Thank you for your post. I just mean that I was thinking about the Eucharist and was wondering how and why He becomes the Eucharist for us at every Mass. Then I thought, “well, I guess He can take any form He chooses.” From there I wondered if He can, if He wants to.Your question sounds like you are asking if God is a trekian changeling. He isn’t of course. However, we know that his appearance has differed in different circumstances. I understand it can be fun to speculate as to what God might do that is beyond revelation. However their are some wonderful things He has done that we know of. Here are some examples. God led the people of Israel through the wilderness from Egypt to Canaan with his Glory manifested as smoke by day and fire by night. This Glory was so overwealming that not even Moses the friend of God was able to enter the cloud when God entered the tabernacle. If you see the door of heaven cracked in this life, I assure you it will wreck you for days. When Israel was judged for their rebellion by serpents, Moses lifted their sin on the pole in effigy so that who ever looked on the bronze serpent was healed. Jesus referenced this event as being a statement about himself on the cross. Moses predicted the substitutionary death of Christ in our place on the Cross. “He made him who knew no sin to be sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God in him.” In the incarnation we see Him as the seed of the woman bruising the serpant’s head. In his ministry we see him as the Good shepherd laying down his life for the sheep. For a moment in the temple we see him as the messiah who drives out the abomination of oppression of worldliness profaning the holy. and in the future we expect to see the completion of that roll. At the mount of transfiguration we see him as Glorious Lord. In the revelation of John we see a description of the glorified body. John falls at his feat as dead. I hope someday to see him as he is and be like him. Later John looks to the lion and sees a lamb that was slain. Here Christ is represented as the heir of David’s throne, the lion of Juda–and also the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. When the scrolls are opened we see Him on a charger as a mighty warrior and a king supreme. Finally at the end we see him as a groom eagerly waiting the day when he is fully united with his Bride in the new universe He is currently preparing for her.
It is not wrong to wonder or speculate. I just wanted to show you some of the ways Jesus has appeared to us and certainly I haven’t covered them all. I could also have mentioned the bread that came down from heaven and books have been written there. The key thing is that these revelations are a message to us about who He is and our place in His plan–to know love enjoy worship and serve him for ever. There is much to appreciate in how he has appeared.
I will say there is a limit to what God can do. He is limited not by power or talent but but by fidelity to Himself. He cannot do evil. His thoughts are higher than ours and we don’t always know what is Good as a result some of the things we wish or expect him to do he cannot do. Other things that seem impossible to us are easy for him. So I don’t know how many ways he can appear, but the way he has revealed Himself to us so far is awesome.
It’s one of those mysteries I suppose. If I have water to give people dying of thirst, I can distribute the water as I see fit. Those who are thirsty can only receive it as it is offered. The ways in which God offers us grace are to His good pleasure. I am looking forward to all the wonders we have yet to see in Glory. Another thing He can do in his glorified body is disappear, example the disciples on the road to emeuse.Thank you for your post. I just mean that I was thinking about the Eucharist and was wondering how and why He becomes the Eucharist for us at every Mass. Then I thought, “well, I guess He can take any form He chooses.” From there I wondered if He can, if He wants to.
Well as the person is both divine and human, The Most Holy Trinity takes various appearances (which some call a material forms, but not form in the sense of essence) such as Jesus at the transfiguration, in the Eucharist, the Holy Ghost appearing as a dove, the resurrected body of Jesus, and at the glorious ascension. Could there be others? I suppose so; wait and see.I think I’ve read that before, but I dont think it really answers my question.
So your answer is yes, then? Or if not ANY form He chooses, at least He can take the form of the ones you mentioned, including the Eucharist?Well as the person is both divine and human, The Most Holy Trinity takes various appearances (which some call a material forms, but not form in the sense of essence) such as Jesus at the transfiguration, in the Eucharist, the Holy Ghost appearing as a dove, the resurrected body of Jesus, and at the glorious ascension. Could there be others? I suppose so; wait and see.
So your answer is yes, then? Or if not ANY form He chooses, at least He can take on the form of the ones you mentioned, including the Eucharist?
What do you mean by essence?Well as the person is both divine and human, The Most Holy Trinity takes various appearances (which some call a material forms, but not form in the sense of essence).
The essence is that whereby a thing is that which it is, in other words, the ground of its characteristics and the principle of its being.What do you mean by essence?
So your answer to my OP is yes, then? Or if not ANY form He chooses, at least He can take the form of the ones you mentioned, including the Eucharist?The essence is that whereby a thing is that which it is, in other words, the ground of its characteristics and the principle of its being.
What do you mean by form?So your answer to my OP is yes, then? Or if not ANY form He chooses, at least He can take the form of the ones you mentioned, including the Eucharist?
I mean by form, that can Jesus become anything He chooses, like could He choose to take on the form of the Eucharist or anything else?What do you mean by form?
For example in Collins Dictionary, form, noun
- When something can exist or happen in several possible ways, you can use form to refer to one particular way in which it exists or happens.
Jesus doesn’t “take on the form of… the Eucharist.” Rather, the Eucharist is Jesus.Yes. So Jesus chooses to take on the form of various things, including the Eucharist?
Let me try again. Could Jesus become anything He chooses, like the Eucharist or anything else?I mean by form, that can Jesus become anything He chooses, like could He choose to take on the form of the Eucharist or anything else?
I dont think I’m expressing myself very well.
How is the Eucharist Jesus, if not Jesus taking on the form of the Eucharist?Jesus doesn’t “take on the form of… the Eucharist.” Rather, the Eucharist is Jesus.
“Could” is very imprecise. Is He smart enough, powerful enough? Yes. Is it within His nature to transubstantiate into a hog? I doubt it. Can he create a parable, event of history, or vision by which His Character is revealed, yes. In that vein, could he be described representatively in a parable as something non-humanoid? How about a hen as in his lament over Jerusalem? Well read it yourself and see. I don’t know of anything other than the Eucharist and the incarnation as situations where God Himself is believed to be really present in a tangeable form within creation in Catholic teaching. But, as you see above, I am not qualified to confirmed. Still there is no mention in scripture that he appears any other way than as a man or as the bread of life. So that is something. It may be recreational to speculate here. The real wealth is in who He is. Jesus is the word of God incarnate. (John 1). He is the final and perfect message of God to mankind. (Hebrews 1). It might be more faith building to focus on who He is as proclaimed in scripture and tradition then to wonder about such things. It’s fine to wonder, but I don’t think you will be finding anyone who will say that any item can miraculously become the real presence. It’s just not something we have been told. More important than can he shapeshift, we know when we serve others in His Name, He credits it as serving Him personally. Can you see Him in the repulsive and lonely?I mean by form, that can Jesus become anything He chooses, like could He choose to take on the form of the Eucharist or anything else?
I dont think I’m expressing myself very well.
So do you mean develop the characteristics of something else?Let me try again. Could Jesus become anything He chooses, like the Eucharist or anything else?
I don’t know. The first one, I guess.So do you mean develop the characteristics of something else?
Collins Dictionary, become, verb
If someone or something becomes a particular thing, they start to change and develop into that thing, or start to develop the characteristics mentioned.
Or do you mean to appear?
Collins Dictionary, appear, verb
If someone or something appears to have a particular quality or characteristic, they give the impression of having that quality or characteristic.
Baltimore Catechism uses to appear rather than to become.I don’t know. The first one, I guess.
I don’t mean that. That doesn’t answer my question.Baltimore Catechism uses to appear rather than to become.
348. Did anything of the bread and wine remain after their substance had been changed into Our Lord’s body and blood?
After the substance of the bread and wine had been changed into Our Lord’s body and blood, there remained only the appearances of bread and wine.
(a) Because the appearances of bread and wine remain in the Holy Eucharist, we cannot see Christ with our bodily eyes in this sacrament. We do see Him, however, with the eyes of faith. Our bodily eyes, moreover, do not deceive us when they see the appearances of bread and wine for these appearances really remain after the Consecration of the Mass.
Jesus can do anything he wants. That being said it has never been dogmatically revealed to the Church if he ever has or ever intends to. So as Catholics I think this is something we would have to say is our opinion and not coming across as it “is” Catholic teaching.I don’t mean that. That doesn’t answer my question.
I mean can or could Jesus, under His own power and will, become someone or something else?