Evangelical

[dronald]

Eastern Orthodox formly broke from the Catholic Church in 1054,for a thosand years they were a part of the Catholic Church.So they would state anything that sounds Un-Catholic about there origins.But to answer your question no body said anything about a lay person not able to interpret the Bible in “line” of the Catholic faith ,but that being said the Bible itself states in several areas that not everyone was called to be Apostles ,or teachers.Also in response to an earier post on the "One Body"it’s true the Catholic teaches that all baptised Christians who are not Catholic belong imperfectly to the one body .But we reject the notion of "All Christian Churchs together "make up the “True Church”. The Bible itself doesn’t support The Protestant understanding of what makes up the True Church.St Pauls words in many areas support the Catholic understanding on what the True Church is.Bottom line though with all this being said is this,people are going to believe what they want no matter how much truth is being said or pointed out.The Truth of the matter is this Protestant church('s) have little in common (if )anything with historical Christianity ,today’s Protestant church’s don’t even resemble or have little in common with historical Protestant church('s)!

The Orthodox believe that when the Schism happened, they were in the right. Therefore the Orthodox say that they are the “One True Holy Apostolic Catholic Church.” and you’re part of the imperfect body. Do you see?

And all this comes down to men claiming to be the right successors to the right people, and yet Paul condemns this as I’ve posted. That’s why as an Evangelical, picking an Apostolic Church has become an impossibility. I believe I’ve been baptized in Christ, and do not need someone to claim that they are “followers of Cephas” therefore correct.

Also, I don’t interpret the Bible privately. I research language, context, etc. I get varying opinions from Catholics and non-Catholics. As you have stated though, I am allowed to interpret privately to teach another just like Phillip did. I just need to be careful that my interpretation is true.

 

[SteveVH]

If you disagree, take it up with Scripture, not me. Anyway, I was under the impression that the spiritual gift of prophecy and other revelatory gifts were still affirmed by the Catholic Church. Perhaps I was misinformed?

No, you are not misinformed. We believe that no further public revelation will be given as God has said all that he has to say in Jesus. But we certainly believe in the spiritual gifts of prophecy and other revelatory gifts on a personal basis. This happens every Friday evening at my Church with our charismatic meeting led by our parish Priest who is the head of the Charismatic Renewal in our diocese. We also have many saints who have given the Church private revelations. We are not obligated to believe any of them, even those approved by Rome.

 

[Bryan_Greenlee]

O

The Orthodox believe that when the Schism happened, they were in the right. Therefore the Orthodox say that they are the “One True Holy Apostolic Catholic Church.” and you’re part of the imperfect body. Do you see?

And all this comes down to men claiming to be the right successors to the right people, and yet Paul condemns this as I’ve posted. That’s why as an Evangelical, picking an Apostolic Church has become an impossibility. I believe I’ve been baptized in Christ, and do not need someone to claim that they are “followers of Cephas” therefore correct.

Also, I don’t interpret the Bible privately. I research language, context, etc. I get varying opinions from Catholics and non-Catholics. As you have stated though, I am allowed to interpret privately to teach another just like Phillip did. I just need to be careful that my interpretation is true.

I’m aware of the Orthodox “claims,but they are mistaken .First how can they truly be one as Our Lord commanded when there are several Orthodox Churchs.Second ,they where subject the Pope from the very beginning and even admitted his preeminence in the Church .And the Orthodox have changed certain doctrines ,which is a sign of they cannot be the"One True Church”.And I know of several highly knowledgeable Orthodox who have converted to the Catholic Church after studing the historical facts on the subject .One has even appeared on EWTN on several occassions to state the facts of the matter.One last note ,Blessed Pope John Paul II has rightly stated the Eastern Orthodox are the non breathing lung of the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church.And this. . very statement couldn’t rightly apply to the Eastern Orthodox Church(s) for one simple reason the very world “Catholic” means to be everywhere and to contain all of what Christ reveiled to his Apostles.The Eastern Orthodox Church(s) are not everywhere and lack the unity that Christ Our Lord willed when he said (we all should be one)which the One in One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church means.

 

[Bryan_Greenlee]

No, you are not misinformed. We believe that no further public revelation will be given as God has said all that he has to say in Jesus. But we certainly believe in the spiritual gifts of prophecy and other revelatory gifts on a personal basis. This happens every Friday evening at my Church with our charismatic meeting led by our parish Priest who is the head of the Charismatic Renewal in our diocese. We also have many saints who have given the Church private revelations. We are not obligated to believe any of them, even those approved by Rome.

The type of prochecy I was refering to is pubic revelation ,which most Protestant agree was closed with the death of the last Apostle.But there are some outside the Catholic Church who believe "private revelation should be taught as official divinely reveiled revelation which is heresy.

 

[Bryan_Greenlee]

T

O

I’m aware of the Orthodox “claims,but they are mistaken objective history does not support their claims .First how can they truly be one as Our Lord commanded when there are several Orthodox Churchs.Second ,they where subject the Pope from the very beginning and even acknowledge his preeminence in the Church .And the Orthodox have changed certain doctrines and has fallen into heresy several times through out history ,which is a sign of they cannot be the"One True Church”.And I know of several highly knowledgeable Orthodox who have converted to the Catholic Church after studing the historical facts on the subject .One has even appeared on EWTN on several occassions to state the facts of the matter.One last note ,Blessed Pope John Paul II has rightly stated the Eastern Orthodox are the non breathing lung of the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church.And this. . very statement couldn’t rightly apply to the Eastern Orthodox Church(s) for one simple reason the very world “Catholic” means to be everywhere and to contain all of what Christ reveiled to his Apostles.The Eastern Orthodox Church(s) are not everywhere and lack the unity that Christ Our Lord willed when he said (we all should be one)which the One in One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church means.

This is what I meant to post orignally post .

 

[RyanBlack]

O

I’m aware of the Orthodox “claims,but they are mistaken .First how can they truly be one as Our Lord commanded when there are several Orthodox Churchs.Second ,they where subject the Pope from the very beginning and even admitted his preeminence in the Church .And the Orthodox have changed certain doctrines ,which is a sign of they cannot be the"One True Church”.And I know of several highly knowledgeable Orthodox who have converted to the Catholic Church after studing the historical facts on the subject .One has even appeared on EWTN on several occassions to state the facts of the matter.One last note ,Blessed Pope John Paul II has rightly stated the Eastern Orthodox are the non breathing lung of the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church.And this. . very statement couldn’t rightly apply to the Eastern Orthodox Church(s) for one simple reason the very world “Catholic” means to be everywhere and to contain all of what Christ reveiled to his Apostles.The Eastern Orthodox Church(s) are not everywhere and lack the unity that Christ Our Lord willed when he said (we all should be one)which the One in One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church means.

Are you aware that there are also several Catholic Churches? In fact, the Catholic Church is a communion of 23 churches, just as the Orthodox Church is a communion of several churches. The Orthodox are a communion of churches that are united in faith.

As to the Orthodox having changed several doctrines, would you please be more specific? I would add that the Orthodox often make this same charge against Catholics.

Finally, while the Catholic Church certainly has greater numbers, that proves nothing. The Eastern Orthodox can be found throughout the world as well.

 

[dronald]

O

I’m aware of the Orthodox “claims,but they are mistaken .First how can they truly be one as Our Lord commanded when there are several Orthodox Churchs.Second ,they where subject the Pope from the very beginning and even admitted his preeminence in the Church .And the Orthodox have changed certain doctrines ,which is a sign of they cannot be the"One True Church”.And I know of several highly knowledgeable Orthodox who have converted to the Catholic Church after studing the historical facts on the subject .One has even appeared on EWTN on several occassions to state the facts of the matter.One last note ,Blessed Pope John Paul II has rightly stated the Eastern Orthodox are the non breathing lung of the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church.And this. . very statement couldn’t rightly apply to the Eastern Orthodox Church(s) for one simple reason the very world “Catholic” means to be everywhere and to contain all of what Christ reveiled to his Apostles.The Eastern Orthodox Church(s) are not everywhere and lack the unity that Christ Our Lord willed when he said (we all should be one)which the One in One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church means.

It’s much more complicated than that my friend. If what you’re saying is so simple then the conflict would be resolved by now; but it’s not. Why? Because the Pope at the time in Rome has his successors while the Orthodox have their Patriarch successors and it has caused both to go against Paul’s saying “I follow Cephas or I follow Paul.” We need to accept that we all follow Christ and are all part of His body. Anything you say about the Orthodox they can say right back at you.

As for your other point about the CC being everywhere. Well it turns out the Orthodox are where Christians are being persecuted the most and that’s the Middle East. They lost many of their Patriarch’s with the expansion of Islam a thousand years ago. We also have Evangelicals recently being imprisoned for preaching Christianity in Pakistan and Iran, and yet you say they lack fullness of truth.

If I go to Pakistan and die a martyr for Christ preaching His name, do I still lack the fullness of truth? I don’t see it.

 

[Guilou67]

The Orthodox believe that when the Schism happened, they were in the right. Therefore the Orthodox say that they are the “One True Holy Apostolic Catholic Church.” and you’re part of the imperfect body. Do you see?

And all this comes down to men claiming to be the right successors to the right people, and yet Paul condemns this as I’ve posted. That’s why as an Evangelical, picking an Apostolic Church has become an impossibility. I believe I’ve been baptized in Christ, and do not need someone to claim that they are “followers of Cephas” therefore correct.

Also, I don’t interpret the Bible privately. I research language, context, etc. I get varying opinions from Catholics and non-Catholics. As you have stated though, I am allowed to interpret privately to teach another just like Phillip did. I just need to be careful that my interpretation is true.

How would you know that your interpretation is true without a teaching authority?

 

[Bryan_Greenlee]

T

It’s much more complicated than that my friend. If what you’re saying is so simple then the conflict would be resolved by now; but it’s not. Why? Because the Pope at the time in Rome has his successors while the Orthodox have their Patriarch successors and it has caused both to go against Paul’s saying “I follow Cephas or I follow Paul.” We need to accept that we all follow Christ and are all part of His body. Anything you say about the Orthodox they can say right back at you.

As for your other point about the CC being everywhere. Well it turns out the Orthodox are where Christians are being persecuted the most and that’s the Middle East. They lost many of their Patriarch’s with the expansion of Islam a thousand years ago. We also have Evangelicals recently being imprisoned for preaching Christianity in Pakistan and Iran, and yet you say they lack fullness of truth.

If I go to Pakistan and die a martyr for Christ preaching His name, do I still lack the fullness of truth? I don’t see it.

Not only do I disagree with you on several points ,but you completely wrong on the Pope going agaist St.Paul’s teachings.Once again Rome always enjoy preeminece in the early church.This is historic fact ,and not just Catholic opinion ,all honest historians Catholic ,Orthodox ,and Protestant alike who are interested in objective history will not denign that .This is a subject that I have studied for many years ,and have many ,many books on the subject both Catholic and non Catholic alike.I’m a lover of early Church history and make. a must to study it to the fullness.It’s a lot more simple than one may think.And I believe like any orthodox Catholic that the fullness of the Christian faith only subsists in the Catholic Church,and that in no way says I don’t believe other Christians outside the. Catholic Church as no truth .All it says is that non Catholic Christians do not have the full truth.

 

[Guilou67]

Are you aware that there are also several Catholic Churches? In fact, the Catholic Church is a communion of 23 churches, just as the Orthodox Church is a communion of several churches. The Orthodox are a communion of churches that are united in faith.

As to the Orthodox having changed several doctrines, would you please be more specific? I would add that the Orthodox often make this same charge against Catholics.

Finally, while the Catholic Church certainly has greater numbers, that proves nothing. The Eastern Orthodox can be found throughout the world as well.

I never knew the “Roman Catholic Church” was a communion of 23 Churches. Can you give me some links or the Church teaching on that. That will be very interesting.

 

[Guilou67]

Are you aware that there are also several Catholic Churches? In fact, the Catholic Church is a communion of 23 churches, just as the Orthodox Church is a communion of several churches. The Orthodox are a communion of churches that are united in faith.

As to the Orthodox having changed several doctrines, would you please be more specific? I would add that the Orthodox often make this same charge against Catholics.

Finally, while the Catholic Church certainly has greater numbers, that proves nothing. The Eastern Orthodox can be found throughout the world as well.

I do not have one in my country.

 

[Bryan_Greenlee]

You can google it ,and find many different sources on this subject.I hope this helps.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

I never knew the “Roman Catholic Church” was a communion of 23 Churches. Can you give me some links or the Church teaching on that. That will be very interesting.

This should help you out.

ewtn.com/expert/answers/catholic_rites_and_churches.htm

 

[Guilou67]

This should help you out.

ewtn.com/expert/answers/catholic_rites_and_churches.htm

You are confusing “RITES AND CHURCHES”. Is there any explanation why you are doing this. Some rites sing the whole liturgy. The Roman Catholic Church sing and speak during a liturgical worship.

 

[Bryan_Greenlee]

Are you aware that there are also several Catholic Churches? In fact, the Catholic Church is a communion of 23 churches, just as the Orthodox Church is a communion of several churches. The Orthodox are a communion of churches that are united in faith.

As to the Orthodox having changed several doctrines, would you please be more specific? I would add that the Orthodox often make this same charge against Catholics.

Finally, while the Catholic Church certainly has greater numbers, that proves nothing. The Eastern Orthodox can be found throughout the world as well.

I’m aware of the different rites in the one Catholic Church,as a matter of fact I have and have read many different books and sources on the subject.And all Eastern Churchs that are Catholic are in union with the Church of Rome.Eastern Orthodox Churchs may be united in faith ,but are not united in goverence or even united under one leader.The Catholic Church may have changed disciplines and customs from time to time,but never doctrines which a lot of people get confused.The Eastern Orthodox Church for an example dropped the teaching on contraception in 1969 that’s just one example among a few more.To answer your point on the Eastern Orthodox make the same change against Catholics does nothing either,because they can’t prove it.While once again objective history proves we haven’t changed doctrine.We have elaborated on the same orthodox doctrines (dogmas)which the Eastern Orthodox reject dogmas,but we have never completely changed doctrines.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

You are confusing “RITES AND CHURCHES”. Is there any explanation why you are doing this. Some rites sing the whole liturgy. The Roman Catholic Church sing and speak during a liturgical worship.

Uhhh…did you not read the whole thing? It talks about both. The title of it is CATHOLIC RITES AND CHURCHES. :shrug:You said you didn’t know about the Eastern Churches that are in communion with Rome. Well, that talks about them. Oh well, a simple thanks would have sufficed. I didn’t post something for an argument.

 

[Guilou67]

Uhhh…did you not read the whole thing? It talks about both. The title of it is CATHOLIC RITES AND CHURCHES. :shrug:You said you didn’t know about the Eastern Churches that are in communion with Rome. Well, that talks about them. Oh well, a simple thanks would have sufficed. I didn’t post something for an argument.

Where did I say that I didn’t know about the Eastern Churches that are in communion with Rome.Most sunday I meet some people from the Greek Orthodox at my Church so I know a little bit about them.

 

[Guilou67]

Uhhh…did you not read the whole thing? It talks about both. The title of it is CATHOLIC RITES AND CHURCHES. :shrug:You said you didn’t know about the Eastern Churches that are in communion with Rome. Well, that talks about them. Oh well, a simple thanks would have sufficed. I didn’t post something for an argument.

don’t you say at Mass: "MAY THE LORD ACCEPT THE SACRIFICE AT YOUR HAND…FOR OUR GOOD AND THE GOOD OF ALL HIS HOLY CHURCHES. doesn’t that mean all the Catholic Churches around the world.

 

[RyanBlack]

**

Where did I say that I didn’t know about the Eastern Churches that are in communion with Rome.Most sunday I meet some people from the Greek Orthodox at my Church so I know a little bit about them.

They are churches that are in communion with Rome–not rites. There are 22 of them that are in communion with the Roman Church. All of them together are a communion of 23 churches that make up the one Catholic Church.

 

[RyanBlack]

I’m aware of the different rites in the one Catholic Church,as a matter of fact I have and have read many different books and sources on the subject.And all Eastern Churchs that are Catholic are in union with the Church of Rome.Eastern Orthodox Churchs may be united in faith ,but are not united in goverence or even united under one leader.The Catholic Church may have changed disciplines and customs from time to time,but never doctrines which a lot of people get confused.The Eastern Orthodox Church for an example dropped the teaching on contraception in 1969 that’s just one example among a few more.To answer your point on the Eastern Orthodox make the same change against Catholics does nothing either,because they can’t prove it.While once again objective history proves we haven’t changed doctrine.We have elaborated on the same orthodox doctrines (dogmas)which the Eastern Orthodox reject dogmas,but we have never completely changed doctrines.

Essentially, you are saying that the Orthodox are not one because they do not have the same sort of governance the Catholic Church has. This by no means proves that the Orthodox are not one. They have a unity in faith, and they have unity through eucharistic communion. As to your claim that the Orthodox have not proved that the Catholic Church has not changed teachings, of course they have not, since your assertion that Catholic teaching has never changed isn’t based on objective history, in spite of your claim. Rather, it is based on the Catholic teaching that Catholic teaching has never changed, much like the Orthodox faithful base their claims that the Orthodox Church has never changed its teachings based on the teachings of the Orthodox Church.