European Catholicism

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The real question is did she and to what extent?

In recent history, communists in Russia, China, Spain and in Portugal, republicans in Italy, Masons in Mexico, Nazis in Germany, Jacobins in France, etc, all martyred the clergy, the religious and the laity because they were Catholics. Evidently, the Church was more sympathetic to those who wouldn’t kill her members, but in none of these cases did she endorse their abuses or turned a blind eye, never ceasing to state the truth at the first possible moment.

:blessyou:
Amen.👍
 
But to be honest, I think an important point is being made here. When the Church (or any religious institution) cozies up to those in power, they hurt themselves by turning off those who may be on the other side of the political fence. And when the powerful is seen as being part of an authoritarian regime, that hurts doubly (such as in some parts of Central America in the past) because for many religion is supposed to be on the side of the powerless, not the powerful.
Thank you for that comment. It is so true. Please would you identify what European country you are from. It helps. You may not be from Europe, in which case this helps too.

:clapping:
 
this is the second time i have heard someone mention this ignore list.

can someone explain to me what it is and how to use it in case i need it in the future? ! LOL
 
Hi bobzills,

In your remarks it sound like that you may been brushing off as just a story. Maybe I missunderstood you remarks…

That is the only reason I wanted to correct the subject.

I much like Marley Ghost, I try to correct the person to place them on right track.

Have a good day.

Frank J
 
As someone who lives in the United Kingdom, I have to defend Europe to a certain degree.

Here in the UK Catholic congregations are growing because of an influx of Polish and other Easter European immigrants. I remember reading a few months ago that the RCC in the UK is one of the fastes growing denominations in the UK, and within 5 years will overtake the Anglican Church as the largest denomination.

So at least here, things aren’t that bad.

As for Europe, to say it will one day be an Islamic continent is completely wrong.

Yes, Islam is growing, but a large number of Islamic families in the UK, France and parts of Western Europe are seeing their children become more and more secularised as they become more Westernised.

I can name any number of people in my area who are from Islamic backgrounds, but who have stopped going to a Mosque and are wholly secular, just as many from Christian backgrounds are.

Please don’t take my post the wrong way. I appreciate that if you are outside Europe things may look bad, but that is a little like us in the UK seeing reports about the rise of Christian Fundamentalism in the US and thinking that all Christians there are like that, when we all know this isn’t true.

John
 
thanks for that inside look at catholicism in the UK. i had heard about these immigrants to england from poland and eastern europe. can you explain to me why they are moving to england at this time? i find that interesting.

well, that is good news for england, if within 5 years, catholicism will be larger than anglicanism!!! we will have to continue to pray for england and also pray for some converts to anglicanism to catholicism.

that could be true about a lot of the youth in england who stop attending the mosque and lead a secular life, however, the same thing happens here in the u.s., but eventually, people find their way back to the churches here in the 90’s. i think it might be common for people to leave religion behind and go out into the world and figure things out. but if you had a strong religious foundation as a child or a love of God as a child, you will eventually find your way back.

of course, we could also pray for conversion for the muslims to catholicism or christianity from islam.
 
What Shifnal has said may be true, but then again, the UK has always been part of a “different” Europe; meaning, the UK has always been different from continental Europe.

I regret to say this but, in fact, continental Europe (which makes for the most part of this continent) is taking a different path from the path which the UK has been going through. In some way, one could identify the UK much more easier with the US rather than with good, old, continental Europe.
 
so, you are saying that in continental Europe, people are falling away from the church and leading secular lives or that islam is growing or both?
 
Both, Deborahaz. I think there is a very clear connection between these two factors, happening simultaneously, and you can expose it this way: Islam is growing because people in continental european societies are getting more secular, and the worst of all, values and morality in people’s lifes are fading away to the point of extinction.
 
Hi!

A lot of Polish people came here after Poland joined the European Union, as did others from Eastern Europe. The work here is better and better paid.

But it isn’t only Poles. I know of many former Anglicans, Methodists etc who are converting to the RCC.

I would agree that the UK is different from the rest of Europe - we tend to have a more Internationalist outlook, and have far more in common with the USA than, say, France or Germany.

Thank you for your prayers! 🙂

John
 
Both, Deborahaz. I think there is a very clear connection between these two factors, happening simultaneously, and you can expose it this way: Islam is growing because people in continental european societies are getting more secular, and the worst of all, values and morality in people’s lifes are fading away to the point of extinction.
did the values and morals in continental europe begin fading there in the 60’s and 70’s, like they did in the u.s.?

i am also afraid, that the more technologically advanced we get and medically advanced and scientifically advanced, that people will become more secular. they don’t realize, that even though the world changes, we still remain human beings, with souls, and we still have the choices of good and evil, to sin or not to sin and that we still need God in our lives and in the world.
 
Hi!

A lot of Polish people came here after Poland joined the European Union, as did others from Eastern Europe. The work here is better and better paid.

But it isn’t only Poles. I know of many former Anglicans, Methodists etc who are converting to the RCC.

I would agree that the UK is different from the rest of Europe - we tend to have a more Internationalist outlook, and have far more in common with the USA than, say, France or Germany.

Thank you for your prayers! 🙂

John
do you think the creation of the european union is a good thing or a bad thing? i hope that these people coming to england and bringing their strong catholic faith with them, will perhaps have a good influence on the engish?

did i not read somewhere that even in ireland, catholicism has decreased?
since you are in the UK, maybe you know something about that.
 
As someone who lives in the United Kingdom, I have to defend Europe to a certain degree.

Here in the UK Catholic congregations are growing because of an influx of Polish and other Easter European immigrants. I remember reading a few months ago that the RCC in the UK is one of the fastes growing denominations in the UK, and within 5 years will overtake the Anglican Church as the largest denomination.

So at least here, things aren’t that bad.

As for Europe, to say it will one day be an Islamic continent is completely wrong.

Yes, Islam is growing, but a large number of Islamic families in the UK, France and parts of Western Europe are seeing their children become more and more secularised as they become more Westernised.

I can name any number of people in my area who are from Islamic backgrounds, but who have stopped going to a Mosque and are wholly secular, just as many from Christian backgrounds are.

Please don’t take my post the wrong way. I appreciate that if you are outside Europe things may look bad, but that is a little like us in the UK seeing reports about the rise of Christian Fundamentalism in the US and thinking that all Christians there are like that, when we all know this isn’t true.

John
Are you saying that being secularised is a good thing?:confused:
 
It is often trials and tribulations that draw us to God.

When we are doing well and everything is dandy we tend to forget how much we are dependant on the Lord.

Ireland suffered much for many years and there were many who immigrated to the United States and elsewhere. Everywhere there are people of Irish descent. The Irish contributed much in sending religious and clergy to different parts of the world. I was educated in convents with mainly Irish nuns in South Africa and I have grown to love them. In fact I consider myself a little Irish because of the formation I received. What dedicated and wonderful peole!

In recent years Ireland has experienced huge economic growth and have had to import skills. I think that there was hardly any unemployment. Life gets better financially and with affluence people tend to get caught up in the material.

:extrahappy: :whacky: :extrahappy: :tiphat:
 
Hi!

No, I’m not saying secularisation is a good thing, but it belies the idea that the whole of Europe will become Muslim one day, when many Muslims in the West are becoming secular.

EU? Not a real fan myself, but Catholicism across the EU is the dominant faith by far, so can help to mould the EU (I hope!) 🙂

John
 
Hi!

No, I’m not saying secularisation is a good thing, but it belies the idea that the whole of Europe will become Muslim one day, when many Muslims in the West are becoming secular.

EU? Not a real fan myself, but Catholicism across the EU is the dominant faith by far, so can help to mould the EU (I hope!) 🙂

John
Here is a story that will get you thinking.

An Imam said to an Anglican priest that by the end of this century all the great cathedrals will be mosques. The priest asked why and response was, “Because we have children and you don’t”.

Now, this is a true account and it does make you think. There are far too many abortions in the UK. What about drinking, drugs, violence with knives in the streets etc? What has happened to the FAMILY?

Here in South Africa I have heard of parents from affluent homes who give their children a lot of money and drop them at the Mall. The kids also go to Rave clubs and find their own way home.

When my children were in High School I used to tell them that they had to phone us to pick them up no matter the hour. My husband and I would go and pick up my son in our pyjamas and so often my son would ask us to drop some girls and we would do so even thought it was out of our way. What kind of parents allow their children to go to clubs and do not monitor the hours they keep and bring them home!

Society everywhere has gone crazy! We must bring back the FAMILY.

🤷 :gopray2: :signofcross:
 
did the values and morals in continental europe begin fading there in the 60’s and 70’s, like they did in the u.s.?
European decadence in Continental Europe began much earlier, with the dawn of the French Revolution, which was completely different from its American counterpart. The French did fought for social revolution, for the extermination of the rulling classes, for a complete and total change on the patterns of political power. In other words; it was a rupture with all of the past. That brought free masonry, anti-clericalism and many other jacobinist ideals to every land (once again, only on continental Europe) the french armies marched on.

Later on, after Napoleon was totally defeated (thank God!), Europe experimented a very long period of peace and colective security, through the union, in one Alliance, of some very powerful countries, at the time (Austria, Prussia and Russia), arround the sharing of common values and points of view - among them, monarchy, legitimacy and religion; very conservative ideals, as you can see. This Alliance, called the Holy Alliance, with it’s main objective being to ensure the French Royal House and Monarchy as political rullers of France, and to contain France, just in case the french expansionism returned sometime later, managed to keep conservativism, industrial and economic development and, above all, peace in Europe, since 1815 until the Crimean War, on the mid-19th Century.

Secularism started with the French Revolution, but was far from being completely ended, even with the Holy Alliance’s eyes upon every revolutionary ideal arround France or Europe. Marxism came in the mid-19th Century, and the Russian Revolution of 1917 was its culmination. Even before 1917, by the very end of the 19th Century, there were already some communist coups and temporary governments being installed, a little bit all over Europe - for instance, the Paris Commune of 1871, a sad example of it. Republicanism, associated with Socialist ideals, tended to flare all over the Iberian Peninsula, for example, and over other mediterranean countries, like Italy, for instance. In fact, these political movements were supported by Free Masonry and by other anti-catholic secret societies like the Carbonary (originated in Italy) and so on.

In Portugal, Republicanism won over the Monarchy in 1910, initiating a period of religious persecutions to Catholics. Thousands of Catholic clergymen were arrested, mocked, persecuted, humiliated and then, killed. Lay people were persecuted, too. Countless Church’s properties were confiscated by the State, who was the very leader of all these anti-clerical persecutions. It seemed like that the Catholic Church had been banned from Portugal. The same thing happened in Spain, 20 years later, ending up in a terrible civil war, which, thank God, ended up with the victors being the protectors of the Catholic Church.

But in fact, the last stab on the back of Europe, in what concerns to the dawn of secularism, was done after the end of WW2. The 50’s, starting with Elvis Presley, and then the 60’s, with the hippies, the so-called sexual revolution and the “drugs, sex and rock n’ roll” culture, were inevitably felt over Europe, too, specially on the democratic countries, like France, Britain, and so on. This couldn’t be avoided, since the western world was, from the end of WW2 until now, guided and leaded by the American model and influence. This was mostly felt on culture, rather than on politics or on economy (and it was preferable the other way round, in my personal opinion), as we europeans, in fact, keep our very “socialist” Social State as a social-economic model, which is, trully, one of the things which makes us unique in the World, today, for example.
i am also afraid, that the more technologically advanced we get and medically advanced and scientifically advanced, that people will become more secular. they don’t realize, that even though the world changes, we still remain human beings, with souls, and we still have the choices of good and evil, to sin or not to sin and that we still need God in our lives and in the world.
You would have reasons to be afraid, had we not the Church. But we have the Church, and Christ, really and substantially present, is among us. So, nothing to fear. We just have to reorganize the resistance! :cool:
 
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