Evangelical Baptism

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It seems to me that many Catholics on this forum assume Evangelical baptisms are valid. Is this universally held in the Church? I am a former Evangelical Protestant currently seeking full communion with the Church. My bishop decided that I shall be conditionally baptized. I certainly can see that Anglican, Lutheran, etc baptisms should be accepted as valid, but how can we be certain of Evangelical baptisms? It is true that the form is correct, but since the theology is so different (symbolic/declaration, non-sacramental), how can the intention be the same?

I suppose it comes down to whether or not the correct intention is an essential component of the sacrament.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
(As well as experiences of other Evangelicals…I know Scott Hahn was conditinally baptized, like I will be, but I’d like to hear from other converts).

In addition, I’d like us to consider the following: if Evangelical baptisms are often, or always, invalid, then what of those who were received into the Church by confirmation and First Communion alone? If any of them went on to be priests, their orders would be invalid.
 
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twf:
It seems to me that many Catholics on this forum assume Evangelical baptisms are valid. Is this universally held in the Church? I am a former Evangelical Protestant currently seeking full communion with the Church. My bishop decided that I shall be conditionally baptized. I certainly can see that Anglican, Lutheran, etc baptisms should be accepted as valid, but how can we be certain of Evangelical baptisms? It is true that the form is correct, but since the theology is so different (symbolic/declaration, non-sacramental), how can the intention be the same?

I suppose it comes down to whether or not the correct intention is an essential component of the sacrament.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
(As well as experiences of other Evangelicals…I know Scott Hahn was conditinally baptized, like I will be, but I’d like to hear from other converts).

In addition, I’d like us to consider the following: if Evangelical baptisms are often, or always, invalid, then what of those who were received into the Church by confirmation and First Communion alone? If any of them went on to be priests, their orders would be invalid.
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I’m not a convert. It’s normal to have a conditional baptism in your case. I have never heard of anyone , not baptised, becoming a priest. But have you heard about baptism of desire or baptism of blood. Many Christians have not been baptised properly, through no fault of their own. And if they knew it, they would immediately get properly baptised- these people receveive a baptism of desire. But must be properly baptised when they find the truth. Another classic example is that in the colloseum, where many Christians were martyred, often pagan Romans would jump into the arena, and cry " I’m with the Christians".They were so inspired by the example of the Christians. They were baptised in their own blood. Indeed, they were martyrs.
 
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twf:
I suppose it comes down to whether or not the correct intention is an essential component of the sacrament.

In addition, I’d like us to consider the following: if Evangelical baptisms are often, or always, invalid, then what of those who were received into the Church by confirmation and First Communion alone? If any of them went on to be priests, their orders would be invalid.
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Intention is always necessary for the validity of a Sacrament.

What then of those who attempted to enter the Church with Confirmation and Eucharist, without valid Baptism? As the Church teaches WITHOUT BAPTISM NO OTHER SACRAMENTS CAN BE VALIDLY RECEIVED!

Conditional Baptisms are always done privately. So it is possible that others were conditionally Baptized but that is not known by anyone outside of the Pastor, deacon, Sponsor and possibly the RCIA team.
 
Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut. Actually my conditional baptism will be a public affair (probably, anyway).
 
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twf:
Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut. Actually my conditional baptism will be a public affair (probably, anyway).
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It should not be public. This is to protect the teaching of the Church from misunderstanding that Baptism cannot in any way be repeated. We today have SO many people that speak of their “Re-Baptism”. We need to do everything we can to avoid misunderstandings about “Re-Baptism.”
 
If I remember my studies correctly … I believe that so long as the Baptism was valid in form (I.E. “In the name of the Father , Son, and Holy Spirit.”) then it is considered valid. Conditional Baptism is only for those cases where the person is unsure. Most Evangelicals use a valid form, (I think), Now we see why we do conditional Baptism I guess, huh?

Regardless…Welcome Home!
 
as I understand it “Evangelical” is not a specific denomination with a historical root, like Lutheran or Anglican, but a descriptive term applied to a number of different sects that share some characteristics, may be “more or less” fundamentalist in outlook, and may or may not agree on essentials of doctrine and practice. Since these denominations may vary in their theology and manner of baptism, there may be some doubt as to the validity of the baptism. If the individual cannot find out or remember if the conditions for valid baptism were met, a conditional baptism may be done (privately) before the person is received into the Catholic church.
 
Is anyone still monitoring this thread? I hope so.

I was baptized in the Baptist Church at about 7 yrs old. I had made my profession of faith and asked for the baptism myself. However, I was young enough that I don’t remember exactly what words were used.

Still, assuming that the form was correct, I know for certain the intent wasn’t. Neither myself or my pastor viewed baptism as sacramental, or even necessary. This makes me now question the validity of my baptism.

Several years ago, I was received into the Catholic Church without a conditional baptism. What should I do now that I have these fears? Would it be appropriate to approach our deacon on the matter? I would feel much more comfortable bringing this up to him, rather than the priest.
 
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twf:
It seems to me that many Catholics on this forum assume Evangelical baptisms are valid. Is this universally held in the Church? I am a former Evangelical Protestant currently seeking full communion with the Church. My bishop decided that I shall be conditionally baptized. .
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there are many denominations that call themselves Evangelical. It is the bishop’s decision, reached by simply asking leadership of that denomination to describe their baptismal ritual and belief. Each diocese has a guideline on which baptisms are valid matter and form, and if there is a question, the candidate will receive a conditional baptism. As far as intent, fulfilling the proper matter and form presumes proper intent, so there is no need to agonize about it. The action of the sacraments are not dependent on the belief of the minister, but on the grace of Jesus Christ.

In the case of a convert who entered the Church through a profession of faith, confirmation and first communion, you assume these are valid sacraments, following a valid baptism. That call was made by the priest who brought the person into the church, not our problem. The problem arises when people cannot remember when or where they were baptized, family members have a hazy memory, have no idea how to locate the records. Someone baptized as a youth or adult, or someone who has been faithful to their baptismal faith has a better recollection of what was involved in the ceremony.
 
Just a quick comment on conditional baptisms done publically – the normal method is for the bishop/priest/deacon doing the baptism to say quietly “If you are not already baptized…” and then, in a normal tone of voice, “I baptize you…” so that the conditional nature of the baptism is not revealed.

Deacon Ed
 
Aren’t there a few Evangelical sects that DON’T baptize using a Trinitarian formula? I believe they baptize in Jesus’ name only.I would think that conditional baptisms would be most likely in cases where it was not known the nature of the Evangelical church at the time of the baptism.
 
I saw a listing the other day of groups whose baptisms are definately “out” but I can’t remember where… it didn’t proclaim tha those were the only ones that weren’t valid, but it would at least acknowledge which ones it is known don’t use the trinitarian formula…(it also had a list of known protestant denominations that DO use the trinitarian formula)
 
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forthright:
Is anyone still monitoring this thread? I hope so.

I was baptized in the Baptist Church at about 7 yrs old. I had made my profession of faith and asked for the baptism myself. However, I was young enough that I don’t remember exactly what words were used.

Still, assuming that the form was correct, I know for certain the intent wasn’t. Neither myself or my pastor viewed baptism as sacramental, or even necessary. This makes me now question the validity of my baptism.

Several years ago, I was received into the Catholic Church without a conditional baptism. What should I do now that I have these fears? Would it be appropriate to approach our deacon on the matter? I would feel much more comfortable bringing this up to him, rather than the priest.
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I would speak with your pastor. If there is a real doubt you can now be conditionally Baptized and your Confirmation would then become valid. You would not need to be Confirmed again.
 
May I ask what a conditional baptism is?

Another member of my RCIA group and I were baptised Methodists before coverting to the Catholic Church. We didn’t undergo any type of baptism to enter the Catholic Church because the Church said our baptisms were accepted as valid already so while non-Christians in our RCIA group were baptised we went through a slightly different ceremony on the day and were formally accepted into the Catholic Church.
 
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thistle:
May I ask what a conditional baptism is?
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In cases where your baptism may be questionable, the Church may perform a “conditional baptism.” It basically consists of adding a loop hole just before the rite by saying “if you’re not already baptized, then I baptize you . . . .”

The risk is that by performing a second baptism, you sin against the Holy Spirit by implying that he did not do his job fully at the first baptism - this would be a very serious sin. (I don’t know if I’d say mortal, but I wouldn’t push it.) Of course the flip side is that if you don’t have a valid baptism in the first place, you may be sinning against God by receiving the Eucharist unworthily - and equal or probably greater sin.

Organized Protestant churches, such as Lutherans, Anglicans, and Methodists, have strict rules about using the Trinitarian formula and view baptism as having at least some type of grace-infusing power. Independant churches, such as is my case, vary widely in belief and practice from local church to local church. This is the source of my concern regarding my own baptism.
 
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