Eucharist

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Angela77

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I’m confused. I know in my heart that the Real Presence is true. (Eucharistic miracles, Scriptural support totally back it and are amazing.) But my head is having some trouble. I know it’s impossible to comprehend fully, but maybe you could help me a bit.

I keep hearing that it IS in its very essence the Body and Blood of Christ, but that it still has all the physical traits of bread and wine. What does it mean to be something in essence but not physically? I am having trouble wrapping my head around this concept even though I know it is true.

Thanks!!
 
Angela77 said:
I’m confused. I know in my heart that the Real Presence is true. (Eucharistic miracles, Scriptural support totally back it and are amazing.) But my head is having some trouble. I know it’s impossible to comprehend fully, but maybe you could help me a bit.

I keep hearing that it IS in its very essence the Body and Blood of Christ, but that it still has all the physical traits of bread and wine. What does it mean to be something in essence but not physically? I am having trouble wrapping my head around this concept even though I know it is true.

Thanks!!
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The example I like to give is this:

Imagine that God, for whatever hypothetical reason, removed your soul from your body and put a different person’s soul in your body. It would still be, on all physical levels measurable by science, your body. The person would look, sound, smell, and potentially even act just like you. The person would have any memories you have stored in your brain, etc. However, that person still wouldn’t be you, because it wouldn’t be your soul.

I hope this helps. It isn’t an exact comparison, but it should hopefully help you comprehend what is kind of going on with transubstantiation.
 
bzkoss236 said:
The example I like to give is this:

Imagine that God, for whatever hypothetical reason, removed your soul from your body and put a different person’s soul in your body. It would still be, on all physical levels measurable by science, your body. The person would look, sound, smell, and potentially even act just like you. The person would have any memories you have stored in your brain, etc. However, that person still wouldn’t be you, because it wouldn’t be your soul.

I hope this helps. It isn’t an exact comparison, but it should hopefully help you comprehend what is kind of going on with transubstantiation.
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That helps!! 👍
 
I think sometimes people over-think this. Consider: if God wanted to appear in every way scientifically testable as bread and wine, could he do it or not?
 
Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. (Hebrews 13:2)

There are stories in the Bible of angels appearing as ordinary men, eating and drinking, etc. (Genesis 18:1 - 19:29; Judges 6:11-24; Tobit 5:4 - 12:15)

In those cases, they were angels in essence but not in appearance. Similarly, the Eucharist is Jesus in essence but not in appearance.
 
Something that helps me is remembering that we are not our physical properties. Bob may have brown hair, but Bob is not brown hair. Bob may be 6 ft tall, but 6ft tall is not Bob. Bob may be left-handed, but left-handed is not Bob.

Our physical properties can describe something about us, but they are NOT us.

Same with the Eucharist. The appearance of bread and wine is NOT the essence of the Eucharist.

Another way to think about it. Consider identical twins. They may look alike, sounds alike, smell alike, etc. But they are NOT the same person. Their essence is different.
 
I’ve found it helpful to think in terms of Who Jesus is and what appearance He has. Eucharist is Jesus under the appearance of bread/wine…Jesus but not recognized (visually) as Jesus.

At the Transfiguration, the Transfigured Christ is Jesus, in the appearance of His Glorified Nature (not sure if that’s the right way to put it)…Jesus, but not recognized in the way He was recognized prior to this.

When Jesus rose form the dead and appeared to the disciples on the road, they did not recognize Him, but thought He was a traveler. It was Jesus under the appearance of a stranger/another human form…still Jesus but not recognized as Jesus (until He chose to reveal Himself).

Something else that has helped me is to consider why He gives Himself to us under the appearance of bread and wine. I think that it is so we will know what to do with Him when He is with us…we know to eat Him. We know and recognize bread as food. And since we must eat the Flesh of Christ to have life within us, what better way for Him to give Himself to us than under the appearance of something we recognize as food and know to eat?
 
You can even look to yourself.

You remember when you were in the 5th grade. By now every atom, every molecule, every part of your physical being has been replace with other atoms. If science had a way of noting which atoms were in your body at that time, they could say, “this is a different human. Nothing remains of the old.”

The Jews asked a similar question. How can God (an infinite being) be present in a human (a finite being). Jesus CANNOT be God. Therefore they must reject any such claim.

Paul’s response in Phil 2

Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross. Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and gave unto him the name which is above every name; that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven and things on earth and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
 
Angela77 said:
I’m confused. I know in my heart that the Real Presence is true. (Eucharistic miracles, Scriptural support totally back it and are amazing.) But my head is having some trouble. I know it’s impossible to comprehend fully, but maybe you could help me a bit.

I keep hearing that it IS in its very essence the Body and Blood of Christ, but that it still has all the physical traits of bread and wine. What does it mean to be something in essence but not physically? I am having trouble wrapping my head around this concept even though I know it is true.

Thanks!!
Click to expand...
I was definitely facing similar struggles as you once! In order to overcome the struggle I used a different approach to thinking and feeling the Real Presence by assigning extended purpose and justifying the means with science. Please consider the following concepts:

Regarding the Body:
-In order to continue living, we must eat another life, perhaps plant or animal life. The energy/nutrients obtained from the life will determine how long we can continue living, until we need to eat another life.
-Since we want to live forever, we must eat the life which lives forever. The only life to live forever is God’s Life.
-The Eucharist is the only way to eat, and become one with, the Body of God/Jesus.
This line of thinking enabled me to no longer worry about whether or not it is the Real Physical Body of Jesus, to the point where now I know it is the Real Presence.

Regarding the Blood:
-Experiences of Heaven are unlimited happiness with peace for all. In a world of free-willed persons, a person must be and spread the means to be perfectly patient and kind in order to restore/maintain/build the experience of Heaven in his/her relationships within the world.
Answering how perfectly patient and kind must a person be, shows why we need the Blood of Jesus.
-We bleed when we get “hurt”. We “hurt” when someone, including ourselves, has been mean, especially unjustly mean to us. When others are unjustly mean to us, we naturally react impatiently and meanly back.
-In the Crucifixion and Teachings of Jesus, He shows us how to be perfectly patient and kind, even in the face of unjust impatience and meanness.
-In other words, Jesus naturally “bleeds” patience and kindness, whereas we naturally “bleed” impatience and meanness.
-In order to be and spread the means to be perfectly patient and kind, we must “bleed” patience and kindness. To “bleed” patience and kindness, our blood must be of patience and kindness.
-The Eucharist is the only way to drink, and become one with, the Blood of God/Jesus (Patience and Kindness, even in the face of unjust meanness).
 
johnnyc176 said:
Hi Angela…maybe this little write up can help.

crossroadsinitiative.com/library_article/130/Eucharist__The_Body_of_Christ__The_Real_Presence.html
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This is an excellent article, thankyou 👍

In it the following quote:
“St. Thomas said the Eucharist is the one change we encounter that is exactly the opposite. The appearances of bread and wine stay the same, but the very essence of these realities, which can’t be viewed by a microscope, is totally transformed. What starts as bread and wine becomes Christ’s body and blood.”

…says to me that the fundamental “purpose” of the Eucharist is to instil a “spiritual” change in those that partake in it.

Some of the “spiritual changes” have been outlined by jochoa in the post above.

Am I correct in my understanding here?
 
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