Evangelical chaplains may face ultimatum

[1holycatholic]

Evangelical chaplains may face ultimatum
http://www.onenewsnow.com/uploadedImages/Media/Images/USN_chaplain_corps.jpgGordon James Klingenschmitt is a former Navy chaplain who was forced out of the service in 2007 for praying in Jesus’ name. He says the Obama Pentagon wants to purge evangelical, Bible-preaching chaplains from the service by giving them an ultimatum – “reconcile” with homosexual sin, or quit.

Pentagon leaders preparing to impose open homosexuality on the military are serving notice that discrimination against the deviant lifestyle will not be tolerated. In a recently released memorandum, Defense Secretary Robert Gates directed his policy staff to move ahead carefully, but expeditiously, to end the ban on military service for open homosexuals.

Officials said they will complete implementation plans for the new policy by Friday, February 4, and will commence indoctrination training this month.
…

 

[Dale_M]

The article in the first post is from the American Family Association, a conservative pressure group. It cites the opinion of former US Navy chaplain Gordon Klingenschmitt who was courtmartialed in 2006 for appearing in uniform at a political rally in direct defiance of orders.
washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/14/AR2006091401544.html

This is a man who has engaged in imprecatory prayer (essentially using prayer as a curse) against people who oppose him.
militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/audio_recordings.html

I don’t think Klingenschmit has much credibility.

 

[kenofken]

If these chaplains can’t bring themselves to serve the needs of our soldiers with dignity and without ramming their agenda down everyone’s throat, good riddance to them. If we wanted Imams to dictate our consciences, we wouldn’t be fighting the Afghans, we’d sign surrender papers and marry into the tribes.

 

[SamH]

The article in the first post is from the American Family Association, a conservative pressure group. It cites the opinion of former US Navy chaplain Gordon Klingenschmitt who was courtmartialed in 2006 for appearing in uniform at a political rally in direct defiance of orders.
washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/14/AR2006091401544.html

This is a man who has engaged in imprecatory prayer (essentially using prayer as a curse) against people who oppose him.
militaryreligiousfreedom.org/press-releases/audio_recordings.html

I don’t think Klingenschmit has much credibility.

Then you should cast your net wider.

Among the issues raised by chaplains, according to the report, is whether a change in policy would hinder ministers’ religious expression, particularly for those faiths that consider homosexuality immoral.

“Chaplains who aren’t able to proclaim what they believe is true about this issue … means that the soldier then, the airman, the sailor, the guardian, the Marine aren’t able to get the full opportunity to hear religious faiths,” retired Army Chaplain Brigadier Gen. Douglas Lee tells CNN.

A chaplain for more than 30 years, Lee now serves as executive director of a Presbyterian group that endorses military chaplains from six denominations. A clergy member must be endorsed by a religious group or denomination in order to serve as a chaplain.

Lee and dozens of other former military chaplains signed a letter earlier this year to President Barack Obama and Defense Secretary Robert Gates urging them not to repeal “don’t ask, don’t tell.”

“I fear and many others fear that down the road, knowing the other agenda items that are on the plate of those promoting a homosexual lifestyle, (there) would be a concern that chaplains would be restricted from proclaiming their faith tenets,” says Lee.

Chaplains provide counseling, guidance and perform religious rites, such as baptisms and marriage, for service members.

articles.cnn.com/2010-12-05/politics/dadt.chaplains_1_chaplains-service-members-repeal?_s=PMOLITICS

It’s not like there is only one person with this concern.

 

[SamH]

If these chaplains can’t bring themselves to serve the needs of our soldiers with dignity and without ramming their agenda down everyone’s throat, good riddance to them. If we wanted Imams to dictate our consciences, we wouldn’t be fighting the Afghans, we’d sign surrender papers and marry into the tribes.

The army is a volunteer force and no member of the military is forced to see a chaplain.

 

[SamH]

Actually it is not.

 

[kenofken]

The army is a volunteer force and no member of the military is forced to see a chaplain.

Nor is anyone forced to serve as a chaplain. The tradition of the position has ALWAYS been to place the needs of the troops above ones own. It has explicitly not been understood as a missionary field for preachers.

 

[Warrenton]

If If we wanted Imams to dictate our consciences, we wouldn’t be fighting the Afghans, we’d sign surrender papers and marry into the tribes.

It would probably be more successful than what we’ve been doing over there.

 

[SamH]

Since when?

 

[SamH]

Nor is anyone forced to serve as a chaplain. The tradition of the position has ALWAYS been to place the needs of the troops above ones own. It has explicitly not been understood as a missionary field for preachers.

And some troops need to be ministered as their religion is taught. Will Catholic troops no longer be allowed to have a priest since priest will no longer be allowed to teach that homosexual acts are a sin?

 

[SamH]

I don’t think you know what secular means.

A secular state is a concept of secularism, whereby a state or country purports to be officially neutral in matters of religion, supporting neither religion nor irreligion.

What you propose is that the army actually suppress religions that it does not agree with - hardly a neutral position.

 

[a_priori]

Do Islamic chaplains get asked to tone down their message?

 

[SamH]

Source?

 

[a_priori]

Right, I have nothing better to do than fling Red Herrings into CAF discussions. Reread the OP. Might help. Chaplains? Teaching? Ultimata?

 

[Dale_M]

Right, I have nothing better to do than fling Red Herrings into CAF discussions.

I guess I don’t understand your question either. Why do you think Muslim chaplains would be held to different standard than Christian chaplains?

 

[a_priori]

I guess I don’t understand your question either. Why do you think Muslim chaplains would be held to different standard than Christian chaplains?

Is this thread not about a Chaplain who believes something, teaches it, then gets told to change his message or else? My point is this: Would an Islamic Chaplain be similarly asked to change his message or be canned? It was a simple question. No reason to ascribe malevolent intent. Does the same standard apply to all Chaplains? It’s not a complicated question or concept.

 

[a_priori]

BTW, how in the world did you get this from my post? Of course an Imam could minister.

 

[Dale_M]

Is this thread not about a Chaplain who believes something, teaches it, then gets told to change his message or else? My point is this: Would an Islamic Chaplain be similarly asked to change his message or be canned? It was a simple question. No reason to ascribe malevolent intent. Does the same standard apply to all Chaplains? It’s not a complicated question or concept.

Again, I have to ask: why do you think a Muslim chaplain wouldn’t be held to the same standard? I see no reason to think that he wouldn’t.

I’m not ascribing any kind of malevolence to your question, just that it seems unfounded.

 

[TMC]

Nor is anyone forced to serve as a chaplain. The tradition of the position has ALWAYS been to place the needs of the troops above ones own. It has explicitly not been understood as a missionary field for preachers.

You are correct, of course. This is not a new issue in the Navy’s chaplain corps. Some evangelical chaplains have been trying for years to force the Navy to allow them to proselytize for their particular faiths instead of serving all servicemembers equally. Ironically, the biggest danger to the chaplain corps is not that the government is anti-religion (its not), it is that zealots like this will cause so many problems that they will create a movement to get rid of all chaplains. (Notice that you rarely (to never) hear of these kinds of problems with Catholic chaplains.)

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

You are correct, of course. This is not a new issue in the Navy’s chaplain corps. Some evangelical chaplains have been trying for years to force the Navy to allow them to proselytize for their particular faiths instead of serving all servicemembers equally. Ironically, the biggest danger to the chaplain corps is not that the government is anti-religion (its not), it is that zealots like this will cause so many problems that they will create a movement to get rid of all chaplains. (Notice that you rarely (to never) hear of these kinds of problems with Catholic chaplains.)

Sorry I don’t have a link, but I’ve read where young Catholic sailors are the targets of proselytizing by evangelical chaplains and their own evangelical shipmates. It’s tough because unlike Army and Air Force troops, they can’t just walk off and go somewhere else. They’re trapped on those boats (ships?) where it’s hard to get away from others.

And, yes, Catholic chaplains NEVER, NEVER proselytize the way those others do.