Eucharistic Prayers for Masses With Children: oh yes, they're still here

[MarkThompson]

I know it has been popular in some circles to promote speculation that the Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children are going to be dropped when the new translation comes into effect, even when official sources were essentially saying the precise opposite.

I’ve never heard any of these prayers used, and I’m sure I would find them awful. However, according to the Archdiocese of Chicago’s Office for Divine Worship, this is latest word on Rome’s position:
The USCCB has received clarification and guidelines from Rome regarding the Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children and the Collection of Masses of the Blessed Virgin Mary, in light of the English translation of the Third Edition of the Roman Missal.

All of these liturgical texts will be revised in the near future. Until that time, use of ALL of these liturgical texts will be allowed after the implementation of the English translation of the Third Edition of the Roman Missal (November 26 / 27, 2011).
So don’t throw away those old Sacramentaries just yet, I guess. More at the ODW’s site, along with the welcome and friendly reminder that “the use of the Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children is restricted to Masses celebrated with children who have not yet reached the age of preadolescence (i.e., no older than 10-11 years of age) or at which at least the majority of the participants are in this category.” I will just have to make sure to continue avoiding those.

 

[Fink]

I know it has been popular in some circles to promote speculation that the Eucharistic Prayers for Masses with Children are going to be dropped when the new translation comes into effect, even when official sources were essentially saying the precise opposite.

I’ve never heard any of these prayers used, and I’m sure I would find them awful.

Theyre worse than awful: theyre indescribably hideous!

I will just have to make sure to continue avoiding those.

You certainly will!

The bit about being restricted to children of no nore than 10 or 11yo is an indication of the skewed outlook of the adults who think that. IMHO, the stuff is an insult to the intelligence of normal children over the age of 5 or 6!

Seriously, subjecting normal children to that stuff is a disgrace; and it doesnt say much for the "adults" involved! :( Add utterly woeful jingles, rather than hymns, to the "Childrens Liturgy", and you have a circus! Some (the great majority, more likely) of these unfortunate children will never discover the rich store of true Catholic music and singing, or decent liturgy.

 

[ProVobis]

The bit about being restricted to children of no nore than 10 or 11yo is an indication of the skewed outlook of the adults who think that. IMHO, the stuff is an insult to the intelligence of normal children over the age of 5 or 6!
Seriously, subjecting normal children to that stuff is a disgrace; and it doesnt say much for the "adults" involved! :( Add utterly woeful jingles, rather than hymns, to the "Childrens Liturgy", and you have a circus! Some (the great majority, more likely) of these unfortunate children will never discover the rich store of true Catholic music and singing, or decent liturgy.

So are you saying they have no pastoral value? I’m sure that in the 60’s there were many whose intelligence was insulted when the Mass was vernacularized or priests starting facing the people. Yet the Church felt they were of some benefit to many.

 

[Phemie]

I’ve only ever heard one of those EPs and it was used at a Mass where 98% of the assembly consisted of adults who were taking courses on Religious Ed and Liturgy to help in their work in their parishes. There was no mention whatsoever at any time that this was one of the EP for Children, so it wasn’t used as a teaching tool; I only stumbled upon that information when I found the supplement to our Sacramentary which contained those EPs.

The next year the same priest celebrated the Mass during that course of study and made the comment that he’d be using the Sacramentary so that no one would believe he was using unapproved prayers – evidence that some people had complained after the Mass the year before.

 

[Fink]

So are you saying they have no pastoral value? I’m sure that in the 60’s there were many whose intelligence was insulted when the Mass was vernacularized or priests starting facing the people. Yet the Church felt they were of some benefit to many.

Theres a big difference between vernacularising the Mass with the priest facing the people, and the material thats often dished out to helpless children for whom the offending adults should have more respect (at least, for their intelligence).

This form of liturgy (and the jingles) might have some pastoral value for 5 or 6 year olds, as inferred in that first post; but to subject senior primary school children to it, as “they” do at the local Catholic primary school, must do more damage than good. Couple that with woeful “catechesis”; and is it any wonder so many fall away when they leave school? What they`re “taught” about God and His Church is a caricature!

Having endured what goes on at the local 9:30 Friday Mass, i can speak from experience. Eventually, i had to stop going.

PS
i prefer the TLM; but, when correctly celebrated, the OF is OK. The “Childen`s Liturgy” is on a totally different level.

Phemie:
Could you blame those who complained?

 

[ProVobis]

This form of liturgy (and the jingles) might have some pastoral value for 5 or 6 year olds, as inferred in that first post; but to subject senior primary school children to it, as “they” do at the local Catholic primary school, must do more damage than good. Couple that with woeful “catechesis”; and is it any wonder so many fall away when they leave school? What they`re “taught” about God and His Church is a caricature!

Well, just by looking at the text,

catholic-resources.org/ChurchDocs/EPC1-3.htm

I don’t see where this is objectively damaging to anyone. After all, the Baltimore catechism was written for very young readers and in words we could understand. Of course the difference there was that it explained the Latin Mass to us and why Latin is important, something very few schools do nowadays. But I’ve already stated that vernacularizing the liturgy was insulting to those who would have gone on to study Latin.

 

[Fink]

Well, just by looking at the text,

I don’t see where this is objectively damaging to anyone.

If you were present at one, you might think differently. The wording is ; and is a lot worse when experienced in the context of the Mass. It`s just that post-kindergarten children are capable of grasping something a lot better than that! Subjecting the older ones to it is an insult to them!

Another thing is that the youngest learn by watching what the older ones do; so, inflicting the childish stuff on the older ones has a double retarding effect.

The late Isaac Asimov had a good philosophy when writing science books for children: he said that hed rather pitch the material a bit over the childrens heads, so that theyd have to stretch up a bit, than to have it so that itd be talking down to them. Thats how i feel about the so-called Childrens Liturgies. The horrible jingles just make it so much worse.
As said earlier, some (probably most) of those unfortunate children will never be exposed to the good stuff.

But I’ve already stated that vernacularizing the liturgy was insulting to those who would have gone on to study Latin.

But at least Latin remained the language of the Church; so studying Latin was (is) still worthwhile: eg reading Church documents.

And with the reviving of the TLM…

 

[ProVobis]

Another thing is that the youngest learn by watching what the older ones do; so, inflicting the childish stuff on the older ones has a double retarding effect.

Okay, there is some truth to that. Personally I learned the Mass from the pictures in my prayer book. I knew hardly a word of English when I was 5.

But at least Latin remained the language of the Church; so studying Latin was (is) still worthwhile: eg reading Church documents.

So long as there is an incentive and/or a curiosity, there will be the study.

 

[Fink]

Personally I learned the Mass from the pictures in my prayer book. I knew hardly a word of English when I was 5.

Good point. i forgot about the prayer book with the fancy full colour photographs of the very reverent middle aged priest!.
The statues were another thing to draw our attention. They were removed, smashed and buried in the mid 1970s.
The replacements were UGLY!..as you would expect.
The Stations of the Cross weren`t chucked out; but they were defaced (ie “repainted”)!

So long as there is an incentive and/or a curiosity, there will be the study.

Therell always be that, thank Goodness. For one thing, the TLM is attracting young people; and at the FSSP one i go to, almost all of the Gregorian Chant is done by the younguns. Plus they have Latin classes.

 

[ProVobis]

Good point. i forgot about the prayer book with the fancy full colour photographs of the very reverent middle aged priest!.

I don’t know what kind of pictures are in a children’s book like

neumannpress.com/stjoschilmis.html

but a sample of these classic pictures sure made the Mass easy to follow for young kids:

 

[Phemie]

I don’t know what kind of pictures are in a children’s book like

neumannpress.com/stjoschilmis.html

but a sample of these classic pictures sure made the Mass easy to follow for young kids:

It did. I used to get annoyed that I was far ahead of Fr. so I’d try to read more slowly so that I didn’t get ahead of him. Didn’t know that he had way more to read than the 3 or 4 sentences that I did.

 

[EasterJoy]

There was a time when Catholic churches (and homes, for that matter!) had enough visual content in the art and books that the advanced language of the liturgy didn’t pose a problem. Very advanced art can be accessible even to young children, the illiterate, and those who don’t speak Latin or the local language, if the content is clear.

Now, the art is so spare and abstract that if you don’t understand all the words, you don’t get a message. That’s too bad.

(That’s not to say content-laden religious art is necessarily *good *art. That is another issue!)

 

[Phemie]

Those EPs really don’t give children much credit. Children who are at Mass regularly ‘get it’ way more than we think.

I remember when I had to read at the Christmas Day Mass a few years ago. The choir felt it had done its duty by being at the Midnight Mass so there was no music or singing.

In our parish we don’t have the Alleluia unless it’s sung so Father just picked up the Gospel Book from the altar and proceeded to the ambo. From the pew behind me, where my friend was sitting with her daughter and 14 month old granddaughter, came a little voice “Alleluia? Alleluia?” That toddler got it! She’d been at Mass every Sunday since her birth and she knew what went there. So don’t try to tell me that the average 6 year old can’t understand without the Mass being dumbed down.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Dumbing down the mass to make it ‘easier’ in not a new thing. This trend is everywhere nowdays, especially in education. Children are considered unable to concentrate and learn and everything has to be done through games and play. I’m not surprised at all by this liturgy. Sounds awful and I’d never send my kids to such things. They will learn to aim towards something higher by going to normal mass for adults. It worked for centuries, but I guess people got more stupid in the 20th century so standards had to be lowered

 

[ProVobis]

There was a time when Catholic churches (and homes, for that matter!) had enough visual content in the art and books that the advanced language of the liturgy didn’t pose a problem.

I have to admit, though, it also helped to have a parent tell you what happens at the Consecration, for example.