Eucharistic ministers....oh boy

[Tarpeian_Rock]

As far as I know the GIRM only permits priests to fraction the hosts.

Surely “fractioning” has a specific meaning in a liturgical context that is not applicable to the kinds of situations mentioned here: running out of Hosts, nursing homes, etc., unless it is your position that only priests are able to bring the Eucharist to elderly infirm unable to consume an entire Host.

 

[TimothyH]

Same here. But as my occupation is my livelyhood i doubt that i would be able to perform as a deacon ought to.

Even a concencrated crumb is the whole of Christ.

This is definitely off topic here but when I went to the inquiry meetings here in the Archdioces of Atlanta, we were told that our first responsiblity was to God, to our own salvation - our prayer life and our sacramental life. Nothing should come before that.

After our own salvation comes our responsibility to our family, then our job, and only after that comes the diaconate. When push comes to shove, the covenant relationship for a married deacon and his ability to feed his family come before his service to the Church as a deacon.

I have no idea what other bishops have to say about the issue and notice that you are in Canada, but Archbishop Gregory in Atlanta wrote the National Directory for the Formation, Ministry, and Life of Permanent Deacons in the United States and I know his policy in this regard is clearly stated. Many deacons have written agreements with their pastors which set approriate limits.

-Tim-

 

[YoungTradCath]

Surely “fractioning” has a specific meaning in a liturgical context that is not applicable to the kinds of situations mentioned here: running out of Hosts, nursing homes, etc., unless it is your position that only priests are able to bring the Eucharist to elderly infirm unable to consume an entire Host.

I use the term fractioning here to refer to the licit practice of breaking the hosts in order to have enough to distribute.

 

[R_C]

And if only priests and deacons distributed communion then the title of the thread would be, “Deacons as ordinary ministers of communion… oh boy”

• The deacon’s hands are not consecrated.
• The deacon’s hands are not purified at the lavabo.
• Prior to deacons were not the ordinary ministers of communion. It’s an innovation.
• The deacon might have had sex with his wife that morning.

St. Lawrence himself could be distributing communion and it wouldn’t matter. There will always be a complaint.

-Tim-

Wow, Tim I was sort of rejoicing in the fact that deacons are to an extent ordained ministers, but you are right (and, think about it, who could ever properly distribute the Holy Eucharist? We can only try our best, but He is still God whom us poor sinners are holding in our hands…!).

 

[TimothyH]

Wow, Tim I was sort of rejoicing in the fact that deacons are to an extent ordained ministers, but you are right (and, think about it, who could ever properly distribute the Holy Eucharist? We can only try our best, but He is still God whom us poor sinners are holding in our hands…).

To be fully honest: I have never seen an occasion (except some large Masses celebrated by the Holy Father or a bishop, but I mean in ordinary life) where the priest could not have given Holy Communion personally Not complaining here, just saying.

We can seat close to 1000 in our Church and have 30 minutes - 25 minutes if the homily goes long - to turn over between Masses. One priest and one deacon arn’t going to cut it. People will swallow and run and that isn’t a solution.

Churches down south, at least here in Atlanta, tend to be larger and further apart.

-Tim-

 

[Saints_Alive]

Back in the good old days, we never had to worry about…

Oh, never mind.

 

[SMHW]

I use the term fractioning here to refer to the licit practice of breaking the hosts in order to have enough to distribute.

Yes, we know. But we are doubtful that any references to “fractioning” in the G.I.R.M. refer to this breaking of hosts and would thus limit who has permission to do so.

 

[R_C]

We can seat close to 1000 in our Church

Which is one more reason why I took that last phrase back in a later edit

 

[Deacon2Be]

This is definitely off topic here but when I went to the inquiry meetings here in the Archdioces of Atlanta, we were told that our first responsiblity was to God, to our own salvation - our prayer life and our sacramental life. Nothing should come before that.

After our own salvation comes our responsibility to our family, then our job, and only after that comes the diaconate. When push comes to shove, the covenant relationship for a married deacon and his ability to feed his family come before his service to the Church as a deacon.

I have no idea what other bishops have to say about the issue and notice that you are in Canada, but Archbishop Gregory in Atlanta wrote the National Directory for the Formation, Ministry, and Life of Permanent Deacons in the United States and I know his policy in this regard is clearly stated. Many deacons have written agreements with their pastors which set approriate limits.

-Tim-

I am currently an “Aspirant” for the permanent diaconate. We were told exactly that, Tim: Family, job, Diaconate. That is the priority. We’ve also been warned that at times some priests will try to take advantage of you, and give you too many responsibilities, which may lead to the above prioritized order to be somewhat askew. They mentioned that, once ordained, you will definitely need to set limits on how much time you are able to give to the parish/ministry.

And to go back on topic - there is nothing wrong, at all, with a EMHC breaking hosts to be able to make sure that all who wish to receive can do so.

Mike

 

[japhy]

I use the term fractioning here to refer to the licit practice of breaking the hosts in order to have enough to distribute.

But in the normal practice of the Roman Rite (Extraordinary and Ordinary), the Fraction Rite is hardly about “breaking the hosts in order to have enough to distribute”. While that may have been part of its function in the beginning, nowadays it is far more symbolic than functional.

 

[triumphguy]

But in the normal practice of the Roman Rite (Extraordinary and Ordinary), the Fraction Rite is hardly about “breaking the hosts in order to have enough to distribute”. While that may have been part of its function in the beginning, nowadays it is far more symbolic than functional.

Since only one Host is broken at that time…

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

I had a priest ask me to do that one time, because the crowd was bigger than we had anticipated. It’s not sacrilege; it’s just that more people came to the Mass than were expected.

Luckily I didn’t actually have to do it, since my line-up was relatively short.

It would have been worse :blush:for the EMHC to give blessings after he ran out of hosts, I expect.

One of our FSSP priests did that recently during a daily Mass when he was running low. It has also happened that he ran out of hosts once during a week day Mass. Some people just didn’t receive and made a spiritual communion instead. Not the end of the world.

 

[SMHW]

I am always surprised that so many people find the practice of breaking hosts so that all can receive to be unusual.

Maybe it’s just because I’m getting old.

But even when I was a child it was very common to see the priests break hosts when they were running out and there were still people in line.

Or maybe I’ve just had lots of experience sitting were I am last in line for communion.

 

[paperwight66]

I wish I could remember where I read this anecdote, but in one of the lives of the saints I’ve read - possibly St. Therese (the Little Flower), possibly St. Teresa of Avila, there is the account of a nun being very convinced that she received more grace from Holy Communion the larger the Host. So the priest used to deliberately break the Host before he gave it to her so that he could emphasise that she received Jesus the same whether the Host was large or small.

The point being that even then - eithHr 19th century or 16th century, depending on which Teresa, the practice of breaking the host was acceptable…

 

[Gorgias]

Yes, we know. But we are doubtful that any references to “fractioning” in the G.I.R.M. refer to this breaking of hosts and would thus limit who has permission to do so.

Correct. Note that GIRM #83 speaks of fractioning as a Rite, and in this context, it takes place prior to the reception of communion (which is described in #84ff). Moreover, it finishes prior to reception of communion (the text speaks about the completion of the fraction rite).

In this context – the fraction rite itself – the fractioning is limited to the celebrant, concelebrant(s), or deacons.

Therefore, any breaking of hosts in the context of the distribution of communion does not fall into the context of GIRM 83; and therefore, we can’t say that this paragraph applies to EMHCs and the distribution of communion…

 

[Lapey]

Correct. Note that GIRM #83 speaks of fractioning as a Rite, and in this context, it takes place prior to the reception of communion (which is described in #84ff). Moreover, it finishes prior to reception of communion (the text speaks about the completion of the fraction rite).

In this context – the fraction rite itself – the fractioning is limited to the celebrant, concelebrant(s), or deacons.

Therefore, any breaking of hosts in the context of the distribution of communion does not fall into the context of GIRM 83; and therefore, we can’t say that this paragraph applies to EMHCs and the distribution of communion…

Well stated brother, thanks!

 

[hannajomar]

I wish I could remember where I read this anecdote, but in one of the lives of the saints I’ve read - possibly St. Therese (the Little Flower), possibly St. Teresa of Avila, there is the account of a nun being very convinced that she received more grace from Holy Communion the larger the Host. So the priest used to deliberately break the Host before he gave it to her so that he could emphasise that she received Jesus the same whether the Host was large or small.

The point being that even then - eithHr 19th century or 16th century, depending on which Teresa, the practice of breaking the host was acceptable…

I’m also thinking St. Therese, the Little Flower. What I remember is that she prayed and told Jesus that if He was coming to her in Holy Communion because He had to, to only allow her to receive a half Host. If He was coming to her because He truly wanted to, allow her to receive a whole Host. The next time she received Holy Communion, she received two Hosts stuck together.

 

[thistle]

Went to church last night, the extraordinary minister that gave me communion cracked some of Blessed Sacrament in half because he thought he would run out. I stopped giving out communion at mass because i just didn’t think i should be doing it and for personal reasons. Are they allowed to do this? Could it be considered sacrilege?

As a separate issue regarding the thread title, EMHC’s are NOT Eucharistic Ministers. No lay people can be that. The priest is the Eucharistic Minister.

 

[englishredrose]

One of our FSSP priests did that recently during a daily Mass when he was running low. It has also happened that he ran out of hosts once during a week day Mass. Some people just didn’t receive and made a spiritual communion instead. Not the end of the world.

It not spiritually the end of the world if you say so Deo ( I say carefully so people don’t th think I said that point the finger again) perhaps but for the individual who may be at Mass as a last resort and feels like thats gone wrong on them too and jumps because it was the final straw of everything and ideally that person would aim to catch the priest but when one is feeling that bad and is all going wrong for them in their mind then missing the host could be last straw. Unlikely, I would hope, but could be…

I had the opposite once where I was the only one and stood there chewing away what felt like for too long shared I think what was his host but embarrassing the other way round:blush:

 

[poche]

Yes, they are allowed to do that. Even if you recieve 1/2 of the host or 1/4 of the host, you are recieving the whole of Jesus’ body, blood, soul, and divinity.