Evangelical Relatives

[CarolNoel]

And how is it loving to give in to listening to sermons in which preachers rant against the Catholic Church? I have no doubt that the instant the minister of such a church hears there’s a Catholic in attendance, that’s just what the OP would be forced to sit through. And no, not all worship of God is of equal value. There is no higher worship that the Sacrifice of the Altar, which no Evangelical church has or could have.

Evangelicals would not be celebrating the birth of Christ if the Catholic Church hadn’t set a date for celebrating the Mass in honor of it. And many Evangelical churches don’t even have a service (not a Mass–they have no celebration of the Mass) on Christmas Day because they see it as a family holiday, not a religious one, oddly enough.

Christmas, and all Sundays, are holy days of obligation that no Catholic may be excused from to merely to please the anti-Catholic sentiments of non-Catholic family members. This would be the very worst thing he could do because it would give his relatives two very wrong ideas: that the Mass means nothing and that all they have to do is bully him to get him to not go. Worst of all, that he will renounce his Catholic faith if they only keep on pushing him. Where is the love in that?

Real love does not compromise truth in order to make appeasement to those who are determined to destroy one’s faith. As Catholics are always to speak the truth in love, and if that doesn’t work, then we are perfectly within our rights to ignore and avoid anyone who persists in trying to proselytize us away from our Catholic faith.

Fantastic rebuttal Della:thumbsup:

 

[lynnanine]

Um, no.

This. Why would you stay at home and say a prayer instead of receiving His Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Eucharist? (beside the obligation, of course) Same for going to another service instead of the Mass–you cannot get the Eucharist outside of a Catholic Mass.

 

[shauny77890]

And how is it loving to give in to listening to sermons in which preachers rant against the Catholic Church? I have no doubt that the instant the minister of such a church hears there’s a Catholic in attendance, that’s just what the OP would be forced to sit through. And no, not all worship of God is of equal value. There is no higher worship that the Sacrifice of the Altar, which no Evangelical church has or could have.

Evangelicals would not be celebrating the birth of Christ if the Catholic Church hadn’t set a date for celebrating the Mass in honor of it. And many Evangelical churches don’t even have a service (not a Mass–they have no celebration of the Mass) on Christmas Day because they see it as a family holiday, not a religious one, oddly enough.

Christmas, and all Sundays, are holy days of obligation that no Catholic may be excused from to merely to please the anti-Catholic sentiments of non-Catholic family members. This would be the very worst thing he could do because it would give his relatives two very wrong ideas: that the Mass means nothing and that all they have to do is bully him to get him to not go. Worst of all, that he will renounce his Catholic faith if they only keep on pushing him. Where is the love in that?

Real love does not compromise truth in order to make appeasement to those who are determined to destroy one’s faith. As Catholics are always to speak the truth in love, and if that doesn’t work, then we are perfectly within our rights to ignore and avoid anyone who persists in trying to proselytize us away from our Catholic faith.

If a catholic is made fun of or laughed at by an evangelical vicar who is more loving?

If you have made someone happy at your expense who is more loving?

If you have made Christmas more joyous by not arguing about which church to go to then ask yourself… who is more loving?

Do the most loving thing like Christ would! We all know the story about a woman who was about to be stoned for committing adulatory but Jesus went against his religions beliefs and instead, rather than throwing a stone, he was kind to her because guess what?

He did the more loving thing!

As Catholics we should try to be like Jesus and Jesus many a time went against his Jewish beliefs to do the more loving thing!

 

[lynnanine]

If a catholic is made fun of or laughed at by an evangelical vicar who is more loving?

If you have made someone happy at your expense who is more loving?

If you have made Christmas more joyous by not arguing about which church to go to then ask yourself… who is more loving?

Do the most loving thing like Christ would! We all know the story about a woman who was about to be stoned for committing adulatory but Jesus went against his religions beliefs and instead, rather than throwing a stone, he was kind to her because guess what?

He did the more loving thing!

As Catholics we should try to be like Jesus and Jesus many a time went against his Jewish beliefs to do the more loving thing!

Loving someone doesn’t necessarily mean always making them happy. It means telling them the truth too, even if it makes them uncomfortable and squirming.

I have a question for you. Do you believe in the Real Presence? Do you believe that at the Mass, that Christ is present, in His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity in the Eucharist? If so, the most loving thing would be to spend time with Jesus, and to tell your family that He’s really there, not to ignore Him for the sake of making someone “happy.”

 

[Della]

If a catholic is made fun of or laughed at by an evangelical vicar who is more loving?

It’s one thing to put up with unkind comments when it cannot be avoided, but no Catholic can miss Mass in order to attend a Protestant service no matter what the minister might say or do.

If you have made someone happy at your expense who is more loving?

At whose expense? Attending an obligatory Mass is not being selfish it is being faithful to God first, which is the proper way to demonstrate real love. The Catholic may ask non-Catholics to attend Mass with him, but he is not being unloving by telling his non-Catholic family that he will not violate his faith just to make them feel comfortable or because they bully him into it.

If you have made Christmas more joyous by not arguing about which church to go to then ask yourself… who is more loving?

Who needs to argue about it? All he has to do is say, “I’m going to Mass. Who wants to come with me?” If they say they won’t he says, “Okay, I’ll see you later.”

Do the most loving thing like Christ would! We all know the story about a woman who was about to be stoned for committing adulatory but Jesus went against his religions beliefs and instead, rather than throwing a stone, he was kind to her because guess what?

Never in the whole of Jesus’ life did he “go against his religious beliefs” to do anything. The penalty for adultery was death but it could be commuted–it need not absolutely be carried out. Jesus, as God, forgave her and told her to “go and sin no more” not “well, so you sinned, just be careful not to get caught again.”

He did the more loving thing!

Indeed he did, and if he had thought she was unrepentant he could have stepped aside and let her be stoned. God is not merely merciful, he is also just. Something we need to keep firmly in mind.

As Catholics we should try to be like Jesus and Jesus many a time went against his Jewish beliefs to do the more loving thing!

No. Niceness is not love. Love, real love it not about accommodating others when they are bullying you to give up your faith and your obligations for their sake. Jesus told us that a man’s enemies would be members of his own household because some would demand they give up their faith for them. Sounds like that is what is happening here.

And again, Jesus never went against the Law of Moses. He said quite plainly that those who did and taught others to do so would be “the least in the kingdom of God.” He went against man-made conventions, yes, and so should we when they are not just. But he was not wishy-washy about sin or about keeping God’s law, and we can’t be either just to please other people’s sensibilities.

 

[Brandall]

I always find that funny they have an altar call, but don’t have an Altar I wonder what gives with that one.

I grew up in the Baptist Church and always liked the alter calls. Sorry you don’t seem to have the same appreciation. For what it’s worth, your comment might make you the Catholic version of the Evangelicals that are poking fun at the religious practices of the OP.

 

[Brandall]

And how is it loving to give in to listening to sermons in which preachers rant against the Catholic Church? I have no doubt that the instant the minister of such a church hears there’s a Catholic in attendance, that’s just what the OP would be forced to sit through. And no, not all worship of God is of equal value. There is no higher worship that the Sacrifice of the Altar, which no Evangelical church has or could have.

Evangelicals would not be celebrating the birth of Christ if the Catholic Church hadn’t set a date for celebrating the Mass in honor of it. And many Evangelical churches don’t even have a service (not a Mass–they have no celebration of the Mass) on Christmas Day because they see it as a family holiday, not a religious one, oddly enough.

Christmas, and all Sundays, are holy days of obligation that no Catholic may be excused from to merely to please the anti-Catholic sentiments of non-Catholic family members. This would be the very worst thing he could do because it would give his relatives two very wrong ideas: that the Mass means nothing and that all they have to do is bully him to get him to not go. Worst of all, that he will renounce his Catholic faith if they only keep on pushing him. Where is the love in that?

Real love does not compromise truth in order to make appeasement to those who are determined to destroy one’s faith. As Catholics are always to speak the truth in love, and if that doesn’t work, then we are perfectly within our rights to ignore and avoid anyone who persists in trying to proselytize us away from our Catholic faith.

I grew up in a Baptist Church and I never heard a pastor “rant” against the Catholic Church, much less target a guest. Then again, I’m southern and that might make a difference.

 

[Della]

I grew up in a Baptist Church and I never heard a pastor “rant” against the Catholic Church, much less target a guest. Then again, I’m southern and that might make a difference.

I’m so happy to hear that. I have heard Baptist pastors rant against the Church, sad to say, as well as others. I hope this kind of thing is lessening in our day, but it does exist. I have heard Catholic priests defend Catholic teaching and say that Catholics have no need to seek for truth outside the Church, but that’s as far as any have gone, in my experience. It may be that where there is a larger population of Catholics there is a greater friction/tension in some non-Catholic churches against Catholics. Who knows? But it shouldn’t happen no matter what the cause, I’m sure you agree.

 

[Brandall]

I’m so happy to hear that. I have heard Baptist pastors rant against the Church, sad to say, as well as others. I hope this kind of thing is lessening in our day, but it does exist. I have heard Catholic priests defend Catholic teaching and say that Catholics have no need to seek for truth outside the Church, but that’s as far as any have gone, in my experience. It may be that where there is a larger population of Catholics there is a greater friction/tension in some non-Catholic churches against Catholics. Who knows? But it shouldn’t happen no matter what the cause, I’m sure you agree.

I’m in RCIA and my wife attends the local mega church. Though I’m not a fan, occasionally I’ll attend her church and occasionally, she’ll attend mine. Can’t much expect her to visit my church if I won’t visit hers.

I do visit my friends at the Baptist Church on occasion. The pastor and I have been friends for 45 years and he is a master at giving a message. There is definite value in my visits there.

As for me, I’m joining the Catholic Church with eyes wide open. I’ve always told my kids that there will be many decisions in life where regardless of what you do, there will be regret. I won’t regret being a part of the Catholic Church but I do regret missing the Baptist Church. Spiritually, they are miles apart but both are of God.

Our former pastor was recently made an auxillary Bishop of the ArchD. I made sure to meet him before he left. The reasons were that I consider him a minor celebrity, a great pastor, he was a very holy man and he was raised in the Baptist Church. He encouraged me to not make the same mistake he did. He said that when he converted after a life changing experience in college, he wanted nothing to do with the Baptist Church. He said that years later he had to go back and apologize to “those God Loving People”.

Our RCIA class is mostly full of former members of other Christian denominations. They are just seeking more than what their former churches had to offer. Keep in mind that those non Catholic Churches are doing a great work of the Lord or I would not be where I am nor would the other converts in RCIA be where they are. While spiritually, there doesn’t seem to be a lot of depth to most other churches, they are not empty vessels.

 

[Della]

I agree completely, Brandall. I too am a convert to the Catholic faith. I can appreciate how your bishop felt about his former church affiliation, both with the feelings of anger and regret. He (and I) probably left our respective non-Catholic communities at a time when they were quite anti-Catholic. A lot of ecumenical progress has been made due to good people of faith wanting to bring Christians of all kinds together since then. But back 30 years ago, there was a lot of misunderstanding and animosity in some non-Catholic groups. There still are those that want to keep that kind of animosity going, but they are not in the majority on the Evangelical side, thanks be.

I learned much from my former ecclesial associations that I treasure and still draw upon. I was in one of them for about 20 years that was quite anti-Catholic when I got involved (through my mother–I was a young teen with no choice in the matter). When I left (to return to the church of my childhood) the Jack Chick kind of animosity had been replaced by a more nuanced dislike. In the years since they have become more open to the Catholic Church due to the charismatic movement within it.

As C. S. Lewis pointed out people of deep faith from different faith communities are closer to one another than the lukewarm from any and all faith communities in their devotion and love for God and each other. I have found that to be true, as well.

 

[lynnanine]

Jon_Donnis:

Christ lived.

Christ died.

How can he be alive…if he’s DEAD.

As a gay psychic medium, I have never talked to one dead person…ever.

Why?

They’re dead.

Like in doornails.

Jon Donnis

Respectfully, I disagree. I do think that’s a discussion for another thread, however. If you’d like to start one, I’m sure there are many posters here willing to speak on the topic.

 

[agnes_therese]

Jon_Donnis:

As a gay psychic medium, I have never talked to one dead person…ever.

Why?

They’re dead.

Like in doornails.

Jon Donnis

Then, how can you call yourself a medium? Really, I’m asking the question, not being snarky. I don’t see how someone can be a medium if they don’t (at least claim to) communicate with the dead.

 

[Avila123]

I asked a similar question and got some great advice from Catholic and Evangelical members - here is the link to the Thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=847661. Hope the good advice given to me helps you.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is a good source and its free online: usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/epub/index.cfm

I would recommend studying where some of their statements come from and look up a solid simple apologetic’s response and start a library. I am beginning to wonder whether God is using 2 people I know to learn more about my faith, how to behave and to be more considerate towards my separated family? It is so hard to meet rudeness and abuse with loving kindness, but with God all things are possible.

Praying for you.

 

[shauny77890]

I’m so happy to hear that. I have heard Baptist pastors rant against the Church, sad to say, as well as others. I hope this kind of thing is lessening in our day, but it does exist. I have heard Catholic priests defend Catholic teaching and say that Catholics have no need to seek for truth outside the Church, but that’s as far as any have gone, in my experience. It may be that where there is a larger population of Catholics there is a greater friction/tension in some non-Catholic churches against Catholics. Who knows? But it shouldn’t happen no matter what the cause, I’m sure you agree.

At the end of the day we are all Christians, we all worship the same God, we are alll the same but with different methods of practice. The same can go with muslims and to a certain extent jews but nobody desserves t be shonned treat others how you would want to be treated is whaat i believe most of all

 

[shauny77890]

I agree completely, Brandall. I too am a convert to the Catholic faith. I can appreciate how your bishop felt about his former church affiliation, both with the feelings of anger and regret. He (and I) probably left our respective non-Catholic communities at a time when they were quite anti-Catholic. A lot of ecumenical progress has been made due to good people of faith wanting to bring Christians of all kinds together since then. But back 30 years ago, there was a lot of misunderstanding and animosity in some non-Catholic groups. There still are those that want to keep that kind of animosity going, but they are not in the majority on the Evangelical side, thanks be.

I learned much from my former ecclesial associations that I treasure and still draw upon. I was in one of them for about 20 years that was quite anti-Catholic when I got involved (through my mother–I was a young teen with no choice in the matter). When I left (to return to the church of my childhood) the Jack Chick kind of animosity had been replaced by a more nuanced dislike. In the years since they have become more open to the Catholic Church due to the charismatic movement within it.

As C. S. Lewis pointed out people of deep faith from different faith communities are closer to one another than the lukewarm from any and all faith communities in their devotion and love for God and each other. I have found that to be true, as well.

Im a convert too aha I started C of E because my family fell out with the Catholic church after the priest refused to bury my great grandma. because she couldn’t attend mass due to the fact she was bedbound. but that assside i grew up with the C of E and didnt propperly believe in God and i often used God as an excuse to do bad things often “Its ok God will forgive me” Popped up. Turning about 11 i had a dream and it was a blue flame that reached out to me. I believe this to be God communicating with me and then i asked my mum to take me to the catholic church. I have been attending for 5 years and have recieved confirmation and communion in a catholic church and i am now an alter server and have done that for 4 years Self found faith is the best faith which is why i dont kinda agree with forcing religion down peoples necks. The way i see t is if God wanted you to believe in him he would of done so like he has with me. God has a plan for everybody so nobody should be put down or forced to be who they are not

God bless

 

[getysbg]

Jon_Donnis:

That is pretty cold, Seamus.

I am a gay psychic medium whose family is Evangelical Southern Baptist and RC.

How do you think I feel when I am shunned?

No one invites me to Mass…ever…

I get snapped back at, called a “fag”, etc.

A little kindness goes a long way.

Think about it.

Jon Donnis

ANYTIME that you are in the Gettysburg area, you are invited to attend mass at our parish. The church is right in the middle of town and was a hospital while the battle was being fought around it. If walls could talk…

 

[bioethics1985]

Be gracious. Attend both mass and other services if needed. All Christians are our brothers and sisters in faith. We will worship for all eternity with other believers, so it is good preparation if nothing else.

 

[Edward_H]

Here’s a suggestion: Become a very good conversationalist of “middle ground topics”. Truth, beauty, and goodness.

This article below nailed the problem description (shrinking our circle of friends and relatives we talk with, and having only shallow conversations").

It’s a short article, with lots of practical points and topics:

wdmr.org/sanctifying-our-conversations-with-other-minded-people/