Evangelical

[Bryan_Greenlee]

Essentially, you are saying that the Orthodox are not one because they do not have the same sort of governance the Catholic Church has. This by no means proves that the Orthodox are not one. They have a unity in faith, and they have unity through eucharistic communion. As to your claim that the Orthodox have not proved that the Catholic Church has not changed teachings, of course they have not, since your assertion that Catholic teaching has never changed isn’t based on objective history, in spite of your claim. Rather, it is based on the Catholic teaching that Catholic teaching has never changed, much like the Orthodox faithful base their claims that the Orthodox Church has never changed its teachings based on the teachings of the Orthodox Church.

I’m not going to argue with you on this subject anymore ,I’m a student of history and theology have been for years.You continue to believe what you want.But I have many friends who are Eastern Orthodox are very knowledgeable about their faith and would totally disagree with your understanding of the Eastern Orthodox Churchs.And once again it is historical fact the Eastern Orthodox Churchs were once in union and part of the
Catholic Church and not the other way around.I don’t know where your getting your info but you are wrong about a number of facts.And I know a number of other early church histortians that would also disagree with you.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

I never knew the “Roman Catholic Church” was a communion of 23 Churches. Can you give me some links or the Church teaching on that. That will be very interesting.

Where did I say that I didn’t know about the Eastern Churches that are in communion with Rome.Most sunday I meet some people from the Greek Orthodox at my Church so I know a little bit about them.

Look bud, you said you didn’t know. I was just trying to help you out. I don’t think the Greek Orthodox Church is in communion with Rome.

 

[Bryan_Greenlee]

I

Look bud, you said you didn’t know. I was just trying to help you out. I don’t think the Greek Orthodox Church is in communion with Rome.

The Greek Orthodox Church is not in full communion with Rome.

 

[RyanBlack]

I’m not going to argue with you on this subject anymore ,I’m a student of history and theology have been for years.You continue to believe what you want.But I have many friends who are Eastern Orthodox are very knowledgeable about their faith and would totally disagree with your understanding of the Eastern Orthodox Churchs.And once again it is historical fact the Eastern Orthodox Churchs were once in union and part of the
Catholic Church and not the other way around.I don’t know where your getting your info but you are wrong about a number of facts.And I know a number of other early church histortians that would also disagree with you.

I’ve got credentials too. As to where I’m getting my info, I have more than five years of graduate theological study, including both the MDiv and the ThM degrees, and from my perspective, you’re the one who’s wrong on the facts.

 

[Doxiemom]

Why would you not expect them to believe in the virgin birth?

They absolutely would because that first was a prophecy and then it had to be fulfilled.

Where catholics may differ is whether she remained a virgin or not.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Looks like I learned something. All my life I thought one of the primary distinctions between Catholicism and Protestantism was disagreement over virgin birth.

Evangelicals usually believe that Mary was a virgin when Jesus was born but they also usually reject the perpetual virginity of Mary. That is one of the doctrinal points of divergence between Catholics and Evangelicals.

 

[adf417]

Are you aware that there are also several Catholic Churches? In fact, the Catholic Church is a communion of 23 churches, just as the Orthodox Church is a communion of several churches. The Orthodox are a communion of churches that are united in faith.

I know this has been hashed out sense this post but I would like to summarize if I may…

While there are 23 churches/rites within the Catholic Church in communion with Rome the distinction should be made that all peoples from within these rites can and do receive communion from within any of its 23 rites defining “one communion”. People within the Orthodox faith cannot necessary experience this shared communion within their Orthodox faith defining “multiple communions”.

Peace!!!

 

[Bryan_Greenlee]

E

I have heard different ,and I’ve got several priest friends that say what I have said,and have seen it well documented in several other places.But in all fairness the point I was trying to say is the fact of the matter is the Eastern Orthodox Church('s) are the ones who are schismatic.I have much respect for the Eastern Orthodox and I love their liturgy which is very beautiful and truly orthodox and they do have true Apostotic Succession .But all that does not change the historical fact they are in schis from the Catholic Church and not the other way around .

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

The topic please

 

[Bryan_Greenlee]

^^Ok

 

[RyanBlack]

E

I have heard different ,and I’ve got several priest friends that say what I have said,and have seen it well documented in several other places.But in all fairness the point I was trying to say is the fact of the matter is the Eastern Orthodox Church('s) are the ones who are schismatic.I have much respect for the Eastern Orthodox and I love their liturgy which is very beautiful and truly orthodox and they do have true Apostotic Succession .But all that does not change the historical fact they are in schis from the Catholic Church and not the other way around .

It is a violation of the rules of this forum to refer to the Eastern Orthodox as schismatics.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3142736#post3142736

And it really isn’t as simplistic as you wish to make it sound (history rarely is). As far as who is in schism from whom, it’s really a matter of one’s point of view. Eastern Orthodox insist that is the Catholic Church who is in schism from them, while the Oriental Orthodox consider themselves to be the true Church, as does the Assyrian Church of the East. Ultimately, arguing over this, and throwing polemical terms at each other is uncharitable, and certainly does nothing to help restore communion among the various Apostolic Churches, which is our Lord’s will.

 

[RyanBlack]

I know this has been hashed out sense this post but I would like to summarize if I may…

While there are 23 churches/rites within the Catholic Church in communion with Rome the distinction should be made that all peoples from within these rites can and do receive communion from within any of its 23 rites defining “one communion”. People within the Orthodox faith cannot necessary experience this shared communion within their Orthodox faith defining “multiple communions”.

Peace!!!

Please do not conflate churches and rites, because they are not interchangeable.

Furthermore, Orthodox Christians most certainly do have shared communion with other Orthodox. Russian Orthodox may receive at an Antiochian Orthodox parish. Antiochian Orthodox may receive at a Greek Orthodox parish. Greek Orthodox may receive in a parish of the Orthodox Church in America, and so on. Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox do not share communion, but they are entirely separate churches.

 

[adf417]

Please do not conflate churches and rites, because they are not interchangeable.

correct, my bad! I had a reason but I think it is lost.

Furthermore, Orthodox Christians most certainly do have shared communion with other Orthodox. Russian Orthodox may receive at an Antiochian Orthodox parish. Antiochian Orthodox may receive at a Greek Orthodox parish. Greek Orthodox may receive in a parish of the Orthodox Church in America, and so on.

agreed!

Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox do not share communion, but they are entirely separate churches

And how is this not the point that was made which is, as Eric has pointed out, off topic?

Peace!!!

 

[RyanBlack]

And how is this not the point that was made which is, as Eric has pointed out, off topic?

Peace!!!

Your point is entirely misplaced. It makes no sense to say “the Eastern Orthodox and the Oriental Orthodox don’t share communion, so this proves that the Orthodox Church is not one one.” Is it correct to say that the Catholic Church is not one because the Catholic Church, the Oriental Orthodox Church, and the Eastern Orthodox Church all call themselves “catholic”, but do not share communion with each other? Or better yet, would it make sense to say that the Catholic Church is not one because the Roman Catholic Church, the PNCC, and the Old Catholic Churches are not all in communion with each other? The Eastern Orthodox and the Oriental Orthodox are two entirely different churches, both of which happen to claim the name Orthodox. The Oriental Orthodox left communion with the Catholic Church following the Council of Chalcedon, in A.D. 451, while the Eastern Orthodox and Catholics remained in communion with each other for several more centuries. Of course, the Oriental Orthodox and the Eastern Orthodox are not one with each other, as the Catholic Church and the PNCC are not one with each other. However, the Oriental Orthodox are one, as the Catholic Church is one, as the Eastern Orthodox are one.

 

[adf417]

Your point is entirely misplaced. It makes no sense to say “the Eastern Orthodox and the Oriental Orthodox don’t share communion, so this proves that the Orthodox Church is not one one.” Is it correct to say that the Catholic Church is not one because the Catholic Church, the Oriental Orthodox Church, and the Eastern Orthodox Church all call themselves “catholic”, but do not share communion with each other? Or better yet, would it make sense to say that the Catholic Church is not one because the Roman Catholic Church, the PNCC, and the Old Catholic Churches are not all in communion with each other? The Eastern Orthodox and the Oriental Orthodox are two entirely different churches, both of which happen to claim the name Orthodox. The Oriental Orthodox left communion with the Catholic Church following the Council of Chalcedon, in A.D. 451, while the Eastern Orthodox and Catholics remained in communion with each other for several more centuries.

Ryan I’m certain you know much more on this subject than do I and I submit to that knowledge. All I am saying is that any Orthodox cannot necessarily receive communion in just any Orthodox church correct? As opposed to any Catholic can receive communion in any Catholic church as long as that church is in communion with Rome.

Am I still missing something?

 

[RyanBlack]

Ryan I’m certain you know much more on this subject than do I and I submit to that knowledge. All I am saying is that any Orthodox cannot necessarily receive communion in just any Orthodox church correct? As opposed to any Catholic can receive communion in any Catholic church as long as that church is in communion with Rome.

Am I still missing something?

An Oriental Orthodox would not receive in an Eastern Orthodox Church, and vice-versa, just as a Catholic in communion with Rome would not receive communion in a PNCC, or and Old Catholic Church. However, if you are Roman Catholic, you can receive communion in a Melkite Catholic Church, and vice-versa, since the Roman Catholic Church and the Melkite Catholic Church, though they are different particular churches, are in communion with each other. Likewise, if you are a member of the Coptic Catholic Church (Oriental Orthodox), you can receive in other Oriental Orthodox Churches that are not specifically Coptic (e.g., the Armenian Apostolic Church) , just as a member of the Greek Orthodox Church (Eastern Orthodox) can receive communion in other Eastern Orthodox Churches that are not specifically Greek (e.g., the Antiochian Orthodox Church).

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Thread off topic, closed