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AgnosTheist
Guest
I was brought up as a catholic.
Some catholics value the bible more than your likings. Live with it.
ps. where i came from (which is 85% catholic) the bible is much more common than the book of cathechism.
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Some catholics value the bible more than your likings. Live with it.
ps. where i came from (which is 85% catholic) the bible is much more common than the book of cathechism.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
Is this your general view?
.
He was angry not depressed. He wasn’t mental either.
It’s Justice. God judges a man’s heart.
He (Samson) did not commit suicide.
God through the fullness of time, establish a Church. He gave us his divine revelation in Christ. Samson actions weren’t justified, but he was a hero for his people.
Christianity was made so the light of God can be revealed. God’s law is above the law of men. We are to obey God rather than men. Don’t be surprise when governments in the world would pervert the world by allowing adults to have sex with children ages under the age of 17 yrs.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
I encourage you to read both the Catholic Bible and the Catechism. You were brought up Catholic but it is apparent, you weren’t properly catechized.
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AgnosTheist
Guest
I know. In short, if you can do something about your suffering, do it. Thats the reality of things. Catholics, both clergy & laity, do their best to cure diseases and solve social persecutions. They dont just sit down and suffer. Manny speaks as if your not supposed to do anything about your situation and just suffer for Jesus.
because he had a couple more things to say?
Samson got his super powers back right after he told god of his intentions to kill himself. If thats not approval, i dont know what is.
its a case to case basis. his suicide was clearly taken as completely positive.
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Godi
Guest
This discussion sounds and is the same as Germany pre WWII. Now it is in a different time, different land but the same old arguments by the same “enlightened” people. This thread should be shut down. 
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AgnosTheist
Guest
More than 10 years of Catholic school aint enough???!
I still have a copy of both the catholic bible & the catechism. ive read the former, but its a bore to read the latter.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
It’s a bore because you don’t read it as it was intended. The Catechism is intended as a teaching material meant to inform Catholics to know their faith.More than 10 years of Catholic school aint enough???!
I still have a copy of both the catholic bible & the catechism. ive read the former, but its a bore to read the latter.
I’ve been a Catholic for 32 yrs.
But to the issue of Euthanasia, it is never justified period. God forbid it.
Pope Pius XII, who witnessed and condemned the eugenics and euthanasia programs of the Nazis, was the first to explicate clearly this moral problem and provide guidance. In 1980, the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith released its Declaration on Euthanasia which further clarified this guidance especially in light of the increasing complexity of life-support systems and the promotion of euthanasia as a valid means of ending life. The new Catechism (No. 2276-2279) provides a succinct explanation of our Catholic teaching on this subject.
Before addressing the issue of euthanasia, we must first remember that the Catholic Church holds as sacred both the dignity of each individual person and the gift of life. Therefore, the following principles are morally binding: First, to make an attempt on the life of or to kill an innocent person is an evil action. Second, each person is bound to lead his life in accord with God’s plan and with an openness to His will, looking to life’s fulfillment in heaven. Finally, intentionally committing suicide is a murder of oneself and considered a rejection of God’s plan. For these reasons, the Second Vatican Council condemned "all offenses against life itself, such as murder, genocide, abortion, euthanasia and willful suicide…(Gaudium et Spes, No. 27).
Given this notion of health care, we can turn to the subject at hand. Euthanasia, literally translated as “good death” or “easy death,” is “an action or omission which of itself or by intention causes death, in order that all suffering may in this way be eliminated” (Declaration on Euthanasia). In other words, euthanasia involves the purposeful termination of life by direct action, such as lethal injection, or by an omission, such as starvation or dehydration. Note that euthanasia is commonly known as “mercy killing”; this term is most appropriate because the act involves an intentional killing, no matter how good the intention may be to alleviate suffering.
However, euthanasia must be distinguished from the stopping of extraordinary means of health care. The patient – or guardian in the case of an unconscious patient – has the right to reject outright or to discontinue those procedures which are extraordinary, do not offer a proportionate good, do not offer reasonable hope of benefit or are simply “heroic.” Such a decision is most appropriate when death is clearly imminent. In these cases, the person would place himself in God’s hands and prepare to leave this life, while maintaining ordinary means of health care.
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kentuckyliz
Guest
Jesus is the Healer but he delegates most of the work to doctors and other health care workers. 
Denying Catholics health care would take the virtue away from bearing one’s burden. Externally imposed virtue bears no merit.
Even when a person is treated for an injury or illness and being cured, there is still a cross to bear in the situation–fear, anxiety, grief, depression, pain, fatigue, scars, physical limitations, etc. Redemptive suffering still works even when being healed.
Y’all are discussing this as theoretical ideas but I’m on my third cancer and have had four surgeries in the last 12 months, so I have a personal stake in these ideas.
My siblings have taken on a utilitarian morality and I fear that if I give them health care power of attorney, they would be too eager to off me, because they are also going to inherit my wealth and that will make their lives easier. I really don’t know what to do. Perhaps I should disinherit them, take out the financial motivation, and do one of those will to live documents instead, binding the health care system to care for me and preserve my life. The latter will be particularly important if we get government health care, when cost-managing bureaucrats with utilitarian morality and who perhaps share those anti-Catholic prejudices set themselves up as judge jury and executioner on someone else’s “quality of life.”
Today’s world is truly scary, and I will be quaking in my shoes about what they’ll do to me if I ever get metastasis.
Denying Catholics health care would take the virtue away from bearing one’s burden. Externally imposed virtue bears no merit.
Even when a person is treated for an injury or illness and being cured, there is still a cross to bear in the situation–fear, anxiety, grief, depression, pain, fatigue, scars, physical limitations, etc. Redemptive suffering still works even when being healed.
Y’all are discussing this as theoretical ideas but I’m on my third cancer and have had four surgeries in the last 12 months, so I have a personal stake in these ideas.
My siblings have taken on a utilitarian morality and I fear that if I give them health care power of attorney, they would be too eager to off me, because they are also going to inherit my wealth and that will make their lives easier. I really don’t know what to do. Perhaps I should disinherit them, take out the financial motivation, and do one of those will to live documents instead, binding the health care system to care for me and preserve my life. The latter will be particularly important if we get government health care, when cost-managing bureaucrats with utilitarian morality and who perhaps share those anti-Catholic prejudices set themselves up as judge jury and executioner on someone else’s “quality of life.”
Today’s world is truly scary, and I will be quaking in my shoes about what they’ll do to me if I ever get metastasis.
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thistle
Guest
Euthanasia is simply MURDER. It is against God’s law and certainly should be made a criminal offence as well.
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AgnosTheist
Guest
Theologically, Euthanasia is wrong. Otherwise its not.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
Your view doesn’t make sense. This is what I see.
“Theologically, murder is wrong. Otherwise its not.”
Murderer is never justified my friend. Euthanasia is murder.
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AgnosTheist
Guest
Secularly speaking, its only murder if its against the law. Thank God thats changing. I would like to seek aid too in ending my suffering in the case I become hopelessly ill and being tortured by pain.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
Your logic doesn’t make sense. I don’t think God would be thankful for allow it to change. Rather man is changing and going above the moral law. Man is not made to change the moral law. God is the author of moral law.Secularly speaking, its only murder if its against the law. Thank God thats changing. I would like to seek aid too in ending my suffering in the case I become hopelessly ill and being tortured by pain.
His moral law existed during the time of the Jews, and continues through his Church.
I recall the story that Fr. Corapi once said. During his time in the seminary, he and another seminarian was in the third year. I believe it was, though I’m not sure. Anyways, this seminary was missing many courses at the seminary.
It turns out he was diagnose with cancer. Fr. Corapi, and the seminarian family came to visit him often. The sick seminarian condition worsen, he lost a lot of weight. Fr. Corapi saw the cancer patient holding her son on her arms.
Before this seminarian died, he received his Annointing of the Sick, and received the Last Rites as well. He was given the Eucharist, food for the journey. He told Corapi, “You can’t believe the joy. I’m coming home to my master’s house.”
This cancer patient took up his own suffering, and like a brave soul accepted his faith in God. Rather than have someone cut off his life line, he allow God to take his life.
Death is not something to be fear. Likewise, it is not the means to take one’s own life. Euthanasia is not an exception to this. Euthanasia is a grave evil which was bestowed by Satan, and deceived mankind.
I think you have fallen into this deception to that euthanasia is acceptible. Anyone who assist in this will find themselves accountible to Jesus Christ himself.
On that day, when a doctor will come before the judgement seat of the Son of God, Jesus Christ, the Just Judge will say to him.
"**Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. ** Then they also shall answer him, saying: **“Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee?”**Then he shall answer them, saying: “Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.” And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.
Woe to that man who administer death to a man who is suffering. I pray that who ever commits such act will repent of his errors, and ask God’s mercy. If he doesn’t, he or anyone who favor this view will be cast into everlasting punishment.
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DanteAlighieri
Guest
What a completely absurd statement! Jesus healed the sick; therefore sickness is not a cross we must bear?
By this logic, we are not meant to struggle against the devil, either, since Jesus cast out demons.
AT, please provide a logical basis for this statement – which seems to be the crux of a very flimsy argument in favor of euthanasia.
Peace,
Dante
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AgnosTheist
Guest
a little correction here. by that logic christians drive out demons. for no person had to endure being possessed by devils. right? right!
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Mannyfit75
Guest
My friend, it’s been know that demonic possession does happen. There are documented cases for it, and bishops often called priest to perform exorcism. A successful exorcism can be done by praying, fasting, and he must be free of any mortal sin. But this itself is another subject.
The logic that murder is acceptible by society is wrong. Euthanasia is murder my friend.
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Newbie2
Guest
Legally, at least in the US, it’s wrong too (excepting some states that are/were in the process of legalizing “physician assisted suicide”.
Clearly, the law reflects the morality of society, at least to some extent, no?
Your conclusion is in error.
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fix
Guest
Relativism?
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Newbie2
Guest
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