Eucharistic sacrilege question

[timeandeternity]

I was just at Mass, and before it started, I noticed that the paten and the chalice were made out of some sort of pottery material–sort of like those pottery mug crafts you make in kindergarten (but nicer looking). The Church says that the paten and at least the inside of the chalice must be made out of “precious material” (gold used to be the rule, but it’s been broadened to include anything considered “precious”), to show proper reverence to the Body and Blood of Jesus. I began to think that this disobedience to that rule was probably a Eucharistic sacrilege, and that I should leave so that I wouldn’t be participating in it. I didn’t, however, because I wasn’t sure how wrong it would be to stay–even though I knew there was a chance that I might be participating in a sacrilege–and I’ve been afraid ever since that this was in fact just what I did. I just wasn’t sure if I should equate this kind of sacrilege (if indeed it is) with participating in a “Mass” said by a woman “priest,” for example, which would be an obvious, blatant sacrilege. Does anyone have any enlightenment? Also, should I email this church and charitably point out this problem?

 

[ljubim]

I was just at Mass, and before it started, I noticed that the paten and the chalice were made out of some sort of pottery material–sort of like those pottery mug crafts you make in kindergarten (but nicer looking). The Church says that the paten and at least the inside of the chalice must be made out of “precious material” (gold used to be the rule, but it’s been broadened to include anything considered “precious”), to show proper reverence to the Body and Blood of Jesus. I began to think that this disobedience to that rule was probably a Eucharistic sacrilege, and that I should leave so that I wouldn’t be participating in it. I didn’t, however, because I wasn’t sure how wrong it would be to stay–even though I knew there was a chance that I might be participating in a sacrilege–and I’ve been afraid ever since that this was in fact just what I did. I just wasn’t sure if I should equate this kind of sacrilege (if indeed it is) with participating in a “Mass” said by a woman “priest,” for example, which would be an obvious, blatant sacrilege. Does anyone have any enlightenment? Also, should I email this church and charitably point out this problem?

Definitely email! Also I’d bring it up in confession asap, and get a trusted confessor’s take on it.

 

[puzzleannie]

Definitely email! Also I’d bring it up in confession asap, and get a trusted confessor’s take on it.

why do any of these? if OP is not the celebrant of Mass who chose illicit vessels, he has committed no sin. If you have a question about any aspect of the way Mass is celebrated in your parish, the first step is to simply ASK the priest. If the answer is unsatisfactory, only then do you document the abuse and inform the bishop in writing, in a brief one page letter, and sign your name. make sure you have time, place, celebrant and accurate details.

 

[timeandeternity]

I’m a bit confused, puzzleannie…aren’t the Church’s guidelines pretty clear? Thanks so much for the suggestion to write to the bishop, though–I don’t know why I didn’t think of that right away…
And I’m also a little confused as to why I shouldn’t bring this up in confession, just to be safe–maybe I’m completely missing something, but I don’t quite understand your reasons for suggesting that I not bother with this. Sorry for being a pain!

 

[puzzleannie]

I’m a bit confused, puzzleannie…aren’t the Church’s guidelines pretty clear? Thanks so much for the suggestion to write to the bishop, though–I don’t know why I didn’t think of that right away…
And I’m also a little confused as to why I shouldn’t bring this up in confession, just to be safe–maybe I’m completely missing something, but I don’t quite understand your reasons for suggesting that I not bother with this. Sorry for being a pain!

your confession is for confessing yours sins, not for bringing up suspected wrong-doing by others. There is no reason at all to write to the bishop unless or until first you find out, without doubt, there is real abuse or sacrilege occuring, and then only after the priest responsible has failed to give a reasonable explanation. yes the church’s guidelines are clear, but they by no means state every lapse is a matter of sacrilege or liturgical abuse.

 

[jtodisco]

I want to begin by stating clearly that I have the highest regard for the Lord’s presence in the Holy Eucharist. I love to sit in the little chapel in my church and enjoy our Lord’s company, especially while praying the rosary. It feels like a wonderful little family reunion to me (Christ is there in the form of the Eucharist, I assume Mary is there hearing my prayers to her and to her Son, and I am there, unworthy as I may be, enjoying their regal company).

But when it comes to this issue about the vessels holding our Lord’s body and blood, I think there might be an excessive concern here. True, I agree that whenever possible the VERY BEST vessels should be used to hold our Lord. However, I do not feel that it is necessarily blasphemous to use clay vessels like the ones described. In fact, at the church I attend the vessels are all make of some sort of clay. After mass is ended the remaining hosts are placed in a gold container and then placed into the tabernacle (which is also at least gold plated).

But when I think about the Last Supper (which was the first mass) I truly doubt our Lord had some gold cups and plates on hand in which to serve Himself to His disciples. Likely they were made of stone or clay. And in the early years of the Church I also cannot see all the poor disciples running into the catacombs from bloodthirsty Roman soldiers having golden vessels on them with which to celebrate the mass. But I do not think Jesus would have been offended by any of this.

True, most churches in the Western world can afford golden vessels (and many have them) but I do not think this is something that is absolutely essential. Though it is certainly preferrable.

I may be wrong in this opinion of mine and if so I will be glad if someone would politely correct me in my error. Otherwise I hope this might have been helpful. Also, if I offended anyone by this post I’m sorry, it is not my intention to do so.

 

[timeandeternity]

I’m sorry for confusing you, puzzleannie! I wasn’t intending to bring up this priest’s wrongdoing or accuse him in any way, but was going to confess the fact that I sinned by not leaving and preventing myself from participating in a sacrilege.
Thank you for your thoughts, jtodisco. However, I just did my research, and discovered that this is actually a sacrilege. I found a Vatican document stating very clearly that it is a Eucharistic abuse to make a chalice or paten with any kind of breakable material, including glass, pottery, wood, etc. It would not result in excommunication, as would be the case with an extremely serious abuse (such as desecrating a host…it makes me cringe even thinking about that), but it does constitute a mortal sin. Puzzleannie, you’re right that I need to tread carefully here–thank you for the advice!

 

[Monica4316]

I agree with you about the vessels… the guidelines are pretty clear, the chalice and paten need to be of precious metal.

However, I wouldn’t say you sinned in any way just by being at a Mass where such vessels were used.

I’ve never seen any parish do this but it’s sad that some do

 

[jtodisco]

That’s quite troubling. I had always assumed that the same principle that applies to priests performing the mass applied to the vessels used in the mass. Since even if the priest is unworthy that doesn’t prevent the Lord from being present and from the congregation receiving Him. Similarly I had assumed that the Lord being the source of all holiness would make anything He came into contact with also holy and therefore no sacrilege could take place.

However, it would seem some of my previous concepts were incorrect. I will bring this to the attention of my priest ASAP and find out why it is that we do not have the appropriate vessels. He is a very devout man and I cannot believe for a moment that he would intentionally do anything to demean the mass or to offend our Lord.

Does anyone know how much these items cost? If they are reasonable I would love to help my church get the proper vessels (though with my minimum wage income that may take a while).

 

[puzzleannie]

I am still baffled that lay parishioner would consider themselves guilty in any way shape or form because of what the priest did wrong in the celebration of Mass or sacraments. I am also baffled that using vessels made of less than noble material would be classed as the same level of sacrilege as abuse of the Eucharistic species, dropping hosts and the like.

 

[timeandeternity]

Oh dear, it seems I’ve been confusing again–this kind of sacrilege would NOT be as serious as deliberately dropping a host or anything like that! Since I seem to have trouble explaining things clearly (I’m sorry!), here’s a site where you can read “Redemptionis Sacramentum,” which really goes in depth with this issue and others. ewtn.com/expert/answers/cdw_liturgical_abuses.htm
jtodisco, I think puzzleannie gave good advice when she said to talk to the priest involved before doing anything. It is very likely that he’s simply ignorant of this rule–after all, I only heard of it because I happened to be skimming through an old book on Catholicism. And maybe say a prayer to the Holy Spirit; his guidance and inspirations never fail!

 

[jtodisco]

Thanks for the advice. Fortunately, that’s what I planned to do anyway. In fact, I’ve already emailed my priest to ask him about all of this. I am sure he isn’t aware of this being an issue and the last thing I would want to do is get a good man into trouble for something he doesn’t even know may be wrong.