Evangelical...trying to bring us all to the light?

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aidanbradypop

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This could completely be an isolated matter so that is why I am bringing it hear for a thread to discuss and explore more.

I know two wonderful individuals that were once Lutherans (LCMC) and then converted to Evangelical Protestant. They belong to one of those mega church types and believe that everyone outside of their faith is damned to hell. They believe it to be a mission from Christ to convert us all to the light of salvation through their faith. It has created a great divide in our friendship as well as their relationships with others. They basically did away with all their small group studies and started attending only Evangelical ones. They have become very condescending to any view opposite of their faith and quiet judgmental.

Has anyone else gone through this or are they any Evangelicals out there in CAF world to clarify if this is an isolated matter or a norm among Evangelicalism?
 
aidanbradypop said:
This could completely be an isolated matter so that is why I am bringing it hear for a thread to discuss and explore more.

I know two wonderful individuals that were once Lutherans (LCMC) and then converted to Evangelical Protestant. They belong to one of those mega church types and believe that everyone outside of their faith is damned to hell. They believe it to be a mission from Christ to convert us all to the light of salvation through their faith. It has created a great divide in our friendship as well as their relationships with others. They basically did away with all their small group studies and started attending only Evangelical ones. They have become very condescending to any view opposite of their faith and quiet judgmental.

Has anyone else gone through this or are they any Evangelicals out there in CAF world to clarify if this is an isolated matter or a norm among Evangelicalism?
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I wish I could say it was isolated, but it isn’t.

They’re new, so they’re fired up. Depending on what church they ended up in, they’ll either settle down eventually and turn back into “normal” people or else they’ll double down on it and make themselves and everyone else around them miserable.

Do you happen to know what church they’ve started going to?
 
BeProfOSX said:
I wish I could say it was isolated, but it isn’t.

They’re new, so they’re fired up. Depending on what church they ended up in, they’ll either settle down eventually and turn back into “normal” people or else they’ll double down on it and make themselves and everyone else around them miserable.

Do you happen to know what church they’ve started going to?
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They are members of a place called Ignite. I spoke with the minister. They were formally called Baptist General Conference but later changed the name to draw more of a crowd. He stated the are Evangelical. They baptized the two again since the infant baptism was not valid.
 
Haven’t quite had that problem since most people around me are at least baptized as Catholics (if not regular church-goers).

I can see how a congregation like this can attract a certain kind of person who feels like they “aren’t being fed”, or are more attracted to the “flash” and “pizazz” of that kind of service… but that certainly doesn’t mean they have 100% of the truth.

Look at it this way; take the band “KISS” and the composer “Bach”. One puts on a pretty wild show, the other has some of the best music ever written. One is fluff, and the other is substance. These guys got sucked in by the enthusiasm. I would rather have “steady” and “solid”, myself. Let’s see if they’re (their church) still around in 2,000 years.
 
aidanbradypop said:
They are members of a place called Ignite. I spoke with the minister. They were formally called Baptist General Conference but later changed the name to draw more of a crowd. He stated the are Evangelical. They baptized the two again since the infant baptism was not valid.
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I’m not familiar with them but I took a quick look at their statement of faith and yeah… they’ll probably settle down… eventually. They seem to strike the right tone on these issues (from my evangelical perspective): There are really important non-negotiables of the Christian faith and we’ll defend those to the last man, but everything else is up to you to try to work out for yourself in the context of a loving church community as best you can.

The thing to do, in your case, is to show them two things: One, that you know who the real, biblical Jesus is and two, you love Him and you are doing your dead level best to serve Him. Even if they and you can’t agree on anything else, as long as you can agree on those two points, then everything else is just details (at least from our perspective.)

Let things like Baptism and the Sacraments roll of your back for a while. Don’t compromise what you believe, but don’t expect them to compromise what they believe, either. Just show them the love of Christ as best you’re able and then let them see that, at the very least, you’re a Christian too. Eventually, with a little bit of pastoral support on their side, they’ll come around and see that maybe… just maybe… Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, and (gasp!) even Catholics are welcome in heaven just like good, bible-believing Baptists are.
 
OSX is right. They’ll probably settle down eventually, once the initial euphoria of the “newness” wears off… Stay their friend (true friends don’t bail unless for a VERY good reason), and stay true to the Faith. :cool:
 
BeProfOSX said:
I’m not familiar with them but I took a quick look at their statement of faith and yeah… they’ll probably settle down… eventually. They seem to strike the right tone on these issues (from my evangelical perspective): There are really important non-negotiables of the Christian faith and we’ll defend those to the last man, but everything else is up to you to try to work out for yourself in the context of a loving church community as best you can.

The thing to do, in your case, is to show them two things: One, that you know who the real, biblical Jesus is and two, you love Him and you are doing your dead level best to serve Him. Even if they and you can’t agree on anything else, as long as you can agree on those two points, then everything else is just details (at least from our perspective.)

Let things like Baptism and the Sacraments roll of your back for a while. Don’t compromise what you believe, but don’t expect them to compromise what they believe, either. Just show them the love of Christ as best you’re able and then let them see that, at the very least, you’re a Christian too. Eventually, with a little bit of pastoral support on their side, they’ll come around and see that maybe… just maybe… Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, and (gasp!) even Catholics are welcome in heaven just like good, bible-believing Baptists are.
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I take no issue with someone seeking out God and going on a journey to find him. That is how I ended up in the Catholic Church. I do take issue with someone when they become so anti Catholic that not even their Lutheran friends want to be around them. lol

They are very much into Chan, Piper, Platt and many other New Calvinist. They are also into spreading the Gospel, which I have no problem with that, but it tends to be more of “you are going to burn in hell if you do not walk to the light (Evangelicalism)” and I am not a fan of that tactic. We remain their friends, however, they are the ones that pushed away because we did not share in their newfound faith.
rfournier103 said:
OSX is right. They’ll probably settle down eventually, once the initial euphoria of the “newness” wears off… Stay their friend (true friends don’t bail unless for a VERY good reason), and stay true to the Faith. :cool:
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I believe staying true to my faith is what created such a divide. 😉
 
I had this from Evangelicals I knew online only when I converted to the Catholic Church. Some do not consider Catholic’s to be Christian. I felt a bit upset myself when I faced this, but ultimately if they believe that we are not “saved”, they mean well by trying to bring us all to the light.

I guess try and develop the virtue of patience and if they are ever interested in understanding Catholic doctrine you can direct them to some resources. Be the best Christian you can be and pray for them.
 
Over the years I lived in the Bible Belt I had this happen several times. However, I do believe that they are following their faith in the same way we do it’s just that we disagree with what each other are saying. They are regularly told by their pastors to evangelize their Catholic friends, family and neighbors as we are not saved and headed straight to hell. While I agree some may settle down after a while, I also believe that if they remain with this faith it only gets worse and at some point in time they will severe all ties with those who don’t follow their path. Unfortunately, socializing with the unsaved is something they will not continue to do forever because the Bible tells them to correct us and if we don’t change take others with them to try again and if we still don’t change leave us behind. This is difficult for me because I want to have friends who love and serve God even if they are not Catholic but I don’t expect to be in conflict because our ways of believing and serving differ.
 
aidanbradypop said:
They are very much into Chan, Piper, Platt and many other New Calvinist.
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I can’t speak for the other ones but I can say with a little authority (Francis Chan was ordained by and remains under the discipline of my particular denomination), that Francis Chain is about as far from anti-catholic as you’ll get in evangelicalism.

He’s about where most of us in evangelicalism are with regards to the catholic church: We see you as having the truth of the gospel but as also having a lot of other stuff that we don’t agree with added to that. We don’t think that being Catholic automatically make you a Christian, and I do note that many Catholics seem to take exception to that, but neither do we believe that being Baptist, or for that matter, a member of the Christian & Missionary Alliance automatically makes you a Christian. What makes you a Christian is what you believe in you’re heart and we can’t see that.

That’s what I mean by “show them the love of Christ.” Show them what’s in your heart and eventually, they’ll come around to see that you love and serve the same God that they do. As long as they see you as a hell-bound reprobate (or as long as you see them that way, if you do), you’re never going to get anywhere. Only once this becomes an “in-house” discussion between brothers and sisters in Christ will they drop their guard and open up to you. Anything you say to them now about the Church or the Sacraments or anything else even remotely Catholic in nature will sound like… well… Popery to them. You need to focus on the things you share in common before you can move on to the things you don’t.

Just my two cents.
 
BeProfOSX said:
I can’t speak for the other ones but I can say with a little authority (Francis Chan was ordained by and remains under the discipline of my particular denomination), that Francis Chain is about as far from anti-catholic as you’ll get in evangelicalism.

He’s about where most of us in evangelicalism are with regards to the catholic church: We see you as having the truth of the gospel but as also having a lot of other stuff that we don’t agree with added to that. We don’t think that being Catholic automatically make you a Christian, and I do note that many Catholics seem to take exception to that, but neither do we believe that being Baptist, or for that matter, a member of the Christian & Missionary Alliance automatically makes you a Christian. What makes you a Christian is what you believe in you’re heart and we can’t see that.

That’s what I mean by “show them the love of Christ.” Show them what’s in your heart and eventually, they’ll come around to see that you love and serve the same God that they do. As long as they see you as a hell-bound reprobate (or as long as you see them that way, if you do), you’re never going to get anywhere. Only once this becomes an “in-house” discussion between brothers and sisters in Christ will they drop their guard and open up to you. Anything you say to them now about the Church or the Sacraments or anything else even remotely Catholic in nature will sound like… well… Popery to them. You need to focus on the things you share in common before you can move on to the things you don’t.

Just my two cents.
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Chan is a great guy and in love with God but also very much of the Reformed Theology. He attend a Calvinist college and seminary.
 
aidanbradypop said:
Chan is a great guy and in love with God but also very much of the Reformed Theology. He attend a Calvinist college and seminary.
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Well… I’m Reformed too, but I’m a long way from John “BURN 'EM!” Calvin, if you know what I mean.
 
aidanbradypop said:
This could completely be an isolated matter so that is why I am bringing it hear for a thread to discuss and explore more.

I know two wonderful individuals that were once Lutherans (LCMC) and then converted to Evangelical Protestant. They belong to one of those mega church types and believe that everyone outside of their faith is damned to hell. They believe it to be a mission from Christ to convert us all to the light of salvation through their faith. It has created a great divide in our friendship as well as their relationships with others. They basically did away with all their small group studies and started attending only Evangelical ones. They have become very condescending to any view opposite of their faith and quiet judgmental.

Has anyone else gone through this or are they any Evangelicals out there in CAF world to clarify if this is an isolated matter or a norm among Evangelicalism?
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:eek: Whoa! We’re all damned?! I guess that’s why they chose the name “Ignite!” 😛

On a serious note, I’m a bit surprised that LCMC members would fall prey to a mega church with a message like that. Almost the entire LCMC is comprised of traditional, formerly-ELCA churches who left when that communion started drifting into mainstream protestantism. From what I have seen/known of LCMC churches, they tend to do a fairly good job of catechizing their own. Very unusual that they would convert to something so… extreme. :confused:
 
aidanbradypop said:
I hear ya. They call it 4point Calvinism I believe
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Well this may be a better topic for another post, but there’s a difference between the New Calvinists and “4-point” Calvinism.

As a refresher, the Five Points of Calvinism are:

Total Inability - Man, because of Original Sin, is utterly incapable of wanting to love God.

Unconditional Election - God, by his own decree and according to His own good purposes, chooses whom to save.

Limited Atonement - God provides for the salvation of the Elect, and the Elect only, by Christ’s death on the Cross.

Irresistible Grace - God, having decreed and provided for the salvation of the Elect, works supernaturally by the power of His Holy Spirit to effectually call the Elect to faith.

Perseverance of the Saints - God continues to call the Elect to faith in Him after their conversion in such a way that not one of them will fall from His grace.

The point that usually gets chucked by the “4-pointers” is the notion of Unconditional Election. Usually what you hear is a notion of “Predestination by Foreknowledge.” That is, that God knows who would choose him, if they could, and thus chooses to elect those that would have responded, if they could have, to salvation. Us “real” Calvinists have a term for that view: Arminianism.

You also sometimes hear some complaining about the Limited Atonement, but that’s usually a distinction without a difference. Christians of all stripes believe that Christ’s death on the cross was sufficient to expiate the sins of the whole world but that it is only efficient for the Elect (regardless of how you define that term.) The only people who really disagree with that notion are Universalists and they ain’t any kind of Calvinist no matter how you slice 'em.

What separates the New Calvinists from the “old” Calvinists is that, while we hold to a Reformed view of Soteriology, we generally reject pretty much everything else Calvin believed and taught, especially his Ecclesiology. We’re Calvinists, sure, but we’re by no means Presbyterians. There’s also a decided emphasis on sanctification that is largely absent from more traditional Calvinist thought. We’re Holiness Calvinists, for lack of a better term. Maybe a good comparison would be to the Calvinist Methodists (and yes there was such a thing, once upon a time.)
 
aidanbradypop said:
This could completely be an isolated matter so that is why I am bringing it hear for a thread to discuss and explore more.

I know two wonderful individuals that were once Lutherans (LCMC) and then converted to Evangelical Protestant. They belong to one of those mega church types and believe that everyone outside of their faith is damned to hell. They believe it to be a mission from Christ to convert us all to the light of salvation through their faith. It has created a great divide in our friendship as well as their relationships with others. They basically did away with all their small group studies and started attending only Evangelical ones. They have become very condescending to any view opposite of their faith and quiet judgmental.

Has anyone else gone through this or are they any Evangelicals out there in CAF world to clarify if this is an isolated matter or a norm among Evangelicalism?
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hello, you really would need to go to the christian forum – to get additional info on this–

as everyone is a reflection of the teaching they have been “baptised” into

and most are bible savy after they memorize 5 different verses-- Johova wittnesses is an example of this
 
My son went through this major evangelical. born again, and you are in the wrong religion mom about ten years ago.

Between St. Monica, BVM, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost, and all the Angels and Saints he didn’t have a chance.

He is now a very wonderful, caring Catholic son, husband and father.

He said “Mom, I think I just lost my mind for awhile.” It did put quite a strain on our relationship with his trying to convert me, but prayer works.
 
CarolNoel said:
My son went through this major evangelical. born again, and you are in the wrong religion mom about ten years ago.

Between St. Monica, BVM, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost, and all the Angels and Saints he didn’t have a chance.

He is now a very wonderful, caring Catholic son, husband and father.

He said “Mom, I think I just lost my mind for awhile.” It did put quite a strain on our relationship with his trying to convert me, but prayer works.
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Makes me smile
 
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