Euthanasia

[josh987654321]

Hi,

I would first like to start by saying that I am completely against Euthanasia.

I have started this thread as I have never debated this topic with others before and don’t believe I could defend my view very well if/when it comes under fire, thus I would like to be prepared when/if my views against Euthanasia ever come under fire.

If you have read articles and things on secular or non-secular strong arguments against Euthanasia, I would be very interested in reading them, Id also like to encourage even those who arn’t against Euthanasia to post aswell as I tend to learn more by having both view points expressed.

Thank you
Josh

 

[Phil_Marinus]

Hi Josh

 I support Euthanasia ,, it's a very serious subject,,,, not something that can be discussed in two minutes ,,,, but after serious consideration, I agree under certain circumstances it should be permitted....

So unfortunately I can’t help in the opposing view …

 

[josh987654321]

Hi Josh

 I support Euthanasia ,, it's a very serious subject,,,, not something that can be discussed in two minutes ,,,, but after serious consideration, I agree under certain circumstances it should be permitted....

So unfortunately I can’t help in the opposing view …

Thank you Phil, would you mind if I ask under what circumstances?

I find that some of the few arguments I have read are based more on how it would be abused if it were legalised and not so much focused on euthanasia itself.

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[27lw]

Well, just off the top of my head,

1. There is the “slippery slope” argument, that the laws may start with euthanasia for the terminally ill who are in pain, but usually that progresses to just about anyone wants to commit suicide (there are recent examples of this in Belgium in particular).
2. Disability rights organization don’t like the idea, often, because it implies that some outside judge can decide who has a good enough “quality of life”, that there is some level of “quality of life” below which it isn’t worth living. Which is antithetical to a lot of religions, and different ideas of morality.
   You might look at the websites for “Care not killing”, which is based in the UK, and “www.notdeadyet.org” in the US.
   I’m sure lots of people will have other great ideas!

Also, here’s a recent article from the WSJ:

online.wsj.com/news/articles/…95102975991248

Here’s a quote from it about the situation in Belgium:​

"Now the Belgian senate is debating whether to expand the law. One of the most controversial proposals would let severely ill, suffering minors request euthanasia, if a psychiatrist finds they have a “capacity for discernment” and if their parents agree.

The Catholic Church, among others, fiercely objects to that. “Minors are…considered legally incapable of certain acts, for example buying or selling, marrying, and so on,” Msgr. Andre-Joseph Leonard, archbishop of Brussels, told reporters recently. “And here all of a sudden, they’re sufficiently mature in the eyes of the law to ask someone to take their lives?”

 

[Mumbles140]

Hi Josh

 I support Euthanasia ,, it's a very serious subject,,,, not something that can be discussed in two minutes ,,,, but after serious consideration, I agree under certain circumstances it should be permitted....

So unfortunately I can’t help in the opposing view …

I’m sorry to hear that, Phil. I hope that the ‘certain circumstances’ you refer to are actually cases requiring extraordinary care, and therefore not required, thus the ceasing (or non-application) of those measures would not be considered euthanasia. If, on the other hand, you mean something similar to pulling the plug on a quadriplegic, then I pray you can open your heart to see and love the essential dignity of all humans given by God.

For those who don’t know about Euthanasia, they’re about 4 feet tall, tan skin, dark hair…

 

[bilop]

Hi,

I would first like to start by saying that I am completely against Euthanasia.

I have started this thread as I have never debated this topic with others before and don’t believe I could defend my view very well if/when it comes under fire, thus I would like to be prepared when/if my views against Euthanasia ever come under fire.

If you have read articles and things on secular or non-secular strong arguments against Euthanasia, I would be very interested in reading them, Id also like to encourage even those who arn’t against Euthanasia to post aswell as I tend to learn more by having both view points expressed.

Thank you
Josh

I think one critical thing is to make the distinction between 1) withdrawing or not starting certain medical treatments, 2) treating someone’s pain even though it risks death, and 3) directly killing a sick person.

Both 1) and 2) can be morally acceptable. 3) is never acceptable.

God Bless

 

[mikekle]

If the secular world justifies and makes abortion legal, then they would have no problem with Euthanasia either, there is no difference, killing is killing.

If people can justify the killing of babies, then they would have no problems with other killing as well. its that simple.

 

[IfYouLeadMe]

As posted further above, I can see one of the biggest dangers of Euthanasia is it being abused as, it is more or less, an easy form of suicide.

I could never speak for another human what they are personally going through or have been through. I am not one to judge and I cannot fathom what that kind of pain and illness must feel like.

Do we give people this choice? Such a tricky question. An embryo or baby in the womb cannot speak - so abortion is murder. Euthanasia is a choice made by that person. But ending someone’s life unnaturally just doesn’t sit right with me.

My Grandma passed away last year. She spent roughly 2 months in hospital and her last week or so was in palliative care. Just prior to that she was certainly wanting to die but not to the point of Euthanasia, she would have been absolutely against it if given that choice. It got to the point of her not even being able to take a teaspoon of water from my Mum. Doctors and nurses suggested things to my Mum which she did not agree to. All they did was keep her sedated so she wasn’t in too much pain and she more or less slept until she fell into eternal sleep. It was painful to watch but we knew God would take her when He was ready.

We suffer many struggles in our life and we are supposed to ask Our Lord to help us carry our crosses in life. He suffered the greatest agony for us, in order for us to have eternal life. So illness and suffering on Earth is barely even the equivalent of the blink of an eye when compared to an eternity in Heaven.

My 2 cents…

 

[Phil_Marinus]

Thank you Phil, would you mind if I ask under what circumstances?

I find that some of the few arguments I have read are based more on how it would be abused if it were legalised and not so much focused on euthanasia itself.

Thank you for reading
Josh

    Well....I know of Two situations.... one is very graphic....

Car accident victim … head & Body complete mess… never any chance of recovery…
over a week in a coma… was put to sleep… parents thanked the Doctor …
second was an elderly lady… was a vegetable … could not move or communicate …
husband refused to let her go.stayed by her side for 6 years,was there 7 days per week…
was that a life for either of them ?
The only thing that makes it difficult… is relatives would take advantage only for there own personal gain… Euthanasia I know constantly gets linked to abortion…
They seem to be one of the same… but are they ?
it really is an emotional question… it’s not something that can be glossed over with a standard response…

 

[edwest2]

Here is a good article:

ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/TEACHEUT.HTM

Peace,
Ed

 

[thistle]

Hi,

I would first like to start by saying that I am completely against Euthanasia.

I have started this thread as I have never debated this topic with others before and don’t believe I could defend my view very well if/when it comes under fire, thus I would like to be prepared when/if my views against Euthanasia ever come under fire.

If you have read articles and things on secular or non-secular strong arguments against Euthanasia, I would be very interested in reading them, Id also like to encourage even those who arn’t against Euthanasia to post aswell as I tend to learn more by having both view points expressed.

Thank you
Josh

The Church teaching:

CCC 2324 Intentional euthanasia, whatever its forms or motives, is murder. It is gravely contrary to the dignity of the human person and to the respect due to the living God, his Creator.

CCC 2277 Whatever its motives and means, direct euthanasia consists in putting an end to the lives of handicapped, sick, or dying persons. It is morally unacceptable.

Thus an act or omission which, of itself or by intention, causes death in order to eliminate suffering constitutes a murder gravely contrary to the dignity of the human person and to the respect due to the living God, his Creator. The error of judgment into which one can fall in good faith does not change the nature of this murderous act, which must always be forbidden and excluded.

 

[josh987654321]

Thank you everyone for your posts, keep them coming please

Well…I know of Two situations… one is very graphic…
Car accident victim … head & Body complete mess… never any chance of recovery…
over a week in a coma… was put to sleep… parents thanked the Doctor …
second was an elderly lady… was a vegetable … could not move or communicate …
husband refused to let her go.stayed by her side for 6 years,was there 7 days per week…
was that a life for either of them ?

The only thing that makes it difficult… is relatives would take advantage only for there own personal gain… Euthanasia I know constantly gets linked to abortion…

I don’t view them the same, I have little tolerance for abortion advocates, whereas, for example with very rare cases, I at least understand those who are not against euthanasia.

They seem to be one of the same… but are they ?
it really is an emotional question… it’s not something that can be glossed over with a standard response…

I agree.

I think the best thing to focus on with this issue is suicide itself, do you believe there is any circumstance in which suicide itself would be morally permissable/good?

I believe this is a focus point for me when it comes to euthanasia (assisted suicide), because whilst they are not killing themselves, by asking you to do it and thus you carrying it out, I believe you are assisting them in their condemnation and thus condemning yourself through it also. I believe euthanasia is a corrupted view of compassion, just like I believe it would be a corrupted view of compassion to advocate someone who is suffering to take their own life and commit suicide. (infact to advocate someone to take their own life would be just plain evil I believe).

I would like to ask you Phil to please watch this -

Does suicide send you to hell? - Dr. Ravi Zacharias Respond

Id like to ask you Phil to focus on suicide itself, and then I believe it will automatically cross over onto assisted suicided and thus why I am completely against euthanasia.
Catechism of the Catholic Church:

Suicide

2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of.

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.

Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

2283 We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.

Id also like to re-quote this from the CCC -

*Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide. *

Do you believe the person who commits euthanasia, who assists the suicide, has any of these in which would diminish his/her responsibility?

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Phil_Marinus]

Josh987654321

Do I believe there is any circumstance in which suicide itself would be
morally permissible /good ?
Well,there is the dilemma .
a person taking a rope to a tree… No , that is totally wrong.
so much depends on circumstance. Assisted Suicide ? well depends on the situation…
as I said earlier, it’s not something that can be glossed over with a standard response…

Euthanasia a corrupted view of compassion ?
you could very well be right… but perhaps until you are faced with such an emotional
situation yourself…
I myself have not faced this myself, I have an open mind on the matter…but have had the good fortune to speak first hand
to Doctors & nurses & Police whom have faced this situation… and had to make difficult choices.
Euthanasia is really such a complex issue in itself… it’s really really hard to deal with.

 

[josh987654321]

Josh987654321

Do I believe there is any circumstance in which suicide itself would be
morally permissible /good ?
Well,there is the dilemma .

Yup. I know that euthanasia and suicide are hard topics to discuss.

a person taking a rope to a tree… No , that is totally wrong.

I just don’t see a difference between a person taking a rope to a tree (suicide) and someone tying that rope up for them (euthanasia). whether it be a rope or a pill.

so much depends on circumstance. Assisted Suicide ? well depends on the situation…

Like I said, I believe it’s best to focus on suicide itself, than the conclusion reached there will automatically have to cross over to euthanasia (assisted suicide)

as I said earlier, it’s not something that can be glossed over with a standard response…

I don’t think so either, thus why I wish to debate it further.

Euthanasia a corrupted view of compassion ?
you could very well be right… but perhaps until you are faced with such an emotional
situation yourself…

True, very true, but I believe it would be quite evil for someone of sound mind and health to play into another’s suicidal temptations, I would rather be there to give them hope, as they always say, it isn’t over until it’s over.

I myself have not faced this myself, I have an open mind on the matter…but have had the good fortune to speak first hand
to Doctors & nurses & Police whom have faced this situation… and had to make difficult choices.
Euthanasia is really such a complex issue in itself… it’s really really hard to deal with.

I agree.

That’s why I would ask you to put your faith in God and trust in him (to have hope) if you were ever faced with such a prospect as assisted suicide.

If you cannot say “no” to assisted suicide due to suffering factors (whether it be mental or physical), how can you say “no” to anyone else who may be toying with the idea of taking their own life?

I believe Ravi said it best in this youtube video linked in my previous post -

Does suicide send you to hell? - Dr. Ravi Zacharias Respond

The Devil plays on our sufferings, but rest assured that the Devil can be easily defeated through the experience of the cross, have hope, have faith in God.

God Bless you Phil.

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Phil_Marinus]

You are one intelligent man… would love to share a cuppa and frozen lamington with you…

I have an open mind on this issue…but there are invisible boundaries that move…

 

[josh987654321]

You are one intelligent man… would love to share a cuppa and frozen lamington with you…

Thank you Phil, God bless you brother

I have an open mind on this issue…but there are invisible boundaries that move…

I’m not a 100% sure what you mean here. but I completely understand where you are at with this, thus why I wish to discuss this topic and learn more about it and how to discuss it, because if I cannot convince you, than I don’t believe that I can convince anyone else.

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Phil_Marinus]

Thank you Phil, God bless you brother

I’m not a 100% sure what you mean here. but I completely understand where you are at with this, thus why I wish to discuss this topic and leanr more about it, because if I cannot convince you, than I don’t believe that I can convince anyone else.

Thank you for reading
Josh

hahaha… if you cannot convince me,you can’t convince anyone…
well…my opinion in based on a life time of talking to people about there thoughts and life experience… plus born and raised on a Dairy farm, Birth,life and death are an everyday occurrence … if an animal is in pain and suffering because it has an eye cancer which has moved to the brain , what do you do ?
if your best dog has had its legs cut of by a machine what do you do ?
God bless...... I'm serious about that cuppa too... lol

 

[josh987654321]

hahaha… if you cannot convince me,you can’t convince anyone…
well…my opinion is based on a life time of talking to people about there thoughts and life experience… plus born and raised on a Dairy farm, Birth,life and death are an everyday occurrence … if an animal is in pain and suffering because it has an eye cancer which has moved to the brain , what do you do ?
if your best dog has had its legs cut of by a machine what do you do ?

True. I just believe it is different when it comes to the sacredness of human life. as I wouldn’t really use the analogy, suppose your hungry … what do you do? lol

God bless… I’m serious about that cuppa too… lol

haha, Id lose my anonymity
Thank you for the offer,

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[mikekle]

Josh987654321

Do I believe there is any circumstance in which suicide itself would be
morally permissible /good ?
Well,there is the dilemma .
a person taking a rope to a tree… No , that is totally wrong.
so much depends on circumstance. Assisted Suicide ? well depends on the situation…
as I said earlier, it’s not something that can be glossed over with a standard response…

Euthanasia a corrupted view of compassion ?
you could very well be right… but perhaps until you are faced with such an emotional
situation yourself…
I myself have not faced this myself, I have an open mind on the matter…but have had the good fortune to speak first hand
to Doctors & nurses & Police whom have faced this situation… and had to make difficult choices.
Euthanasia is really such a complex issue in itself… it’s really really hard to deal with.

We are taught by God that he will not give anyone more than they can handle though. So I cannot agree with Euthanasia in any situation.

Agreeing with this is the same as saying that person knows better than God as to what they can handle and what they cannot. If God thinks its too much, he will call them home, he has this power at all times, and he knows all of on an intimate level…at all times as well, so there is NEVER a time when he does not know what we are going thru.