Euthanasia Question

[magdelaine]

Hi, I just finished re-reading A Canticle for Leibowitz, in which there is a scene at the end of the book where the Abbot confronts the government “radiation” workers who are cleaning up after a nuclear blast about offering to euthanize folks who have been “red-tagged”, or slated for dying.

Now, according to my hubby who works in radiation safety, it can take several weeks to die of exposure to radiation, and that the process is bloody and painful. He also says it can be difficult to tell whether someone has been given a lethal dose. However, lets say that you unequivocally could tell that someone **was **going to die from radiation exposure. Of course, my first thought is that the Church would never condone “mercy killing”, and rightly so, but might this be a special case? I sense this was a bone of contention for the author personally.

 

[Et_Cetera]

This is just my opinion, but I think that sometimes it is fine to spare people from suffering.

 

[Tietjen]

Unless I am mistaken, which may be the case (but I don’t think so) Euthanasia is never an option. The alternative sounds barbaric (to allow the suffering) but all we can do is comfort the dying as best we can, try to help with the pain medically, and pray. There are many people that suffer both living day to day and while dying. Christ certainly suffered as did countless saints and martyrs.

 

[JimG]

Hospice is the best example of how to handle situations where a patient is certain to die. Hospice workers do not kill patients. But they do give them sufficient drugs to alleviate their pain, even though the increased dosage may have the side effect of shortening their life.

It is not required to prolong dying as long as possible. But it is not permitted to directly intend to kill. Alleviating suffering is certainly permitted. Killing is not.

 

[Ron_Conte]

Hospice is the best example of how to handle situations where a patient is certain to die. Hospice workers do not kill patients. But they do give them sufficient drugs to alleviate their pain, even though the increased dosage may have the side effect of shortening their life.

It is not required to prolong dying as long as possible. But it is not permitted to directly intend to kill. Alleviating suffering is certainly permitted. Killing is not.

The above quote is correct on this issue.

I add that euthanasia is intrinsically evil and always gravely immoral.

Pope John Paul II wrote:

Taking into account these distinctions, in harmony with the Magisterium of my Predecessors and in communion with the Bishops of the Catholic Church, I confirm that euthanasia is a grave violation of the law of God, since it is the deliberate and morally unacceptable killing of a human person. This doctrine is based upon the natural law and upon the written word of God, is transmitted by the Church’s Tradition and taught by the ordinary and universal Magisterium.

 

[magdelaine]

I guess that is my question, though. If a person is literally the walking dead, and if there isn’t the ability to offer relief from suffering the way that it would be in the event that something like a nuclear event happens…

Or I guess the same question could be applied on the battlefield. Buddy is shot, there’s no help available, he’s begging for “mercy”. This is still wrong, correct?

Or what if a person is brain damaged and cannot eat or fend for himself and herself. You can’t take him or her with you, so it’s either let that person die slowly of starvation and dehydration, or a pillow over the face for a quick “end”.

These are extreme situations, for sure, but that is what I’m wondering about.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

I think medicine has all the necessary means to alleviate pain, it’s just not always handled correctly by healthcare providers.
This is then used as an excuse for euthanasia.

 

[magdelaine]

I think medicine has all the necessary means to alleviate pain, it’s just not always handled correctly by healthcare providers.
This is then used as an excuse for euthanasia.

According to my hubby, morphine quits working well before the end when you are sick from radiation exposure.

 

[elts1956]

I guess that is my question, though. If a person is literally the walking dead, and if there isn’t the ability to offer relief from suffering the way that it would be in the event that something like a nuclear event happens…

Or I guess the same question could be applied on the battlefield. Buddy is shot, there’s no help available, he’s begging for “mercy”. This is still wrong, correct?

Or what if a person is brain damaged and cannot eat or fend for himself and herself. You can’t take him or her with you, so it’s either let that person die slowly of starvation and dehydration, or a pillow over the face for a quick “end”.

These are extreme situations, for sure, but that is what I’m wondering about.

Stop wondering.“Thou shalt not kill.” And I didn’t make that up.

See JimG’s post #4.

 

[JuneBug72]

I think medicine has all the necessary means to alleviate pain, it’s just not always handled correctly by healthcare providers.
This is then used as an excuse for euthanasia.

Not in all cases. A person with long cancer given large dosages of morphine will still feel like he/she is suffocating.
Narcotics in my opinion should be given until the patient is made comfortable. In some cases this my cause respiratory suppression and death but the intent of the caregiver is still to provide pain relief not death.

 

[mapleoak]

Or what if a person is brain damaged and cannot eat or fend for himself and herself. You can’t take him or her with you, so it’s either let that person die slowly of starvation and dehydration, or a pillow over the face for a quick “end”.

This is an excellent parallel to abortion. Kill him because it would inconvenience you too much to take care of him. He cannot eat or fend for himself, but gosh darn if I’m going to feed him.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

Not in all cases. A person with long cancer given large dosages of morphine will still feel like he/she is suffocating.
Narcotics in my opinion should be given until the patient is made comfortable. In some cases this my cause respiratory suppression and death but the intent of the caregiver is still to provide pain relief not death.

I’m no expert on pain meds but have had experience with those dieing of other forms of cancer.The pain was managed well by the doctors.
Feeling suffocated is a frightening thought, but can occur with other conditions besides lung cancer.
There is no easy way around dieing & suffering sometimes.Doctors do the best they can generally.Life is not perfect & death neither.We are just not allowed to deliberately end a life.

 

[Godfollower]

A related question to which I do not know the answer: What is the Church’s teaching on the classic battlefield coup de grace (killing the wounded soldier who otherwise will slowly die over many hours or days)? Is that also forbidden?

Obviously it’s an active killing (either murder or, under some circumstances, actively assisted suicide); but for some reason it sticks in my mind that the coup de grace was somehow permissible. The Declaration on Euthanasia by the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, however, appears to leave no room for such actions.

And yet I have this memory that it’s somehow permissible. Am I just making this up?

 

[06convert]

According to my understanding. Suffering brings purity. If you can offer your pains and suffering up to God and ask him to use this to help purify you. You can reduce purgatory time, or avoid it all together.

Suffering should be an opportunity, not a burden. Think about the pain and suffering Jesus did for you. Here is your opportunity to pay him back.

 

[Squishy]

This is a debate i have frequently with my fiancé and we have yet to come to an agreement.

If we take assisted suicide for the moment though. If someone is in such extreme amounts of pain that they want to end their life. This option should be available to them. You have no right to tell them they must suffer because Christ did. It should really be about personal choice. Most christans would never choose this option as i believe suicide is a sin (correct me if im wrong). So the argument for religion doesnt really apply, as the people choosing to die are doing so in accord with their own beliefs.

I think that if the person is able to make the choice to end their life, a panal of doctors agree their is nothing they can do to allieviate long term suffering. This doesnt mean being stuffed full of pain meds and lying in a hospital bed by the way. Thats another form of sufering. At leaste it would be for me knowing that i was putting my loved ones through that. They should be allowed to end their own life, in a safe and controled manner.

 

[happymommy]

This is a debate i have frequently with my fiancé and we have yet to come to an agreement.

If we take assisted suicide for the moment though. If someone is in such extreme amounts of pain that they want to end their life. This option should be available to them. You have no right to tell them they must suffer because Christ did. It should really be about personal choice. Most christans would never choose this option as i believe suicide is a sin (correct me if im wrong). So the argument for religion doesnt really apply, as the people choosing to die are doing so in accord with their own beliefs.

I think that if the person is able to make the choice to end their life, a panal of doctors agree their is nothing they can do to allieviate long term suffering. This doesnt mean being stuffed full of pain meds and lying in a hospital bed by the way. Thats another form of sufering. At leaste it would be for me knowing that i was putting my loved ones through that. They should be allowed to end their own life, in a safe and controled manner.

I watched my mother die a slow and painful death and I would have taken that pain from her in a heart beat, but I would rather she suffer here in this life, then spend an eternity suffering in hell. We made her as comfortable as possible. Thank you for judging that by saying we put her through that! It was not our choice that she go through this, but we were not about to sin in order to “speed up” the process. She handled death with the same grace she handled her life. When asked, do you ever wonder why me? She answered, why not me?! I hope to live my life by this example! Why was it okay for Christ to suffer, but we feel we shouldn’t have to, that we are exempt from it. He was perfect, sinless and yet suffered so much. I am flawed and a sinner and yet think I should never have pain and if I do, I can just end my life to get away from it. The pain of hell is going to be far worse then any pain we face here. Euthanasia is never an option. That is playing God. Choosing when someones life should end. That is not up to us to decide.

 

[Squishy]

I watched my mother die a slow and painful death and I would have taken that pain from her in a heart beat, but I would rather she suffer here in this life, then spend an eternity suffering in hell. We made her as comfortable as possible. Thank you for judging that by saying we put her through that! It was not our choice that she go through this, but we were not about to sin in order to “speed up” the process. She handled death with the same grace she handled her life. When asked, do you ever wonder why me? She answered, why not me?! I hope to live my life by this example! Why was it okay for Christ to suffer, but we feel we shouldn’t have to, that we are exempt from it. He was perfect, sinless and yet suffered so much. I am flawed and a sinner and yet think I should never have pain and if I do, I can just end my life to get away from it. The pain of hell is going to be far worse then any pain we face here. Euthanasia is never an option. That is playing God. Choosing when someones life should end. That is not up to us to decide.

Im sorry to hear about your mother, and believe me i know the same pain you do. However to force your religious beliefs on others on this matter is hardly fair, as you might end up being wrong, forcing that person to suffer for nothing. It should be about choice. We should all have the choice if we ascribe to a certain religious belief and having other people forced on us isnt fair. If people who are termainly and want to die they should be allowed to.

I will probebly generate a lot of hate by saying this but i have to anyway. Their are worse ways to die than crusafixtion. Who are you to say christ suffered more or less than someone else?

 

[Cracker_Mom]

I watched my mother die a slow and painful death and I would have taken that pain from her in a heart beat, but I would rather she suffer here in this life, then spend an eternity suffering in hell. We made her as comfortable as possible. Thank you for judging that by saying we put her through that! It was not our choice that she go through this, but we were not about to sin in order to “speed up” the process. She handled death with the same grace she handled her life. When asked, do you ever wonder why me? She answered, why not me?! I hope to live my life by this example! Why was it okay for Christ to suffer, but we feel we shouldn’t have to, that we are exempt from it. He was perfect, sinless and yet suffered so much. I am flawed and a sinner and yet think I should never have pain and if I do, I can just end my life to get away from it. The pain of hell is going to be far worse then any pain we face here. Euthanasia is never an option. That is playing God. Choosing when someones life should end. That is not up to us to decide.

You know, reading some of the posts here & comments demonstrates the need to educate others on Church teaching.Folks do appear to make rash judgments in their statements, but we can consider the source.
We’re still fighting an uphill battle from the weak religious instruction of the '60’s & '70’s. And I guess that still applies to some parishes nowadays.Plus the popular media’s influence.
We’ve lost family members to cancer & suffering is difficult & painful to watch. We need to do all we can reasonably do to alleviate it.However we believe as Catholics that suffering has a redemptive value.And that is very different from what the world teaches.It’s no wonder folks who are not orthodox Catholics would have difficulty with this.
That said, I’m all for pain relieving meds.The more the better.

 

[happymommy]

Im sorry to hear about your mother, and believe me i know the same pain you do. However to force your religious beliefs on others on this matter is hardly fair, as you might end up being wrong, forcing that person to suffer for nothing. It should be about choice. We should all have the choice if we ascribe to a certain religious belief and having other people forced on us isnt fair. If people who are termainly and want to die they should be allowed to.

I will probebly generate a lot of hate by saying this but i have to anyway. Their are worse ways to die than crusafixtion. Who are you to say christ suffered more or less than someone else?

Who are you to say that He didn’t! You have proof or an example of the worst way to die? Because sadly our family has been hit with some awful deaths in the last few years and none of them looked like fun! I didn’t say He suffered more, I said He had done nothing wrong to have to suffer. Had Adam and Eve not sinned, we would not have to suffer either. Our suffering is because of our sin. There is no way to get around it and no way to over look it. And to end your life to get away from is only going to get you more pain.

I’m not pro-choice about any kind of assisted death, be it because of an illness or an abortion. So it’s not a matter of choice to me.
And what if I’m right? Are you willing to face eternity in hell on a what if and this isn’t fair? Life’s not fair. Things don’t always go the way we want.
If someone wants to end their life, there is very little that I can do to stop that, but it should not be allowed to happen in a hospital or with the help of anyone else. If they wish to sin, they should not expect others to help them in it. All I can do is pray for their souls and pray that God has mercy on them.

 

[Squishy]

Who are you to say that He didn’t! You have proof or an example of the worst way to die? Because sadly our family has been hit with some awful deaths in the last few years and none of them looked like fun! I didn’t say He suffered more, I said He had done nothing wrong to have to suffer. Had Adam and Eve not sinned, we would not have to suffer either. Our suffering is because of our sin. There is no way to get around it and no way to over look it. And to end your life to get away from is only going to get you more pain.

I’m not pro-choice about any kind of assisted death, be it because of an illness or an abortion. So it’s not a matter of choice to me.
And what if I’m right? Are you willing to face eternity in hell on a what if and this isn’t fair? Life’s not fair. Things don’t always go the way we want.
If someone wants to end their life, there is very little that I can do to stop that, but it should not be allowed to happen in a hospital or with the help of anyone else. If they wish to sin, they should not expect others to help them in it. All I can do is pray for their souls and pray that God has mercy on them.

Im pretty sure the origin posters example of Radaiation sickness would be worse than crusafixtion. Im not saying that anyone sufferes more or less, i have no idea how much Christ suffered or how little.

And yes i am willing to bet my eternal soul on their being no god. Where would you rather people ended their life if not in a hospital ? Because you cannot stop it from happening if thats what the person decides. In this country i pay my taxes which pay for the hospital i have as much of a right to end my life their in a comfortable enviroment rather than in a dingy basement with a rope.

You do not support assisted suicide and euthanasia because of your religious beliefs, which is fine, I really have no issue with this. But to force other people to adhere by them is terrible. I woudn’t try to euthanise anyone because i felt that i would be saving them suffering when they clearly didnt want it. So why do you feel the need you must do the reverse of this.