Euthanasia - Your Personal Views

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I read an article in the paper this morning about a man who had been fighting a lawsuit for his right to be assisted to die by a physician when he felt he couldn’t live anymore. The man has advanced locked-in syndrome due to a very damaging stroke. His entire body is paralysed, he can’t speak and can only move his head and eyes slightly - that’s how he communicates (similar to Stephen Hawking).
The United Kingdom supreme court eventually rejected the appeal, leaving the man to live out his “undignified, distressing and intolerable” existence.
The court argued that euthanasia would create a defence for murder.

What are you personal opinions on this? Now I obviously now the traditional Catholic stance on this topic, but I would enjoy hearing your own reasons and justifications (not just - the Bible says so).
What do you think the outcome would have been if the argument of defence for murder hadn’t been brought up? Could the United Kingdom have become a euthanasia state?

blogs.independent.co.uk/2012/08/17/some-with-locked-in-syndrome-do-not-want-to-die-but-tony-nicklinson-does/
 
I’m not expert by any means. Some random thoughts of mine.
  • Assisted Suicide opens up a slippery slope and in a liberal democratic society, assisted suicide is likely to be widened to incorporate a wide array of justifications.
  • One doctor wanted to put down a brain dead kid at 21, but 3 months later (after parents refused) the kid awakened from his brain dead state. If they listened to a doctor who knows nothing about morality, the kid would of been murdered.
  • God hands out our Crosses to carry, sometimes they feel unbearably heavy, and that is when we need to lean on him. Not “pull the plug”.
  • Your case sounds terrible for the person, but we shouldn’t base morality on a rare case.
  • Ultimately, we should leave it to the teaching authority of the church and we all should be conforming our conscious to the magisterium teaching. So my opinion, if it deviates, means little.
I enjoyed this though, got my brain churning a little. What are your thoughts?
 
I personally support it. people have the right to end their own lives. especially if we have the death penalty. if all of you people want to get rid of assisted suicide then get rid of the death penalty too, or if you want to keep the death penalty then allow assisted suicide. any other combination would just be sheer hypocrisy.
i myself support both the death penalty and assisted suicide. i am well aware that these views conflict with the church’s stance, but thats just my personal views.
 
I think its a shameful and disgusting practice. Life is precious in all forms - life is still worth living in all forms. But of course that only depends on whether or not you’re looking at the big picture. Of course you’ll be capable of hating life if you don’t know you could have a good one afterwards.
 
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What do you think the outcome would have been if the argument of defence for murder hadn’t been brought up? Could the United Kingdom have become a euthanasia state?

blogs.independent.co.uk/2012/08/17/some-with-locked-in-syndrome-do-not-want-to-die-but-tony-nicklinson-does/
I’ve come across this scenario in real life. I mentioned it in another thread some time ago.
I’ve come across a real life scenario.

There’s a person, Catholic, that is of deteriorating health. He’s contemplating his own death, gathering family to take care of his will, and doing other things to prepare for death.

Because of the direction in which he health is going he is concerned with finding himself trapped in his own body experiencing nothing but pain. Pain management with this person has failed due to reactions to pain medication. In preparing for this scenario he’s made a coded message asking that one of his friends be ready to help him die if his life reaches the point of being only pain.
My thoughts; I can think of no reason to prevent this person from ending his life. From the other thread it sounded like other Catholics find some value in pain. But this person clearly doesn’t. And in trying to take the platinum rule into consideration I can think of no reason that this person should not be allowed to have his life ended with assistance when he can no longer tolerate his continual torture. There were also some that tried to compare it to a temporary condition, such as a person that depressed because of a divorce. I think that is also a poor equivalent to this scenario as this person is and has been in a continual downward direction that will result in death if nothing else kills him first. My thoughts on his situation are the same as my thoughts on the scenario you’ve presented.
 
I personally support it. people have the right to end their own lives. especially if we have the death penalty. if all of you people want to get rid of assisted suicide then get rid of the death penalty too, or if you want to keep the death penalty then allow assisted suicide. any other combination would just be sheer hypocrisy.
i myself support both the death penalty and assisted suicide. i am well aware that these views conflict with the church’s stance, but thats just my personal views.
But you only believe it’s moral to choose to die in these horrific circumstances? Or at any time?
I think its a shameful and disgusting practice. Life is precious in all forms - life is still worth living in all forms. But of course that only depends on whether or not you’re looking at the big picture. Of course you’ll be capable of hating life if you don’t know you could have a good one afterwards.
So a man like Tony Nicklinson should love his life?

You say life is still worth living in all forms - does that just apply to humans in your view or all life? If that’s the case then what about putting down animals?
 
Apart from the fact that Euthanasia is nothing more than murder and a grievious sin, we should never forget what happened with it under the Nazi’s and in the Soviet Union.
Euthanasia was adopted in Germany in 1933. It’s original purpose was to deal with the terminally ill. By 1934, its use was expanded to include deformed and mentally challanged children - such as Cretins and Mongoloids- by 1935 dwarfs were being euthanized. This led to acceptance by much of German society that euthanasia was necessary to “purify society”. By 1940-41 the Holocost was in full swing.
Similar events occured in the Soviet Union under Stalin. Instead of Concentration camps they had Gulags. The reason we in the west do not know much about them, most gulags were located in the wilds of Siberia, well away from Western eyes, and the few people who survived them do not talk about their experiences to this day. We know of them only because of a couple of very famous (in and out of Russia) intellectuals wrote about them. They were internationally so famous, the Soviet Politburo did not dare do anything more to them. From the 1930’s to the end of the Soviet Union, more people died in Russia than in all of Europe during WW II! Mostly at the hands of Stalin.
Don’t ever say it couldn’t happen here. That is what German liberals said in 1932 when Hitler became Chancellor of Germany…and what many party members said about Stalin’s chances of succeeding Lenin when he died.
 
So a man like Tony Nicklinson should love his life?
It’s up to him whether or not he wants to live - that choice belongs to all men. But yes, he should love his life, just as I love mine or you love yours. Life is a gift that can’t be granted back once its gone - I think that much can be agreed on.
You say life is still worth living in all forms - does that just apply to humans in your view or all life? If that’s the case then what about putting down animals?
All life is precious in all forms, but animals do not possess eternal souls. Their journey ends here as far as we need be concerned. That being said, it is more humane to kill an animal in agony because it has nothing more to gain with its time on earth. Humans, regardless of their creed, are much more sacred than animals. As humans it should be part of our duty to respect the life of fellow humans by helping them to continue on in the most appropriate fashion. Killing someone to stop their pain doesn’t fall within those lines.
 
I’m not sure what is so “undignified” about his existence.

He could build a life of great dignity with the abilities he does have.

I had a friend and colleague who was paraplegic - paralyzed from the neck down. He could speak and eat. Every other bodily function had to be taken care of. He was a wonderfully dignified person.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/2678_70852431095_5788587_n.jpg

And though completely paralyzed he went scuba diving!
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/331_36386706095_6031_n.jpg
 
Euthanasia is grave matter and mortal sin if you know the truth and disobey anyway. The practice is a temptation sort of like taking fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We know we are not supposed to do it, and yet we defiantly choose to do it anyway.
 
I’m not sure what is so “undignified” about his existence.

He could build a life of great dignity with the abilities he does have.

I had a friend and colleague who was paraplegic - paralyzed from the neck down. He could speak and eat. Every other bodily function had to be taken care of. He was a wonderfully dignified person.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/2678_70852431095_5788587_n.jpg

And though completely paralyzed he went scuba diving!
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/331_36386706095_6031_n.jpg
I am truly happy to hear that, you must be grateful to have such a friend!

But, did you read the article? Tony can’t even speak or eat, in fact the illness can take a turn for the worse following the first few months where the person cannot even move their eyes.
Euthanasia is grave matter and mortal sin if you know the truth and disobey anyway. The practice is a temptation sort of like taking fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We know we are not supposed to do it, and yet we defiantly choose to do it anyway.
This is a moral philosophy thread and not a moral theology thread, so if you could please back up your arguments philosophically with reasons and evidence, rather than the religious context.

I’m not trying to attack anybody’s views, I mostly agree with the posters on the thread, however I’m trying to question, discuss and allow us to unpack the topic philsophically.
 
I am truly happy to hear that, you must be grateful to have such a friend!
Sadly he died of kidney failure a couple of years ago. But while I knew him he blew away my pre-conceived notions of what a good life should look like.
 
I am truly happy to hear that, you must be grateful to have such a friend!

But, did you read the article? Tony can’t even speak or eat, in fact the illness can take a turn for the worse following the first few months where the person cannot even move their eyes.

This is a moral philosophy thread and not a moral theology thread, so if you could please back up your arguments philosophically with reasons and evidence, rather than the religious context.

I’m not trying to attack anybody’s views, I mostly agree with the posters on the thread, however I’m trying to question, discuss and allow us to unpack the topic philsophically.
That is a tough scenerio. I am against euthanasia, but I also do not think doctors should keep people artificially alive. To me that is almost as sinful.
 
Why should society allow euthanasia but do its best to prevent suicide in other scenarios? Why should the government allow for death as a merciful relief in these situations but still convict “mercy killers?”

But on the contrary, why should the government allow for abortion and forbid euthanasia when fetuses have more greater potential benefits to society than invalids?
 
I read an article in the paper this morning about a man who had been fighting a lawsuit for his right to be assisted to die by a physician when he felt he couldn’t live anymore. The man has advanced locked-in syndrome due to a very damaging stroke. His entire body is paralysed, he can’t speak and can only move his head and eyes slightly - that’s how he communicates (similar to Stephen Hawking).
The United Kingdom supreme court eventually rejected the appeal, leaving the man to live out his “undignified, distressing and intolerable” existence.
The court argued that euthanasia would create a defence for murder.

What are you personal opinions on this? Now I obviously now the traditional Catholic stance on this topic, but I would enjoy hearing your own reasons and justifications (not just - the Bible says so).
What do you think the outcome would have been if the argument of defence for murder hadn’t been brought up? Could the United Kingdom have become a euthanasia state?

blogs.independent.co.uk/2012/08/17/some-with-locked-in-syndrome-do-not-want-to-die-but-tony-nicklinson-does/
Well, if you don’t accept the moral teaching of the Church or Revealation which is based on natural law then there would no moral appeal that could be raised, period. As a matter of fact if one rejects the natural law and the teachings of Revealation and the Church on morality then there would logically be no moral restrictions on anything you had a mind to do. Shades of Peter Singer.

🤷
 
It’s up to him whether or not he wants to live - that choice belongs to all men. But yes, he should love his life, just as I love mine or you love yours. Life is a gift that can’t be granted back once its gone - I think that much can be agreed on.
The entire point of euthanasia is to end a life that has become intolerable, usually through some irreversible condition that will only involve deterioration, loss of dignity and increased suffering.

It is certainly my hope that should I ever be in such a situation, the law will allow me the self-determination to end my life as and when I deem it appropriate, to the best of my powers.

I also don’t believe it is valid to compare such self-directed action with state-sanctioned killing of the kind enacted by any totalitarian regime like that of the Nazis or the Soviets - that was based on government ideology, not on individual preference. Proper euthanasia laws would allow for differences of religion or creed or personal desire, and would not demand that any individual relinquish their life against their will.
All life is precious in all forms, but animals do not possess eternal souls. Their journey ends here as far as we need be concerned. That being said, it is more humane to kill an animal in agony because it has nothing more to gain with its time on earth. Humans, regardless of their creed, are much more sacred than animals. As humans it should be part of our duty to respect the life of fellow humans by helping them to continue on in the most appropriate fashion. Killing someone to stop their pain doesn’t fall within those lines.
All life is equal, but some life is more equal than others…

What of those humans who sincerely believe (as I do) that we have no more to gain by continuing in an existence of agony and indignity? Doesn’t forcing such persons to continue to live violate certain freedoms, as freedom of religion (more so in the US than in Australia, but even so…)? I certainly do not believe that other animals are less sacred, however that is meant, than humans. If respecting the life of a dog, for example, means ending that life when it has become one of unbearable suffering, why do we not extend the same compassion to humans? What is “the most appropriate fashion” in which to continue in pain, despair and indignity? Religious belief would seem to be a requirement to consider that there could be anything to be gained by such persistence in torment.
 
Well, if you don’t accept the moral teaching of the Church or Revealation which is based on natural law then there would no moral appeal that could be raised, period. As a matter of fact if one rejects the natural law and the teachings of Revealation and the Church on morality then there would logically be no moral restrictions on anything you had a mind to do. Shades of Peter Singer.

🤷
Incorrect, ever heard of Kantian ethics? Virtue ethics? WD Ross ethics? Heck, and type of deontological ethical theory?

A very shallow proposition to say that only followers of natural moral law can be ethically against issues such as euthanasia.
 
The entire point of euthanasia is to end a life that has become intolerable, usually through some irreversible condition that will only involve deterioration, loss of dignity and increased suffering.
A life “that is intolerable” is still life. Anyone who can look beyond the scope of the physical world realizes that pain and suffering are temporary troubles, depending on whether or not you plan on going to heaven or hell. Since God commands us to respect life, we must do so to obtain heaven and to follow His will. The reason we can put an animal out of its misery (or kill it for food) but not a human is because humans have more than physical life to look forward to, and that life we look forward to (spiritual) is more important than our physical life. However, our physical life is ultimately what determines what our spiritual life will be like. That being said, we must use it to its fullest extent in order to extract from it the most benefit. Such suffering can be used as a means of obtaining grace for self and for others,* or* it can be rejected by those who simply refuse to do so during a long period of suffering, or those who wish for an easy way out via suicide.
It is certainly my hope that should I ever be in such a situation, the law will allow me the self-determination to end my life as and when I deem it appropriate, to the best of my powers.
It is my hope that, should I ever be in such a situation, I will muster the will and courage to live with my disability and help others through it. My personal ills should not hinder my obedience to God’s will and the aid of others, nor should it hinder my own happiness.
I also don’t believe it is valid to compare such self-directed action with state-sanctioned killing of the kind enacted by any totalitarian regime like that of the Nazis or the Soviets - that was based on government ideology, not on individual preference. Proper euthanasia laws would allow for differences of religion or creed or personal desire, and would not demand that any individual relinquish their life against their will.
The difference between God’s will and not-God’s-will is the difference between life and the absence of life. What do you suppose is the repercussion of choosing “absence of life”?
All life is equal, but some life is more equal than others…
I never said all life is equal. You would be putting words in my mouth there. There is a definitive difference between physical life, spiritual life, and spiritual indwelling. All are sacred, but to varying degrees and for varying purposes.
What of those humans who sincerely believe (as I do) that we have no more to gain by continuing in an existence of agony and indignity?
Those humans simply bypass the opportunity to use the situation for a better outcome. Those people are also capable of choosing whether or not they are living in indignity. Dignity is more an act of the will than a result of physical appearance or feeling.
Doesn’t forcing such persons to continue to live violate certain freedoms, as freedom of religion (more so in the US than in Australia, but even so…)?
Any way of elaborating on that one?
I certainly do not believe that other animals are less sacred, however that is meant, than humans.
Then your beef would be with the Church’s official doctrine, not me.
If respecting the life of a dog, for example, means ending that life when it has become one of unbearable suffering, why do we not extend the same compassion to humans?
Animals’ misery cannot be utilized for their own benefit or the benefit of others because 1) they have no free will - thus they cannot deliberately offer their sufferings for a greater benefit. That being said, since they cannot, through their own freedom of choice, willingly offer their sufferings, it is more-or-less needless/useless suffering. 2) they haven’t a soul, at very least in the capacity of a human. As far we know, their lives most likely end here on earth. They have no greater goal to focus on in which suffering here would mean greater reward afterwards.

Humanity does not have the same priorities as animals however. Since we are both physical AND spiritual, with spiritual life being most important, we are required to look after the health of others and ourselves, because our spiritual life is dependant upon our physical life. Since God commands that physical life is to be respected, our obedience to that law filters into the outcome of our spiritual life.

Another fact that you need to take into consideration is that when we do help to preserve the lives of others or ourselves, comforting the person in agony is of great importance. We do not believe that we can just stick someone on life support and let them sit in a dark room without sun or company until they do eventually perish. Caring for and nurturing a person in life is just as important as preserving the life itself. It is also the will of the person in agony that is of the most importance in that issue. Even non-Christians have found peace in the agony of illness - it’s an act of the will to be content with one’s place.
What is “the most appropriate fashion” in which to continue in pain, despair and indignity?
The most appropriate fashion in which to continue in pain, despair, and indignity is to stop doing all three by accepting pain for what it is, realizing that despair is inherently unreasonable and illogical (thus completely useless), and hold one’s spiritual self to a greater standard even when the body might not present a similar opportunity.

Our goal is to follow in the footsteps of Christ, which includes bearing our cross for others - not giving ourselves lethal injections before our own passion is to come.
Religious belief would seem to be a requirement to consider that there could be anything to be gained by such persistence in torment.
I disagree, based on my previous response, one post up ^. Even if it were true though, I don’t see how it would be flawed. God never said that His will and secular authority would consistently go hand in hand. That “requirement” is what led so many Romans to the Church after witnessing martyrs in the Coliseum.
 
Sair;9670676:
What of those humans who sincerely believe (as I do) that we have no more to gain by continuing in an existence of agony and indignity? Doesn’t forcing such persons to continue to live violate certain freedoms, as freedom of religion (more so in the US than in Australia, but even so…)
Any way of elaborating on that one?
It appears that one of the significant “positives” that you see in prolonging the life of some one in a deteriorating non-recoverable condition is from the concept of redemptive suffering. That’s something that seems to be specifically a Catholic concept (though I do think there’s some similar Muslim concept). It’s not something that is a part of all forms of Christianity and not necessarily part of the lives and teachings of various non-Christians. There too are also people that while identifying themselves as Catholic do not subscribe to the concept, such as the Catholic on the thread I referenced earlier.

So it seems that using redemptive suffering as a basis for not allowing someone to end their life and their suffering is using constraining some one to operating under the rules of a religion to which either she or he doesn’t fully subscribe or may not be following at all. There’s a question of whether or not this is a violation of the Establishment Clause of the USA constitution which allows some one freedom of and freedom from religion.
 
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