M
Maximilian75
Guest
The one in my post? this?
- Status
G
Gorgias
Guest
So, the “photo from above” clearly identifies that the priest prays the prayer and the congregation prays the “amen.”
How does that support your case, then?
H
Hodos
Guest
Because this would be considered a matter of Christian liberty (Romans 14), and given that the priest has provided instruction within the service, I see no issue with respecting his request as he is obviously trying to make a point using the liturgy as his tool. I find it laughable that someone above would think that a bishop would find this as a matter deserving church discipline upon the priest. But hey, its your hill to die on if you choose.So, the “photo from above” clearly identifies that the priest prays the prayer and the congregation prays the “amen.”
How does that support your case, then?
M
Maximilian75
Guest
Sure, this is a waste of time for a local ordinary. Absolutely.
OP, show the priest the Missal and then that quotation from the CIC. If he continues to do this, do what your conscience leads you to do.
But your arguing that this is licit/valid, in spite of the CIC, is absurd.
Last edited:
F
Fauken
Guest
Darn it, @(name removed by moderator), how dare you bring up relevant Papal documents into this thread and cease our bickering! 
C
CilladeRoma
Guest
You should never send your Pastor an anonymous letter either.
If you are going to complain about something, own it.
If you are going to complain about something, own it.
1
1Lord1Faith
Guest
The assumption here, which I am not making, is that the priest’s intention is for the congregation to “say these words along with me”. But that isn’t what the OP said that the priest said. The OP never quoted the priest, but the OP paraphrased the priest’s words as follows: “pray together with me”. You do see that there is difference.1Lord1Faith:
Umm… are we reading the same post?MCMC:
You didn’t say that the priest said “say these words along with me”.
The OP hasn’t been back to clarify anything so I still cannot assume that the priest is wrong.
P
Phemie
Guest
It reminds me of my home parish where this practice had developed with one particular priest. Then a visiting priest was filling in one Sunday and when the congregation started reciting the Doxology he stopped and said, “I don’t know what you think you’re doing but this part of the prayer is recited by the priest ALONE.” Then he restarted.
They used to also recite the Doxology of the Lord’s Prayer.
They used to also recite the Doxology of the Lord’s Prayer.
P
Phemie
Guest
So sorry, please forgive me. 
(I would like to say it won’t happen again, BUT, I can almost promise that it will.)
[/quote]
I certainly hope so - that it will happen again that is, not that you’re sorry.
Just in case someone thinks “Oh well, that document you quoted came out in 1980 and we’ve got a new Code of Canon Law and a new GIRM since then,” let me direct them to 2004’s Redemptionis Sacramentum, which reiterates it as it does so many other previous instructions that folks seemed to have never heard of.
(I would like to say it won’t happen again, BUT, I can almost promise that it will.)
[/quote]
I certainly hope so - that it will happen again that is, not that you’re sorry.
Just in case someone thinks “Oh well, that document you quoted came out in 1980 and we’ve got a new Code of Canon Law and a new GIRM since then,” let me direct them to 2004’s Redemptionis Sacramentum, which reiterates it as it does so many other previous instructions that folks seemed to have never heard of.
G
Gorgias
Guest
Given Mt 16:19, wouldn’t that be at the discretion of the Pope and the Church?
And, inasmuch as they have spoken on this matter, and declared that individual priests have no authority over the Mass, wouldn’t we conclude that unilateral changes aren’t sanctioned by the Church and are not licit?
So… let’s suppose that a police officer does have authority to make certain decisions based on discretion (e.g., whether or not to pull a person over for a traffic stop), but does not have authority to make all discretionary decisions (e.g., having witnessed a homicide, whether to detain a suspect). Would you have “no issue with respecting his request” if he watches a person get gunned down, but does not act? It’s the same issue here: one may not act above and beyond the authority given him.
- The liturgy is not a tool to a greater end.
- If he does not have the authority to take an action in order to ‘make a point’, then he may not do so. After all, “the end does not justify the means.”
Ahh, young grasshopper… that is a distinctly different point, now, isn’t it?
There are wrongs that are committed which are not enforced. It doesn’t make them right, however…
G
Gorgias
Guest
I would, if there were a distinction here. However, it seems that you’re making a “distinction without a difference.” After all, the OP literally wrote, “the priest always tells people at Mass to pray together with him”.
I would find it hard to believe that a Catholic would object to a priest saying “fully, actively participate in the Mass by praying – without speaking out loud – these words that I pray out loud.” On the other hand, Catholics would be confused if their priest was saying “yeah… go ahead and speak the prayers that are reserved to me.”
M
MCMC
Guest
He said " Together!" before he prayed that. And at certain point, he asked all people to ‘raise your arms!’ during the Introductory Rites.
G
Gorgias
Guest
Right. So, contra @1Lord1Faith, he really was directing ya’ll to pray the prayer reserved to him.
T
Telstar
Guest
I would perhaps try to say something to him, but if he does this as a regular practice, he’s probably not going to listen to you. I think I would call the chancery or write a letter to the Bishop to report this. It is a serious liturgical abuse that should not be allowed to continue. No Priest has the right to make any changes in the rubrics of the Mass for any reason. Only the Magisterium has that power, and one Priest does not a Magisterium make.
- Status