WILKM:
Here is my reply to this chap and his responses in red. Question is … do I carry on replying to him or should I just leave it?
It depends on what you think his intentions are. Is he just out to push his views on you, or does he really want to know what the Church teaches? Here are short answers if he really wants to hear them.
WILKM:
**“Would the unbeliever have Jesus in them for a little while?”
**He would have Christ physically present in him but derive no Spiritual benefit from it.
You say no Spiritual benefit, but would Jesus Christ be in the unbeliever Spiritually? That is, can Jesus physical presence be present without the spiritual presence? Is the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit the “one” and the same spiritual presence as the spiritual presence of Christ?
The Eucharist is the complete Christ - Body, Blood, Spirit, and Divinity. Thus, all of Him would be consumed by the unbeliever and would be physically “in” the unbeliever.
Beyond that, there is obviously a difference in the use of terms of what it means for Christ to be “in” someone. When we normally say “Jesus is
in you”, we are normally referring to the mystery of how His Spirit comes to dwell in us and how our spirits are made to be like His through regenerative baptism, whereby we become children of God. This happens only through the Grace of God, and is the initial moment of our process of sanctification, or being “saved”.
However, this process is not what takes place when an unbeliever consumes the Eucharist. The Holy Spirit is “in” this person only insofar as the Spirit is in the Eucharist, which is physically inside the person’s body. Unlike baptism, there is no spiritual “connection”, if you will, between God’s Spirit and the person’s soul.
The sacrilege of profaning the Lord in the Eucharist is similar to how it was sacrilege for an ancient heretical Jew to simply waltz into the Holy of Holies, open the Ark of the Convenant, and rifle through its contents.
WILKM said:
**“Would they be indwelt by Jesus? Would they be saved for a while? How long?”
**No, they would not be “saved” for a while.
OK, not saved (at all, I presume).
Would they be indwelt by Jesus? How long?
I think the term “indwelt” has a very specific definition in many circumstances. You will need to ask him to clarify what he means by “indwelt” before you can really answer this. My response to the previous question may suffice – there is no communion of God’s Spirit and the unbeliever’s.
WILKM:
If an unbeliever or someone in a state of mortal sin consumes the Eucharist, it actually has the opposite effect and is treated as a sacrilege, not a blessing.
Treated by WHO?
and for how long?
That is, how long does a blessing or sacrilege last?
Treated by WHO? – by God (see Holy of Holies analogy)
and for how long? – until the person is fully repentant and forgiven.
WILKM:
1 Corinthians 11:27-29
Curious … what version is this?
Revised Standard Version
(answers inline):
I presume baptised means with “water”.
–Not specifically, but that is the normative means of baptism.
What does “with” mean in regard to sin? Not forgiven of a sin?
How does one become “without” sin?
–One becomes without sin through the forgiveness of God, granted through Jesus, possible because of His death and resurrection, which “wipes sin away”.
Is there a list of things considered to be “mortal sin” somewhere? in scripture?
–Not all things which are mortally sinful are explicitly listed in Scripture, but some are. Those that are not explicit can be understood from Scripture, and we have the Church’s guidance on that. See 1 John 5:16-17.
Are the two requirements that you mention based in scripture or only on Tradition? – see last response
That is, is “worthily” defined as such by scripture? – not explicitly. It has been affirmed by the Church.
Peace,
javelin
