Eucharistic Minister at Hospital - Complete Disrespect for Eucharist

[a_pilgrim]

Unless you are in need of the Sacrament of the Sick, most Priests simply don’t have the time to make hospital visits. You should not refrain from receiving just because HE is being served by a Minister of Care, or for that matter, that you have a problem with us lowly Lay people being commissioned by the Diocese to help out.

It’s not an issue of lowliness. It is an issue of ordination.

I’m also a third degree Knight.

CDL

Gentlemen, if I may…

RichT: GregoryPalamas/CDL, like me, is a Byzantine Catholic. For a non-ordained layperson in the Byzantine Catholic Church to handle the Blessed Sacrament is pretty much unheard of - it is just not part of our theological constructs. Mind you… as a Catholic I do not question the Latin Church’s decision to use Extraordinary Ministers, just as I would not expect our Latin brethren to question our Byzantine Catholic decision not to. Mutual respect for what each of us brings to the table we call Catholicism is certainly in order - as is mutual understanding of why we each view and do things the way we do.

An anectdote may help clarify…

St. John Chrysostom happens to be a BIG saint in the eyes of Eastern Catholics. He is said to have made the statement (if I may paraphrase) that if one were to meet a priest and an angel walking side by side, one should properly greet the priest first, before the angel, and kiss his hand because his is the hand that actuallty touches Our Lord. That’s the sense of sacredness that ordained hands, and only ordained hands, hold in the Byzantine Catholic Church with regard to the disposition of Our Lord in Holy Communion. As a young Byzantine Catholic altar boy I was even instructed and cautioned by Father not to even let my hand make accidental contact with the Sacred Cup - it, too, was/is for ordained hands only. I understand fully where CDL is coming from; I truly hope you do, too.

All that said, I personally worship often in the Latin Church and I do receive Our Lord from the hands of Extraordinary Ministers, because our Holy Father has given approval for this practice within the context of the Latin Church’s liturgical praxes. Even so, with Chrysostom’s words always resounding in my head, I cannot bring myself to receive in the hand. I cast absolutely no aspersions toward my Latin Catholic brethren who do receive in the hand (my own wife is Latin Catholic and receives in the hand), but I do humbly ask that they understand why I do not.

By the way, guys… I, too, am a third degree Knight!

Vivat Jesus!

 

[drafdog]

I trust that when you have recovered your health you will be volunteering for the hospital visitation ministry in your parish. The only logical thing for you to do.

Matthew

 

[RichT]

Gentlemen, if I may…

RichT: GregoryPalamas/CDL, like me, is a Byzantine Catholic. For a non-ordained layperson in the Byzantine Catholic Church to handle the Blessed Sacrament is pretty much unheard of - it is just not part of our theological constructs. Mind you… as a Catholic I do not question the Latin Church’s decision to use Extraordinary Ministers, just as I would not expect our Latin brethren to question our Byzantine Catholic decision not to. Mutual respect for what each of us brings to the table we call Catholicism is certainly in order - as is mutual understanding of why we each view and do things the way we do.

An anectdote may help clarify…

St. John Chrysostom happens to be a BIG saint in the eyes of Eastern Catholics. He is said to have made the statement (if I may paraphrase) that if one were to meet a priest and an angel walking side by side, one should properly greet the priest first, before the angel, and kiss his hand because his is the hand that actuallty touches Our Lord. That’s the sense of sacredness that ordained hands, and only ordained hands, hold in the Byzantine Catholic Church with regard to the disposition of Our Lord in Holy Communion. As a young Byzantine Catholic altar boy I was even instructed and cautioned by Father not to even let my hand make accidental contact with the Sacred Cup - it, too, was/is for ordained hands only. I understand fully where CDL is coming from; I truly hope you do, too.

All that said, I personally worship often in the Latin Church and I do receive Our Lord from the hands of Extraordinary Ministers, because our Holy Father has given approval for this practice within the context of the Latin Church’s liturgical praxes. Even so, with Chrysostom’s words always resounding in my head, I cannot bring myself to receive in the hand. I cast absolutely no aspersions toward my Latin Catholic brethren who do receive in the hand (my own wife is Latin Catholic and receives in the hand), but I do humbly ask that they understand why I do not.

By the way, guys… I, too, am a third degree Knight!

Vivat Jesus!

Thanks for this response, it does clarify things for me, however, it might have helped had he identified himself as a Byzantine Catholic. My question is, when are all of you 3rd degree Knights going to become 4th degree Knights? Looks like June for me.

 

[lizaanne]

If you feel the need to have confession while in the hospital, you should contact your parish and ask to see a priest. You might alos want the Sacrament of the Sick while he is there, depending of course on your illness. After that and depending on where you live and how many priest there are, I wouldn’t expect to get regular visits from a priest at the hospital.

As a slightly related side story —

My grandmother was in the hospital in December. She is not in a condition to receive Holy Communion. The EMHC came into her room and my uncle (who is her care taker) told her that grandmother is not able to receive (she was sleeping at the time, and has pretty severe dementia). She (the EMHC) asked my uncle if he would like to receive, and he said that he would not at the time because he would prefer to go to confession first.

This WOMAN then winked at him, and tapped her ear, as if to say “oh, just tell me”. And said “I’m sure I’ve heard it all before”!

I looked at her and just said: “I don’t think so” She just laughed at me and walked out of the room.

I was so furious I couldn’t stand it. I intended to contact the hospital chaplain, but never had the opportunity with all the ordeal over grandmother being in the hospital. How incredibly infuriating.

~Liza

 

[Marauder]

As a slightly related side story —

… She (the EMHC) asked my uncle if he would like to receive, and he said that he would not at the time because he would prefer to go to confession first.

This WOMAN then winked at him, and tapped her ear, as if to say “oh, just tell me”. And said “I’m sure I’ve heard it all before”!

That is sad. I would get your uncle to report it, your reporting it doesn’t really help a lot because it is second hand information, but it should be dealt with. People like that should either be removed from the ministry or at least re-trained.

 

[RichT]

Well, in the two years that I served in the hospital setting, the biggest lesson I learned was to not wear a black polo shirt with a white undershirt. I couldn’t figure out why everyone kept calling me father.

 

[BOBKAT]

This reminds me of a situation I had with a fellow classmate. I am in the Chucrh Ministry progam and one of our EMHC who does hospital duty was asked by a sick patient if he could have commouion and she did not hesitate to give it to him even though he voluntarily told her he wasn’t catholic. I told her that she should not have done that and if anything she should have asked him if he were baptized. I got a chuckle on that one. When this circulated the classroom I must say it was deeply divided. I find it really sad that people think they can make up the rules and as long as we are using people of this mind we will continue to have problems. I also have trouble with EMHC complain about putting it on the person’s tongue, it seems to take away from the sacradness of the sacrament. Anyhow that’s my take.

God Bless
Kathleen

 

[lizaanne]

That is sad. I would get your uncle to report it, your reporting it doesn’t really help a lot because it is second hand information, but it should be dealt with. People like that should either be removed from the ministry or at least re-trained.

It was not second hand - I was THERE. Re-read my post.

It was over 5 months ago - I doubt I would be able to tell them who the woman was at this point.

~Liza

 

[Marauder]

It was not second hand - I was THERE. Re-read my post.

It was over 5 months ago - I doubt I would be able to tell them who the woman was at this point.

Ooops missed the part where it was you that told her “I don’t think so.” I thought it was just your uncle and grandmother. Sorry. Well then you should report it if you can figure out who she is. People like that shouldn’t be in the ministry or at least retrained.

Every time I go to the hospital I think I use the phrase, “I am just a lay person” at least 20 times.

 

[ProVobis]

After that and depending on where you live and how many priest there are, I wouldn’t expect to get regular visits from a priest at the hospital.

I know what you mean. It’s difficult to get a priest anywhere these days, even with an appointment.

 

[ProVobis]

I trust that when you have recovered your health you will be volunteering for the hospital visitation ministry in your parish. The only logical thing for you to do.

Matthew

Pretty soon we’ll be exchanging communion.

 

[ProVobis]

I would also advise you to not argue with the lay person who came to bring you the Eucharist.

I wonder if they’ll add it to your hospital bill.

 

[drafdog]

And exactly what is the pay scale for persons bringing the Eucharist to hospitals and shut-ins? I’m sure that they don’t get much.
There is a standard rule about payment for delivery of goods and services. “Quality, delivery, price… Pick two; you can’t have all three.”
If you want a quality product or service at a low cost, you must sacrifice delivery time. It will be given a lower priority over other jobs.
If you want quick delivery and low price, you’ll sacrifice quality.
If you want quick delivery and high quality, you’ll pay a premium.
Right now I don’t think these people are being payed to do this. It’s a volunteer ministry. The formula says you get what you pay for. You pay nothing, you’ll get nothing. Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive. If we paid any attention to the scripture, we would be paying these people to be trained and to perform the work. If not, don’t complain about the job.

Matthew

 

[jmcrae]

And exactly what is the pay scale for persons bringing the Eucharist to hospitals and shut-ins? I’m sure that they don’t get much.

They’re volunteers, for the most part. I’ve never heard of anyone getting paid specifically to distribute the Eucharist. (Priests are paid a salary for doing everything that they do; I don’t think it’s itemized by task.)

 

[Marauder]

[Edited]

Yes there are poorly trained EMHCs both in the ministry of the sick and outside, that doesn’t mean all of them are. All EMHCs should get proper training. My church paid a portion of the cost for EMHCs at my church to attend archdiocese level training and then had local training to handle the specifics of the parish. They also require the parish training every couple of years to continue assisting. Then if you help out with hospital ministry, the nun responsable for scheduling goes with you the first time, to let you know the specifics of dealing with the hospital.

Of course this can’t prevent people that may get all the training and still do stuff wrong, but in order to help with that people need to report issues to the pastor.

Not all parishes have all this training, some just say here’s a book and what you do, go do it. That is the fault of the pastor and/or the coordinator of the ministry. But all should have formal training.

 

[drafdog]

We have in this thread and many others on this forum the complaint that extraordinary ministers of eucharist are poorly trained or completely untrained. I’m suggesting that the scripture should be honored: the laborer is worthy of his hire. Make these people complete successfully (yes, that means there will be a test at the end) a course in eucharistic sacramental theology so that they really know what they are doing. Pay them a reasonable wage plus mileage. Then and only then let them do the work. No more volunteers, just knowledgeable ministers of the sacrament being paid to take some of the load off the shoulders of the overworked clergy.

Matthew

 

[Cristiano]

We have in this thread and many others on this forum the complaint that extraordinary ministers of eucharist are poorly trained or completely untrained. I’m suggesting that the scripture should be honored: the laborer is worthy of his hire. Make these people complete successfully (yes, that means there will be a test at the end) a course in eucharistic sacramental theology so that they really know what they are doing. Pay them a reasonable wage plus mileage. Then and only then let them do the work. No more volunteers, just knowledgeable ministers of the sacrament being paid to take some of the load off the shoulders of the overworked clergy.

Matthew

I completely disagree with you on the Church’s employees concept. We must count on the volunteers’ work, that is what the Church is about (acts of mercy and charity). I completely agree with you that there is nothing wrong in proper instruction and testing of the volunteers. If you truly want to serve the Lord then you are willing to submit to instruction and verification.

 

[drafdog]

Typical attitude. Don’t pay the worker in spite of what the Pope said in his encyclical. The laborer is worthy of his hire. [Edited]
Matthew

 

[drafdog]

My previous post was edited by a moderator who thought it showed contempt of the church. Far from it. I hold the bureaucracy in contempt and as we all know the bureaucracy is not the church.
Herewith an edited version of the line removed from the previous post.

But the Catholic bureaucracy doesn’t believe in scripture or it would indeed pay people to do the work.

Matthew

 

[Cristiano]

My previous post was edited by a moderator who thought it showed contempt of the church. Far from it. I hold the bureaucracy in contempt and as we all know the bureaucracy is not the church.
Herewith an edited version of the line removed from the previous post.

But the Catholic bureaucracy doesn’t believe in scripture or it would indeed pay people to do the work.

Matthew

Right and we should also call my Bishop complaining that my pastor should earn ~$125,000/year because he manages a parish with a ~$2,000,000/year budget and ~18,000 souls.

What happened to treasure, time, and talent?