Eucharistic bread

[fall_fox]

For Holy Thursday, I make the bread to be used for the Holy Eucharist, for my Parish. I know all the rules concerning what should be in it, but had a thought that might make it just a little more palatable. Wheat germ, of course, is a natural part of a grain of wheat, would there be anything wrong with adding more wheat germ to the bread mix as you were making the bread? I really can’t see that there should be a problem. it’s not the same as adding sugar, honey, oil, or anything else someone might put in there to improve the taste and or texture.
What difference does it matter about how it tastes? Not much, but the companies that provide the hosts for communion have improved the taste and texture of the hosts, within the rules of the Church. So why shouldn’t I try to do the same?

 

[Leon_Bloy]

No offense, honestly, but why not just have your parish obtain the breads from one of the usual suppliers?

I don’t know all the rules, but as you indicate you are trying to do, be really precise.

 

[ConstantineTG]

For Holy Thursday, I make the bread to be used for the Holy Eucharist, for my Parish. I know all the rules concerning what should be in it, but had a thought that might make it just a little more palatable. Wheat germ, of course, is a natural part of a grain of wheat, would there be anything wrong with adding more wheat germ to the bread mix as you were making the bread? I really can’t see that there should be a problem. it’s not the same as adding sugar, honey, oil, or anything else someone might put in there to improve the taste and or texture.
What difference does it matter about how it tastes? Not much, but the companies that provide the hosts for communion have improved the taste and texture of the hosts, within the rules of the Church. So why shouldn’t I try to do the same?

Best to ask the bishop’s office. I also make the Communion bread (prosphora) for our parish but I’m not familiar with wheat germ. I don’t deviate from the recommended ingredients. People are happy with the bread I make anyway because they get to taste a lot of it for Litya (when we bless bread during Great Feasts) and I basically use the same exact recipe and process as making prosphora.

No offense, honestly, but why not just have your parish obtain the breads from one of the usual suppliers?

I don’t know all the rules, but as you indicate you are trying to do, be really precise.

I think its better if parishioners do make the bread for Communion. It makes for a better community and gives that good sense that the bread is indeed an offering from the community. Better too if someone knows how to make the wine.

 

[TraditonRules]

Not sure how taste and texture have anything to do with Communion…

If you want taste and texture stop on over to Burger King

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

I would be very cautious about homemade altar bread because, even if made correctly and is valid matter, it tends to be crumbly. Every crumb that can be recognized as such has to be accounted for and reverently consumed.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Not sure how taste and texture have anything to do with Communion…

If you want taste and texture stop on over to Burger King

Why? Burger King has neither

Besides, I don’t know why one doesn’t try to make the best bread possible for offering. I was sleepless for a week before Christmas because I was making the bread for our Nativity Liturgy. I think I made 4 batches that week just trying to get it right.

 

[fall_fox]

No offense, honestly, but why not just have your parish obtain the breads from one of the usual suppliers?

I don’t know all the rules, but as you indicate you are trying to do, be really precise.

This is done only on Holy Thursday to commemorate the last supper using this type of bread, the type used at a Seder supper. The rest of the year we do buy our hosts from the normal vendors that are Church approved. The mix the companies use are the same as mine only they mix it very thin and process in sheets that are more dried than baked then cut into hosts.

 

[DexUK]

I once thought about the possibility of making the unleavened bread for Mass. When I suggested it to Father, he advised me that it would be unwise as it wouldn’t be made in such a way as it could be stored and if a large amount was left it would be difficult to reserve in the tabernacle. Then again, I do attend a very small parish. Perhaps with a larger parish there’s the opportunity for there to be a communally made bread with the option of additional ‘manufactured’ hosts which can be easily reposed should the communal bread not be sufficient…

I do like the idea of it though (provided the donor isn’t seeing it as some sort of feather in a cap to be providing the paschal loaf…)

 

[ConstantineTG]

I would be very cautious about homemade altar bread because, even if made correctly and is valid matter, it tends to be crumbly. Every crumb that can be recognized as such has to be accounted for and reverently consumed.

The bread can always be cut prior to Consecration save for the one that will be used for the Fraction Rite. This way you can dust off the crumbs without worry.

 

[fall_fox]

I once thought about the possibility of making the unleavened bread for Mass. When I suggested it to Father, he advised me that it would be unwise as it wouldn’t be made in such a way as it could be stored and if a large amount was left it would be difficult to reserve in the tabernacle. Then again, I do attend a very small parish. Perhaps with a larger parish there’s the opportunity for there to be a communally made bread with the option of additional ‘manufactured’ hosts which can be easily reposed should the communal bread not be sufficient…

I do like the idea of it though (provided the donor isn’t seeing it as some sort of feather in a cap to be providing the paschal loaf…)

A little humor, the first year I made the communion bread, I just gave them the whole batch that I had made. Each of my “loves” are scored so they can be easily broken into small pieces just before Communion. Each loaf breaks into 60 pieces. Father Consecrated all six of the loaves. By Easter Sunday they were getting kind of tough. I suggested after the fact, that they might be rather Conservative on how much they consecrate the nest time, they thought that was a wise thing to do.
I had gone out of state that first year so I couldn’t enjoy the situation, but they did what they had to do and consumed it properly.

 

[FrDavid96]

For Holy Thursday, I make the bread to be used for the Holy Eucharist, for my Parish. I know all the rules concerning what should be in it, but had a thought that might make it just a little more palatable. Wheat germ, of course, is a natural part of a grain of wheat, would there be anything wrong with adding more wheat germ to the bread mix as you were making the bread? I really can’t see that there should be a problem. it’s not the same as adding sugar, honey, oil, or anything else someone might put in there to improve the taste and or texture.
What difference does it matter about how it tastes? Not much, but the companies that provide the hosts for communion have improved the taste and texture of the hosts, within the rules of the Church. So why shouldn’t I try to do the same?

Personally, I consider that “doubtful.” In other words, if it were my own parish I’d say a definite no to adding wheat germ. Granted, it’s part of the wheat anyway, but adding the extra germ changes the proportion of the flour so that it’s no longer the natural proportion of the germ to the rest of the wheat grain.

Let’s look at this from the opposite perspective. We know that the Holy See has approved breads made with a minimum of gluten (often mistakenly called “gluten free”) for those who can’t tolerate the gluten. Let’s remember though that the recipes had to be submitted to the Holy See and only after careful investigation and consideration were these approved. The point being that they needed approval in the first place. Rome did not simply say “yes, it’s fine to have a bread with less gluten” and leave it open for local interpretation. I would say that the same principle would apply here, only in reverse, that one is adding more germ instead.

What I’m trying to say here is that I would recommend that you not do this; although (as you already pointed out) it’s not the same as adding some foreign ingredient which would undoubtedly make it invalid (like raisins or nuts, etc.).

It’s always better not to try experimenting with altar breads, and instead stick to just plain wheat-flour and water and leave it at that.

And just to stick my own two mites in here, I do like the idea of homemade breads for the Eucharist–it’s just that we have to be very very careful about it.

 

[lizaanne]

Not sure how taste and texture have anything to do with Communion…

If you want taste and texture stop on over to Burger King

Exactly.

When are people ever going to get over the fact that the Mass is not all about them, and how THEY must somehow have their hands on anything and everything that happens in the sanctuary.

This IS the sacrifice of Christ re-presented in our presence. What difference does it make what the bread is like - by the time it is consumed it will be the Body of Christ.

~Liza

 

[fall_fox]

I do like the idea of it though (provided the donor isn’t seeing it as some sort of feather in a cap to be providing the paschal loaf…)

I had been making bread to sell at our parish festival so a lot of folks knew I did that sort of thing. The person that had been making the Communion Bread for Holy Thursday had to quit so they asked if I would like to make the bread. I told them that it would be an honor for me to do that. Maybe I should look into the feather in the cap thing, I don’t know what that would be. I am a EMHC, Lector, Parish Council Member, Liturgy Committee member, Church grounds crew member, leading a group of guys to build large charcoal grills to help with Parish bills.
I know you don’t know me, but I would think someone, anyone, should get the benefit of a doubt before questioning motivation.

 

[fall_fox]

Personally, I consider that “doubtful.” In other words, if it were my own parish I’d say a definite no to adding wheat germ. Granted, it’s part of the wheat anyway, but adding the extra germ changes the proportion of the flour so that it’s no longer the natural proportion of the germ to the rest of the wheat grain.

Let’s look at this from the opposite perspective. We know that the Holy See has approved breads made with a minimum of gluten (often mistakenly called “gluten free”) for those who can’t tolerate the gluten. Let’s remember though that the recipes had to be submitted to the Holy See and only after careful investigation and consideration were these approved. The point being that they needed approval in the first place. Rome did not simply say “yes, it’s fine to have a bread with less gluten” and leave it open for local interpretation. I would say that the same principle would apply here, only in reverse, that one is adding more germ instead.

What I’m trying to say here is that I would recommend that you not do this; although (as you already pointed out) it’s not the same as adding some foreign ingredient which would undoubtedly make it invalid (like raisins or nuts, etc.).

It’s always better not to try experimenting with altar breads, and instead stick to just plain wheat-flour and water and leave it at that.

And just to stick my own two mites in here, I do like the idea of homemade breads for the Eucharist–it’s just that we have to be very very careful about it.

Thank you Father for your (name removed by moderator)ut. This is why I have started looking to this, to see if it would fall in on the side of being a legal or valid thing to do.

 

[fall_fox]

Exactly.

When are people ever going to get over the fact that the Mass is not all about them, and how THEY must somehow have their hands on anything and everything that happens in the sanctuary.

This IS the sacrifice of Christ re-presented in our presence. What difference does it make what the bread is like - by the time it is consumed it will be the Body of Christ.

~Liza

You know, I’m about as Conservative a Catholic as you can get. I have questioned things being done in my Parish that are at odds with GIRM and try to do something about it. Glass sacred vessels for example, I was instrumental in ordering and receiving the proper vessels to be used for the Holy Eucharist. This was accomplished through the generosity of some Parishioners that bought them to memorialize a loved one.
Another was the Purification of the Sacred Vessels, basically it is being done in the Sacristy by EMHC, it should be done on the Alter or Credence Table, I failed to get that done properly.
I hope you are as active in your parish, expressing your views to make sure all is being done according to the GIRM. Are you on the Liturgy Committee?
If you read my thread carefully, you will note that I didn’t put much importance to the taste of the Communion Bread. I have pointed out that we now have whole wheat hosts that you wouldn’t find 50 years ago.
All that we do to help prepare our Parishes for Mass is giving honor to God. It “IS” all about Him, but we do what we can to show our LOVE for Him.
The Mass doesn’t happen by itself, or only on the efforts of our Priests. Maybe you are not aware, but there are a lot of folks working behind the scenes to make sure everyone is notified about all they should know, including the Priest. To make sure that Alter and the Church is at its best, that the music is appropriate,
that someone has ordered enough hosts and wine to celebrate Mass.
Are You there?
Are you helping?
Does that make the Mass about you?
Does that make the Mass about us?

 

[lizaanne]

Are you on the Liturgy Committee??

I am thankful to God that we do not have one, nor do we need one.

Here is a taste of our parish: te-deum.blogspot.com/2010/04/good-friday-at-assumption-grotto-in.html

~Liza

 

[ConstantineTG]

I’ve read a bit into wheat germ and it seems its a natural component of wheat that is removed from milling. Of course in the past (like in the First Millennium) the milling process is not as good as we have today, so definitely wheat germ has been present in bread that is made into the Eucharist. But like what FrDavid said, by adding it yourself, its more of an artificial process that could create a wrong balance. Although, being from wheat itself, I don’t know why or how it would invalidate the Sacrament because it still is wheat.

 

[fall_fox]

I am thankful to God that we do not have one, nor do we need one.

Here is a taste of our parish: te-deum.blogspot.com/2010/04/good-friday-at-assumption-grotto-in.html

~Liza

Beautiful, how is it the Priest is still facing the Alter? I am aware that that is the way he should be facing, East, instead of the people. It’s all about God not the people. I really dislike the word fellowship when connected with the Catholic Church, at least as I understand the word. It sounds so Protestant, it’s all they have, they don’t have Christ in the Holy Eucharist.

Our Pastor takes care of three Parishes, so he is spread pretty thin, so a Liturgy Committee is pretty much a necessity. I would rather be on it than gripe about my parish becoming liberal.

 

[DexUK]

I had been making bread to sell at our parish festival so a lot of folks knew I did that sort of thing. The person that had been making the Communion Bread for Holy Thursday had to quit so they asked if I would like to make the bread. I told them that it would be an honor for me to do that. Maybe I should look into the feather in the cap thing, I don’t know what that would be. I am a EMHC, Lector, Parish Council Member, Liturgy Committee member, Church grounds crew member, leading a group of guys to build large charcoal grills to help with Parish bills.
I know you don’t know me, but I would think someone, anyone, should get the benefit of a doubt before questioning motivation.

Oh my goodness, that wasn’t my intention at all. I am just aware that some people can be quite possessive about their ‘jobs’ in a parish and sometimes that might lead one into the temptation of pride. It was just an aside, it wasn’t an accusation. I’m very sorry if you perceived it as such.

 

[fall_fox]

I’ve read a bit into wheat germ and it seems its a natural component of wheat that is removed from milling. Of course in the past (like in the First Millennium) the milling process is not as good as we have today, so definitely wheat germ has been present in bread that is made into the Eucharist. But like what FrDavid said, by adding it yourself, its more of an artificial process that could create a wrong balance. Although, being from wheat itself, I don’t know why or how it would invalidate the Sacrament because it still is wheat.

Up until I’ll say the last 40 or 50 years, the only host we would see was a white host made I’m sure with white flour, bleached flour, it seems that it would be missing something but it was still valid.