worlds. The relationship with Christ through prayer and the relationship with Christ through the Eucharist and they receive grace upon grace.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by myredeemerlives

Quote:
Originally Posted by myredeemerlives
So you choose to ignore the part where I said that I too once believed that but now have a real relationship with Jesus?
Quote: (CatsAndDogs):
Are you saying that those who DO believe in communion (as per the Church [Catholic]) DON’T have a real relationship with Jesus?​

YES!

You’ve heard the part in the bible where Jesus says “depart from me you worker of eniquity I never knew you”? If you think that Jesus knows you because you partook in holy communion, you are very sadly mistaken.​

May I please get a straight clear answer to my questions, please? Thanks myredeemerlives.

My intent with the question was:

Do you think that one who partakes of Catholic communion is ACTIVELY EXCLUDED (by their willful act of taking communion as the Church demands) from HAVING a relationship with Jesus?

Are ALL Catholics who take communion, who do actually believe that they are taking in the Body and Blood of Christ, going to hell because they don’t “have a relationship” (as you define that) with Jesus?

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Jewish teachings at the time were that when they participated in a Seder, the Jews were not just repeating something done thousands of years before. They were participating with Moses and the other Jews in the first (and you might say ONLY) Passover. Every Seder since the first one has been **contemporaneous **with the original Seder, all Jews from then until the end of time sharing in that meal. That is the concept that is expressed in the word that is translated as “in remembrance.” So every sacrifice of the Mass is operating contemporaneously with the Last Supper as well as His sacrifice on the cross the next day.

That’s a really cool insight! I knew the Eucharist was participation in the one sacrifice of Christ on the cross, but I didn’t realize that this was what the words, “in remembrance of me” referred to, or the Mosaic connection. That’s really, really fascinating.

myredeemerlives:

Thanks Lief for understanding, even though I still disagree with Catholic doctrine I appreciate the spirit of your comments. It was like a soft pillow after a big fall.

PS Just for the record, I’m a her. xx God bless you.

Thanks, and God bless you too .

 

[myredeemerlives]

May I please get a straight clear answer to my questions, please? Thanks myredeemerlives.

My intent with the question was:

Do you think that one who partakes of Catholic communion is ACTIVELY EXCLUDED (by their willful act of taking communion as the Church demands) from HAVING a relationship with Jesus?

Are ALL Catholics who take communion, who do actually believe that they are taking in the Body and Blood of Christ, going to hell because they don’t “have a relationship” (as you define that) with Jesus?

Sorry must have missed your question…

Well it depends… I do believe that some Catholics have been born again of the spirit despite Catholic doctrine. However, I do believe that worshipping the Eucharist breaks the second commandment “Thou shalt not worship a false idol” only because I no longer believe Jesus is present in communion. I believe His presence comes into us when we repent and trust Him alone for salvation.

I believe in the evidences of being filled with the spirit such as speaking in tongues, prophecy etc

 

[PBP]

Sorry must have missed your question…

Well it depends… I do believe that some Catholics have been born again of the spirit despite Catholic doctrine. However, I do believe that worshipping the Eucharist breaks the second commandment “Thou shalt not worship a false idol” only because I no longer believe Jesus is present in communion. I believe His presence comes into us when we repent and trust Him alone for salvation.

I believe in the evidences of being filled with the spirit such as speaking in tongues, prophecy etc

What changed your belief ?

 

[myredeemerlives]

At first, it was scripture that lead me to go “look” at the local Christian church… I walked in and KNEW God was there. People were just crying and laughing and praising God in a way I’d never known before. I saw people speaking in tongues and a prophet gave me a direct word from God about the stuff I had been studying… no-one could have possibly known my thoughts but God. (as I’d snuck to the church hoping no-one would find out) But God knew. I repented and got filled with the spirit of God that day.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

That’s wonderful . I’ve experienced exactly the same things in Protestant surroundings- prophecies made and fulfilled, tongues and ecstatic experiences with the Spirit. It is beautiful. Some strong believers have prophesied about my life, and I’ve seen the prophecies fulfilled. God gave me predictive prophecies too, and I’ve seen several of them fulfilled. Some miracles too . . .

But my strongest experiences with the Spirit came when I entered the Catholic Church, especially when eating the Eucharist.

There also is a very large movement of Charismatic Catholics.

Praise God for the wondrous signs he gives many who follow him .

It’s worthwhile for us to remember, by the way, that the fact that a church experiences the Spirit of God doesn’t mean its particular brand of theology is all correct. Many Protestants across denominations, and non-denominationals, as well as large numbers of Catholic and Orthodox believers, experience God’s Spirit mightily. The fact that there are over 30,000 different Protestant denominations with contradictory and differing theologies makes it, while possible, very improbable that the one you have entered is going to be fully correct. Also, the earliest Protestant denominations don’t go any further back in history than the late 15th or early 16th century. Surely God wouldn’t have no correct denomination in existence, throughout history, until the 16th century? The powerful experience of God you’ve described has flourished among Catholic and Orthodox Christians long before the 16th century, though. So that alone cannot be seen as proof that the denomination or particular theological perspective you’ve joined is correct.

So while remembering that God pours out his Spirit to Christians all over the world, let’s be careful about allowing the experience of that in one particular modern group of churches to cause us to go over to that theology.

Thanks for sharing, by the way! I’m very glad you’ve received such a wonderful experience and new communion with God’s Spirit .

 

[myredeemerlives]

My only concern is that there are many, many more Catholics that haven’t experienced this than those that have.

It’s the ones that haven’t that I try to reach out to.

 

[PBP]

My only concern is that there are many, many more Catholics that haven’t experienced this than those that have.

It’s the ones that haven’t that I try to reach out to.

We cannot judge faith with the senses of our natural lives. I know its me who doesnt give up of myself freely because I am so selfish and always wanting this or that when I want it. I seek immediate gratification of my own selfish desires. The marriage supper of the lamb is beautiful and its me who doesnt give enough of myself in this relationship.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

My only concern is that there are many, many more Catholics that haven’t experienced this than those that have.

This is actually true of many, many Protestants as well . . .

It’s the ones that haven’t that I try to reach out to.

This is a point where it’s really illuminating to look into scripture, which is there to teach us about how we may be saved. Jesus said, “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved.” Belief and baptism are repeatedly underlined as essential (1 Pet. 3:21; cf. Acts 2:38, 22:16, Rom. 6:3–4, Col. 2:11–12). Major supernatural experiences with God are never mentioned as essential.

Paul talked about the Gifts of the Spirit, as I’m positive you’re aware. These are what you’re talking about, and they are very valuable forms of intimacy between God and man. Incredible blessings .

Paul also talked about the Fruits of the Spirit, and I think those are actually more important, because they are forms of goodness that overflow from a loving heart, and it is through love that we are united with Christ. Not through miracles and prophecies, according to Paul (1 Corinthians 3). He teaches that love is the “most excellent way.” In love, we are united with Christ (1 John 4:7). Miraculous powers or experiences don’t actually cut it on their own, according to Jesus:

On that day many will say to me, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?” And then will I declare to them, “I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.”

Knowing God experientially is extremely valuable, and I’ve been working to bring people into that experience all my life, ever since I met God myself that way. So I ENTIRELY am with you in wanting others to experience this. I’m just trying to frame this with a scriptural order of importance.

Of first and foremost importance for salvation, according to scripture, are belief and baptism. Love, according to John and Paul, is a crucial part of this, and from it the fruits of the Spirit spring. They are the emblem of a saintly life.

The Gifts of the Spirit are supernatural powers, often combined with other supernatural experiences, and they are one glorious way in which unity with Christ can manifest itself. They are secondary to the necessaries for salvation (belief and baptism) and love, in which every part of a life can become clothed with godliness. Love or lack of it can be a good indicator as to whether a person is following Christ truly or not. As Jesus said, once, “by their fruits, you shall know them.”

So I don’t think it’s scripturally appropriate to try to determine whether a person has a relationship with God or not, based on what supernatural experiences he or she may have had.