Eucharistic Miracle

[NPC]

Thanks for your reply.

Naju is not the only false apparition that this couple promotes. Not only do they sell online videos and books, but they also form weekly prayer groups. Their team also translates Naju books into other languages to promote it worldwide.

I tried to reason with them using church doctrines and CDF decrees to point out that are promoting an occult. They refuse to listen to anything rational. They believe that if the church persecutes them then they will become martyrs.

This is very alarming to me, because they are endangering so many Catholics. I wanted to tell them that are excommunicated so that will knock some sense into them. But I tried to read the Bishop’s decree over and over again, and am still not clear if people who promote Naju overseas are excommunicated as well.

What are the church laws regarding the promotion of occults?

What are the church laws regarding “not being in unity” with the church? Does that mean that they are living in mortal sin and therefore not able to receive the Eucharist? This couple serve as Eurcharistic ministers at several parishes in their community.

Unfortunately, it is often very difficult to reason with such people. I know of one supposed visionary here in Ireland who has been exposed after many lengthy newspaper investigations, as well as the archbishop declaring that her “house of prayer” does not enjoy the confidence of the archdiocesan authorities, yet so many people continue to promote her cause and there is no reasoning with them.

The couple to which you refer, as with many other people who are convinced that they are right and the Church authorities are wrong ultimately have a great distrust of Christ Himself. Christ promised that the Apostles (and their successors) would be guided in the truth by the Holy Spirit - so either the couple are right, the Church is wrong and Christ is a liar (in which case, one must conclude rationally that they cannot possibly be Christians since Christ Himself is THE Truth), or Christ did actually mean what He said and that the Church is being led to the correct decision on this matter. As followers of Christ, who is the Truth, we must conclude that the latter is correct, and in such a matter of faith we should submit in humble obedience to the Church’s decision, for in doing so, we put our trust in Christ Himself - which is no less than we profess to do as His followers anyway.

 

[akhoang]

This couple that I referred to is my aunt and uncle.

I have to put a stop to them because they are endangering the rest of my family. My uncle even went as far as lying to me to try to recruit me into his occult.

This makes me very sad to witness that he and his group are operating this occult right within the church community.

 

[NPC]

This couple that I referred to is my aunt and uncle.

I have to put a stop to them because they are endangering the rest of my family. My uncle even went as far as lying to me to try to recruit me into his occult.

This makes me very sad to witness that he and his group are operating this occult right within the church community.

I’m sorry to hear that - I know the family connection probably makes things complicated when trying to address such a sensitive issue.

Whatever you do or say to them, make sure that it is always done in a spirit of charity - though you may detest their support for certain purported visionaries, being overly forceful may well cause them to respond in a similar manner & they may just dig their heels in. You need to arm yourself with the Truth - don’t underestimate the power of prayer, as well as making sure that you have your facts straight. Perhaps you could seek the guidance of a trusted priest if the issue is really troubling you.

 

[akhoang]

Thank you. I will take your advice and not be forceful towards them.

 

[Holly3278]

Julia Kim is a devout Catholic who I believe has experienced several of these Eucharistic miracles. She is somewhat of a mystic I believe.

 

[NPC]

Julia Kim is a devout Catholic who I believe has experienced several of these Eucharistic miracles. She is somewhat of a mystic I believe.

If she is such a devout Catholic then why does she continue to disobey the decree of her bishop and encourage others to do so? She does not, as the archbishop said, desire to be in union and harmony with the Church - so she can hardly be described as a “devout Catholic”. I have said it here on CAF many times that while we ought to be able to judge such things by their fruits, I believe that any apparitions, messages, shrines, etc., which actively encourage the faithful - as Julia Kim does - to disregard the guidance and decrees of a successor of the Apostles is bearing a particularly rotten fruit. The Blessed Mother, for example, would never be encouraging the faithful to go against the decrees of the bishop, whom Christ has appointed, as a successor of the Apostles, to guide the Church in the Truth.

The Archbishop has found that there is no veracity to Julia Kim’s claims, so why should you think you know better than him? If you want a Eucharistic miracle, you need not go any further than the Holy Mass - a miracle which happens every day, in which you yourself can receive Christ, and one which you know to be true.

 

[akhoang]

Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich wrote “I see many excommunicated ecclesiastics who do not seem to be concerned about it, or even aware of it. Yet, they are excommunicated whenever they cooperate to enterprises, enter into associations, and embrace opinions on which an anathema [excommunication] has been cast. It can be seen thereby that God ratifies the decrees, orders and interdictions issued by the Head of the Church, and that He keeps them in force even though men show no concern for them, reject them, or laugh them to scorn. . . .”

Remember that even though you reject the Decrees, God will still keep them enforced! God gave the Bishops power; what they “bind on earth shall be bound in heaven.” (Matt 16:19).

Jesus said: “None of those who cry out, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of God but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. When that day comes, many will plead with me, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? Have we not exorcised demons by its power? Did we not do many miracles in your name as well?’ Then I will declare solemnly to them: ‘I never knew you. Out of my sight, you evildoers!’” (Mt 7:15-23).

 

[Stylites]

Julia Kim is a devout Catholic who I believe has experienced several of these Eucharistic miracles. She is somewhat of a mystic I believe.

The better thing to say is: “I don’t personally know Julia Kim, and will defer to what her bishop says of her, lest I promote disunity and falsehood or nurture a spirit of pride.”

 

[akhoang]

I know that when an apparition occurs, it is the “Diocesan” Bishop’s responsibility to investigate it. What ever decision he makes will be final, and will apply to the rest of the world. Bishops in other parts of the world do not have jurisdiction.

Where can I find this “law” in writing? I tried to locate it in Canon Law but was not able to find it.

The reason why I ask this question is because I need to prove to my uncle that it is the “Diocesan” Bishop who has full authority when it comes to private revelations.

Thanks!

 

[BluesPicker]

If the “Dissappearing Oil Slick” article in Spirit Daily is how accurate they are I would not believe Nothing on that site.

NPC : ditto!!! .

   There has not been one single apparition in the History of the Roman Catholic Church that  was  disapproved and condemned by the Diocesan Bishop  that  the  Pope went against.

      On the contrary as at  Lourdes, many  people became visionaries and went to the Grotto.   None of them were approved by the bishop.  Most were good Catholics in good standing with the Church.  The ones that obeyed the bishop can only remember seeing a dark shadow and  a red light.  The ones that disobeyed,  ended up in a bad way.

   While even approved apparitions we may reject and be in good standing with the Church  but  disapproved will get you in the camp of the enemy  quickly. 

   What  does the  Bishop of Rome say about this?   

       The power of the devil can be express in extraordiary means.    I will find the Canon Laws mentioned.

 

[NPC]

I know that when an apparition occurs, it is the “Diocesan” Bishop’s responsibility to investigate it. What ever decision he makes will be final, and will apply to the rest of the world. Bishops in other parts of the world do not have jurisdiction.

Where can I find this “law” in writing? I tried to locate it in Canon Law but was not able to find it.

The reason why I ask this question is because I need to prove to my uncle that it is the “Diocesan” Bishop who has full authority when it comes to private revelations.

Thanks!

From the Code of Canon Law:

• On the role and duties of the bishop:

Can. 381 §1. A diocesan bishop in the diocese entrusted to him has all ordinary, proper, and immediate power which is required for the exercise of his pastoral function except for cases which the law or a decree of the Supreme Pontiff reserves to the supreme authority or to another ecclesiastical authority.

Can. 386 §2. Through more suitable means, he is firmly to protect the integrity and unity of the faith to be believed, while nonetheless acknowledging a just freedom in further investigating its truths.

Can. 391 §1. It is for the diocesan bishop to govern the particular church entrusted to him with legislative, executive, and judicial power according to the norm of law.

§2. The bishop exercises legislative power himself. He exercises executive power either personally or through vicars general or episcopal vicars according to the norm of law. He exercises judicial power either personally or through the judicial vicar and judges according to the norm of law.

Can. 392 §1. Since he must protect the unity of the universal Church, a bishop is bound to promote the common discipline of the whole Church and therefore to urge the observance of all ecclesiastical laws.

§2. He is to exercise vigilance so that abuses do not creep into ecclesiastical discipline, especially regarding the ministry of the word, the celebration of the sacraments and sacramentals, the worship of God and the veneration of the saints, and the administration of goods.

Can. 393 The diocesan bishop represents his diocese in all its juridic affairs.

On the Rights and Obligations on all the Christian Faithful:

Can. 216 Since they participate in the mission of the Church, all the Christian faithful have the right to promote or sustain apostolic action even by their own undertakings, according to their own state and condition. Nevertheless, no undertaking is to claim the name Catholic without the consent of competent ecclesiastical authority.

Can. 214 The Christian faithful have the right to worship God according to the prescripts of their own rite approved by the legitimate pastors of the Church and to follow their own form of spiritual life so long as it is consonant with the doctrine of the Church.

On the Function of the Church:

Can. 835 §1. The bishops in the first place exercise the sanctifying function; they are the high priests, the principal dispensers of the mysteries of God, and the directors, promoters, and guardians of the entire liturgical life in the church entrusted to them.

Can. 838 §4. Within the limits of his competence, it pertains to the diocesan bishop in the Church entrusted to him to issue liturgical norms which bind everyone.

• It is very clear that for anyone outside of the jurisdiction of the archbishop in question to go against his ruling would be to undermine the authority that canon law assures him of. What authority would the archbishop have if, having declared that certain events have no supernatural origin and that the faithful are to keep away from the persons/shrines involved, the bishop in the neighbouring diocese attempted to make a judgement on something which is not even in his jurisdiction?

Anyway, this should not be reduced to a mere question of diocesan boundaries - it is about a pastor of the Church who has issued instructions to the faithful for the good of their faith and spiritual welfare.

 

[BluesPicker]

NPC,
Ditto on all your posts.

          I  am interested to know if   Julia Kim   ingested  this alleged   Eucharistic miracle (?).   Previously   her statement  in the  90's   were   something to the effect that she swallowed the Host  but  a  portion remained in her mouth and  it  grew.  Then she showed  people the blood and gore and swallowed it.  

       In  true  Eucharistic miracles  the Host that changes is preserved.   

    There has not been in the History of the Church one single apparition   that the Diocesan Bishop  condemned   that  Rome overturned.

      Thanks for  looking up the Canon Laws.

 

[akhoang]

NPC and BluesPickers for all your help, I appreciate it. I will use the info that you gave me to formulate my argument.

Since this thread is titled “Eucharistic Miracle”…I would like to ask another question on that same topic.

** What is the official Catholic Church view on intercommunion and its relationship to Christian unity? **

I was taught that the moment Jesus died on the cross, the Catholic Church was born. The Catholic Church became the Mystical Body of Christ with Jesus as the Head of the Body, and together they became united like the Bridegroom and Bride. The Pope, through Apostolic Succession, became the Vicar of Christ representing Jesus’ Head on earth. The Mystical Body of Christ has already been established here on earth, it is a visible community that has always existed and will always continue to exist. This defines the “One, Holy, Catholic And Apostolic Church.”

It makes me angry that many false seers out there keep claiming that the Mystical Body of Christ has been “broken” into pieces. Each body part representing a Christian denomination that had previously broke off from the Mystical Body of Christ. They promote unity through intercommunion, in which they believe the mere act of sharing communion between various Christian churches, IS unity itself. The Eucharist is the supreme expression of unity, not the means to achieve unity. Sharing the Eucharist despite having different doctrinal differences defeats the purpose of unity.

Saint Augustine said: “Christ the Lord… hallowed at his table the mystery of our peace and unity. Whoever receives the mystery of unity without preserving the bonds of peace receives not a mystery for his benefit but evidence against himself.”

There is no salvation outside of the Body of Christ, so how can an assembly of fragmented body parts create salvation? The common underlying theme behind false apparitions is to move people away from the Body of Christ, outside of the wall of salvation. They do this by creating ecumenical disorder, placing themselves above the law, ignoring Decrees and promoting disobedience. All of this paves the way for “all religions are equal” type of heresies such as pan-religion and indifferentism.

In the MORTALIUM ANIMOS, Pope Pius XI wrote:

"As therefore in the true Christian community there is only one Body, one Spirit, one Lord, and one Baptism, so there can be only one faith.[18] And therefore if a man refuse to hear the Church let him be considered—so the Lord commands—as a heathen and a publican.[19] It follows that those are divided in faith or government cannot be living in the unity of such a Body, nor can they be living the life of its one Divine Spirit.
“As long as a member still forms part of the body there is no reason to despair of its cure; once it has been cut off, it can be neither cured nor healed.”
"the union of Christians can only be promoted by promoting the return to the one true Church of Christ of those who are separated from it, for in the past they have unhappily left it… it were foolish and out of place to say that the mystical body is made up of members which are disunited and scattered abroad: whosoever therefore is not united with the body is no member of it, neither is he in communion with Christ its head."

In the MYSTICI CORPORIS CHRISTI, Pope Pius XII wrote:

"The celebration of the Eucharist, however, cannot be the starting-point for communion; it presupposes that communion already exists, a communion which it seeks to consolidate and bring to perfection. The sacrament is an expression of this bond of communion both in its invisible dimension, which, in Christ and through the working of the Holy Spirit, unites us to the Father and among ourselves, and in its visible dimension, which entails communion in the teaching of the Apostles, in the sacraments and in the Church’s hierarchical order. "

“While it is never legitimate to concelebrate in the absence of full communion, the same is not true with respect to the administration of the Eucharist under special circumstances, to individual persons belonging to Churches or Ecclesial Communities not in full communion with the Catholic Church. In this case, in fact, the intention is to meet a grave spiritual need for the eternal salvation of an individual believer, not to bring about an intercommunion which remains impossible until the visible bonds of ecclesial communion are fully re-established.”

“They, therefore, walk in the path of dangerous error who believe that they can accept Christ as the Head of the Church, while not adhering loyally to His Vicar on earth”