Evangelicals and the Church

[scylla]

This is a common anti-catholic tactic, and this affected my wife in much the same way it does you in your perception of the Catholic Church.
They identify actions of bad Catholics and somehow try to attest that that is Catholic belief. Which is like saying I know a Bible Christian and since he cheats on his wife the Bible must be invalid. This arguement unfortunately is repeated over and over again until a bias is built up against the Catholic Church by the people who hear this illogical position. I was affected by this in addition to my wife until I reasoned my way out of this bias.
This is when I realized the shakey ground all these arguements are based on and how dishonest people like Dave Hunt are who bring them forth.
(real Christians don’t have to lie to support their positions, which is why I feel sorry for Dave Hunt and his like)

Now Alfie, as you can see there are many evangelicals who in their love of Christ have come to the Catholic Church. They are still Christian and still are Christian, they do not in any way reject the name Christian, since now they also identify themselves as Catholic.
They just now are part of the “Catholic” (universal in greek) community which is the original Christian Church.
You don’t have to agree with us on this, go ahead and do the research before you reject those statements above. Most of us have studied our way into the Catholic Church.

I am sure you love Jesus Alfie and we invite you to keep asking questions as we are happy to answer them and share our love for Jesus with you.
(now can you show me in the Catechism where we should be Nazis?) See that is how dishonest those guys are who put forth those arguements.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[Alfie]

Eden:

That is not a very scholarly answer. You accuse Catholicism of being the impetus for the rise of Nazism and can’t supply the book and you reference vague magazine articles to discuss conversions. I am sure this kind of evidence is worthwhile for you but to me it’s just hearsay.

Don’t you think if you are going to use a book as a premise for a whole thread topic, you should at least remember what the book is?

http://bestsmileys.com/talking/1.gif

Surely if you are going to attack the Church, you can do better than this.

Go back and re-read my original post. In it I stated that the liberal Protestants and Catholics were instrumental in the rise of Nazism. As far as I am concerned the bulk of the blame should be placed on German Evangelicals for bailing out on their country.

On the other hand Protestants bailed out of Europe and founded the United States (the greatest country in the history of mankind). So what do I know?

 

[scylla]

Alfie:

Go back and re-read my original post. In it I stated that the liberal Protestants and Catholics were instrumental in the rise of Nazism. As far as I am concerned the bulk of the blame should be placed on German Evangelicals for bailing out on their country.

On the other hand Protestants bailed out of Europe and founded the United States (the greatest country in the history of mankind). So what do I know?

So were Catholics (if they were still Catholic) who were instrumental as you say in the rise of Nazism. Were they following Catholic teaching or killing people and doing evil while being Catholic and ignoring Catholic teaching?

In Christ
Scylla

 

[Alfie]

scylla:

This is a common anti-catholic tactic, and this affected my wife in much the same way it does you in your perception of the Catholic Church.
They identify actions of bad Catholics and somehow try to attest that that is Catholic belief. Which is like saying I know a Bible Christian and since he cheats on his wife the Bible must be invalid. This arguement unfortunately is repeated over and over again until a bias is built up against the Catholic Church by the people who hear this illogical position. I was affected by this in addition to my wife until I reasoned my way out of this bias.
This is when I realized the shakey ground all these arguements are based on and how dishonest people like Dave Hunt are who bring them forth.
(real Christians don’t have to lie to support their positions, which is why I feel sorry for Dave Hunt and his like)

Now Alfie, as you can see there are many evangelicals who in their love of Christ have come to the Catholic Church. They are still Christian and still are Christian, they do not in any way reject the name Christian, since now they also identify themselves as Catholic.
They just now are part of the “Catholic” (universal in greek) community which is the original Christian Church.
You don’t have to agree with us on this, go ahead and do the research before you reject those statements above. Most of us have studied our way into the Catholic Church.

I am sure you love Jesus Alfie and we invite you to keep asking questions as we are happy to answer them and share our love for Jesus with you.
(now can you show me in the Catechism where we should be Nazis?) See that is how dishonest those guys are who put forth those arguements.

God Bless
Scylla

I am an Evangelical. Do you believe that I am a true believer in Jesus Christ? Do you believe that if I follow the teachings written down in the Bible but do not have the fullness of the Catholic church that on the day that I die I will have eternal life. Please don’t tell me that no one knows who will be saved until the day they meet God. This is strictly a hypothetical question on my part.

 

[Alfie]

scylla:

So were Catholics (if they were still Catholic) who were instrumental as you say in the rise of Nazism. Were they following Catholic teaching or killing people and doing evil while being Catholic and ignoring Catholic teaching?

In Christ
Scylla

I would say that they were Catholic in name only. But that applies equally to the liberal Protestants.

 

[Eden]

Alfie:

Go back and re-read my original post. In it I stated that the liberal Protestants and Catholics were instrumental in the rise of Nazism. As far as I am concerned the bulk of the blame should be placed on German Evangelicals for bailing out on their country.

Yet you are unable to provide the name of the book or the author - a book that is central to your claim.

On the other hand Protestants bailed out of Europe and founded the United States (the greatest country in the history of mankind). So what do I know?

I agree with you… but I’m not sure the Native Americans who were here when the country started would necessarily agree. My ancestors who came to the Virginia and Maryland Colonies in the 1600s and 1700s were all Protestants, by the way. I am grateful for my Irish ancestors who came here in the mid-1800s. They converted their men to Catholicism and raised big Catholic families.

 

[carol_marie]

Alfie:

Were you an Evangelical Christian? If so when were you saved? What is your testimony?

Yes, I was an Evangelical Christian. I was born again about 14 years ago when I asked Jesus to forgive my sins and come into my heart. I had a very rich prayer life - attended Bible studies - taught Sunday School - led AWANA - worked with our our teen youth group and walked with the Lord everyday.

I was a leader at my Church’s Mother’s of Preschoolers Group and a Catholic woman was put in my group. It became my goal to help her come to know Christ. We became friends and I’d ask her questions… why do you believe this… why do you believe that. She’d tell me… and this is what began to freak me out… her answers made sense. She provided scriptural support & books about the Early Church that backed up what she believed.
She gave me books that explained the mass and after reading them, I started to attend.

I prayed & prayed & prayed some more for God’s direction. Because I am His child, I knew He would not lead me astray and no one could steal me out of His hand. God answered my prayers… He led me right to His Church. On Easter, last year I became Catholic.

Was I Christian before? Yes. Am I Christian still? Of course.
Only now I’m Catholic… which means at every mass I can receive my Savior, who I love so very much, in the Eucharist.

I say that’s a great reason to LOVE being Catholic.

Blessings,
CM

 

[sadie2723]

Alfie:

I am an Evangelical. Do you believe that I am a true believer in Jesus Christ? Do you believe that if I follow the teachings written down in the Bible but do not have the fullness of the Catholic church that on the day that I die I will have eternal life. Please don’t tell me that no one knows who will be saved until the day they meet God. This is strictly a hypothetical question on my part.

I do believe that you are a true believer in Jesus Christ.

I also believe that you can go to Heaven and not be Catholic.

Now, I will say this in response to your original post. People who leave other churches and become Catholic because they think that the Catholic Church is more liberal are really missing it. Bottom line is that the Catholic Church is one of, if not the, most conservative church out there. Lets look at the facts: 2000 years of being anti- abortion. 2000 years of being anti-birth control. 2000 years without a change in what we include in our Bible. Get the idea? Liberalism implies liberalizing of the church’s teaching. Where the heck is that happening?

Finally, the feminists that left the Methodist Church because we like Mary probably had one heck of a rude awakening when they found out that in the Catholic Church, women don’t have any right to choose to have an abortion…and they never will.

Cheers!

 

[Eden]

sadie2723:

Finally, the feminists that left the Methodist Church because we like Mary probably had one heck of a rude awakening when they found out that in the Catholic Church, women don’t have any right to choose to have an abortion…and they never will.

Cheers!

Do we really even know the Methodist story is true? I have personally never heard a conversion story in which someone believed they were getting a “female component to God” in the Church. In fact, most converts from Protestantism say the doctrine on Mary is the last hurdle.

 

[Alfie]

sadie2723:

I do believe that you are a true believer in Jesus Christ.

I also believe that you can go to Heaven and not be Catholic.

Now, I will say this in response to your original post. People who leave other churches and become Catholic because they think that the Catholic Church is more liberal are really missing it. Bottom line is that the Catholic Church is one of, if not the, most conservative church out there. Lets look at the facts: 2000 years of being anti- abortion. 2000 years of being anti-birth control. 2000 years without a change in what we include in our Bible. Get the idea? Liberalism implies liberalizing of the church’s teaching. Where the heck is that happening?

Finally, the feminists that left the Methodist Church because we like Mary probably had one heck of a rude awakening when they found out that in the Catholic Church, women don’t have any right to choose to have an abortion…and they never will.

Cheers!

If you believe that a Protestant can go to heaven or at least I assume you meant anyone. Than there is no need for the fullness of the Catholic church…correct? Or are you saying I will never get out of purgatory?

 

[sadie2723]

Alfie:

If you believe that a Protestant can go to heaven or at least I assume you meant anyone. Than there is no need for the fullness of the Catholic church…correct? Or are you saying I will never get out of purgatory?

Cute! I actually laughed. No, the Catholic Church has always maintained that Protestants can go to heaven. The theory being that you are brought up in a system in which the fullness of the Catholic faith is not presented to you. Thus, you asked me a hypothetical question…by your own admission I might add, and I answered it. I would not presume to judge you.

However, I will say this. The Catholic Church has long maintained that Protestants can go to heaven as they follow Christ, but lack exposure to the fullness of the church. Your presence here is giving you that exposure. Thus, you must decide if you wish to seek the fullness of the church or not. I personally would love to see you get to the point at which you could recieve the fullness of the church, as there is nothing like it.

Now, I will not judge you but I will ask you this. What do you seek? When I started down the VERY long road of my conversion, I thought the same way you do now. Yet, I had only one goal. To seek the truth of Christ and use that truth to get closer to him. If this is your goal, you will find only one destination.

 

[Batjacboy]

Alfie:

If you believe that a Protestant can go to heaven or at least I assume you meant anyone. Than there is no need for the fullness of the Catholic church…correct? Or are you saying I will never get out of purgatory?

When the Catholic Church teaches that a non-Catholic can go to heaven, it’s with the emphasis on can: It’s possible, in God’s great wisdom.

We can be optimistic about the salvation of others, especially those who are invincibly ignorant, but at no time has the Church ever taught that it’s a done deal for those who are not invincibly ignorant.

The fullness of the Church is crucial; how much of it you partake of is between you and God.

But we would warn against any false optimism or false confidence, especially among the knowledgeable.

 

[magdelaine]

Eden:

Do we really even know the Methodist story is true? I have personally never heard a conversion story in which someone believed they were getting a “female component to God” in the Church. In fact, most converts from Protestantism say the doctrine on Mary is the last hurdle.

My story doesn’t really count because I wasn’t really Protestant (at least not since I was 10), but when I decided quite suddenly that I needed God, bad, Mary was an attraction for me. I had spent years in a meditation/worship flirtation with Hinduism, specifically with Durga and Kali; both goddesses. I figured that the Catholic Church was the only christian tradition with a true feminine component, so that is where I went.

 

[sadie2723]

magdelaine:

My story doesn’t really count because I wasn’t really Protestant (at least not since I was 10), but when I decided quite suddenly that I needed God, bad, Mary was an attraction for me. I had spent years in a meditation/worship flirtation with Hinduism, specifically with Durga and Kali; both goddesses. I figured that the Catholic Church was the only christian tradition with a true feminine component, so that is where I went.

Well, the Lord works in mysterious ways, but I guess…whatever gets you in the door. We are glad that Mary helped to bring you the the feet of her son.

 

[Alfie]

magdelaine:

My story doesn’t really count because I wasn’t really Protestant (at least not since I was 10), but when I decided quite suddenly that I needed God, bad, Mary was an attraction for me. I had spent years in a meditation/worship flirtation with Hinduism, specifically with Durga and Kali; both goddesses. I figured that the Catholic Church was the only christian tradition with a true feminine component, so that is where I went.

Do you know anything about insight meditation? What is it?

 

[sandusky]

Batjacboy:

When the Catholic Church teaches that a non-Catholic can go to heaven, it’s with the emphasis on can: It’s possible, in God’s great wisdom.

:twocents: But Jesus, John, Paul, and the rest say that the one who believes in Christ goes to heaven; none of them mentions being in the Catholic church as a requirement; scripture says that the H.S. baptizes you into Christ’s church when you believe. Are they wrong?

 

[magdelaine]

sadie2723:

I also believe that you can go to Heaven and not be Catholic.

My pet research project was to prove that the Church supported what I have always privately believed; that you can go to Heaven and not be Christian. It is easier if you know “the Way”, but not essential.

You know, I love that joke about getting to heaven, and St. Peter taking you on a tour of heaven. You see the Muslims with their hookas, the Hindus with their saffron feast, the Catholics with their beer and whiskey whooping it up. Finally you get to a place where St. Peter tells you to be very quiet. You see a lot of solemn folk in suits reading the Bible in a group. You ask why you have to be quiet. St. Peter says, “They’re Baptists, and they think they are the only ones up here.”

Anyway, it’s a joke; but it contains a kernal of truth.

 

[magdelaine]

sadie2723:

Well, the Lord works in mysterious ways, but I guess…whatever gets you in the door. We are glad that Mary helped to bring you the the feet of her son.

Praise God for that! I’m very happy to be Home. But I’m also very aware that the Holy Spirit is present in more places than you might suspect.

 

[sadie2723]

:twocents: But Jesus, John, Paul, and the rest say that the one who believes in Christ goes to heaven; none of them mentions being in the Catholic church as a requirement; scripture says that the H.S. baptizes you into Christ’s church when you believe. Are they wrong?

Nope. But they Jesus also says that to have eternal life, you must eat his flesh and drink his blood. Thus, I find a small fly in the ointment. Part of the fullness of the Catholic Chuch is found in communion and those who believe in transubstantiation.

 

[sadie2723]

magdelaine:

Praise God for that! I’m very happy to be Home. But I’m also very aware that the Holy Spirit is present in more places than you might suspect.

The Holy Spirt is everywhere…the question is who will follow it.