Evangelicals are associated with extremists -- could you explain why?

[mary_bobo]

steveandersen:

We’re always nice…it’s just some of us are nicer than others

For me personally evangelical means fundamentalist…I know that may not be an accurate or fair description but that is what goes through my mind and fundamentalism implies an extreme rigidity of thought that seems not only dangerous but downright unchristian. Ignoring the Tradition and the Fathers and holding that every single word of the Bible is literally true despite the overwhelming evidence that it is not just seems downright willful.

(Please note I was raised in a big northeast city where we really didn’t see Protestants in the wild so I never learned much about them. Most everyone was Catholic or Jewish. Sure we had the occasional Lutheran or Episcopalian but heck…they’re almost just like regular people. )
Due to this lack of exposure, certain forms of Protestantism are literally “strange” to me

I’m sure that there are some places where Catholics are a rare as hens teeth and we seem just as strange.

You can’t imagine how it is growing up in the South where there were only two Catholic Churches and the predominant denomination was Baptist. Never did figure out the difference in the Baptist churches, but nevertheless, they had/have strange idea about Catholics i.e. there are tunnels between priest’s homes and the convent, aborted babies of nun’s are buried there; the priest spends the first night with a couple he has married–and more, if I could only remember them.

I think one of the reasons the Evangelicals are so demonized is because of their moral stance on abortion, homosexuality, gay marriage–goes against what the secular humanists in our world are opposed to this view. Some of the radical left, IMO, only socialize with like minded folks and have no idea how the rest of the world lives. I think this is one of the reasons evangelicals are so demonized.

True story: During the War My Dad served on a ship doing convoy escort duty in the Atlantic. For a lot of the crew that war was their first time that they had left their home towns much less their State. My Bronx born Dad met a farmer’s son from Georgia who told him that he never imagined that a Catholic could be such a nice person.

 

[steveandersen]

mary bobo:

…Some of the radical left, IMO, only socialize with like minded folks and have no idea how the rest of the world lives…

unfortunately most of us live in ghettoes of the like-minded

 

[adnauseum]

Well, as this article points out, Catholics had to call in the ACLU to stop evangelicals from extremism.

Summary: a teenager was sent to a court-ordered drug rehabilitation in an evangelical program, the helpers took away his rosary and told him it was witchcraft, and the only way he would get out was to “convert” to the evangelical view.

detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051206/METRO/512060440

Maybe the reason they’re called extremists is because they can be, well, extreme?

Yet another reason why the ACLU is not necessarily our enemy. I find them less threatening than fundamentalist extremists.

 

[God_s_Child]

**Please forgive me ** for not coming back to post earlier. I will explain further:

I believe there are two types of “Christians”. Those who follow the Lord, and those who do all the “right things”. This crosses into any church denomination, IMO. For example, 80% of the US term themselves Christians - yet, continue to go on about their daily lives as if there was no God.

What makes a true Christian (in my opinion)? One who has given their life to the Lord - who walks with the Lord daily - who strives to become a better Child - you will know them by their “fruit”.

You will notice that nowhere do I separate by Church in my definition. That is because I believe there are true Christians in any and all religions, (with the exception of religions which do not believe that Christ is our Savior - the son of God).

My question on why are Evangelicals considered extremists was a culmination of opinions I gleened from some of the posts on this Board. It seems as though many believe that we “say a prayer” and are instantly saved – no matter what we do with our lives from then after. Not true. We say a prayer, giving our lives to the Lord, and dedicating our heart, soul and mind to Him. We are given the gift of the Holy Spirit, who will then guide us and lead us onto the path the Lord has set for us. We read the Bible as much as we can to know and understand God’s Word. You cannot just “say the prayer” and continue in your salvation – you MUST be a “light unto the world”.

We ARE called to be the “fruit of the vine”, as “God is the branch”, but we are not told that we must evangelize the world. The Bible tells us that they will know us and Him by the fruit of our lives.

We are christian conservatives - but I would not classify us as Fundamentalists.

I go to a “mega Church” - 6,000 members. I know this will stir up some response, but I would be glad to answer anyone’s questions on how these “mega Churches” run. By the way, our Church IS open Christmas Day.

God Bless all of you,

 

[Matt16_18]

God's Child:

My question on why are Evangelicals considered extremists was a culmination of opinions I gleened from some of the posts on this Board. It seems as though many believe that we “say a prayer” and are instantly saved – no matter what we do with our lives from then after.

That may not be what you personally believe, but there are many Evangelicals (especially among the Baptist sects and the non-denoms) that will tell you with a straight face that once a man gets “saved”, that there is no sin that he could commit that would cause him to be damned. “No sin” would include the sin of unrepentance for apostasy. Because of their antinomian beliefs, many Evangelicals do, in fact, profess a belief that a man could get “saved” and then do whatever he wants with the rest of his life, including living a life unrepentant Satan worshipping. Is that not an extreme belief?

Antinomianism is an extreme of a belief as the belief of the Universalists who asserts that no one will be damned.

Does your mega-church teach “Once Saved, Always Saved”?

 

[Sherlock]

God's Child:

I believe there are two types of “Christians”. Those who follow the Lord, and those who do all the “right things”. This crosses into any church denomination, IMO. For example, 80% of the US term themselves Christians - yet, continue to go on about their daily lives as if there was no God.

I don’t accept your two divisions, and you need to offer some evidence that “following the Lord” and doing “all the right things” are somehow opposed. They aren’t. Doing “all the right things” IS following the Lord. For myself, if I felt inclined to make judgements and assign categories, I would make the divide between those who follow the Lord and those who don’t. Since some of this is internal and only visible to God, I can only go by what I observe: does the person at least fulfill the basics, such as public worship on the Lord’s Day? Do they refrain from work on that day as well? Do they confess their sins? Are they concerned for their neighbors, especially the poor, giving of their time and treasure in service to others? Do they speak of their faith, sharing it with others? It would seem to me that if a person isn’t doing those required things, then it might not be a good sign. Now, you may respond that someone might do those things and not be “following the Lord”, but that’s an internal judgement that neither you or I are qualified to make.
God's Child:

What makes a true Christian (in my opinion)? One who has given their life to the Lord - who walks with the Lord daily - who strives to become a better Child - you will know them by their “fruit”.

True, though some “fruit” is not visible to us.
God's Child:

You will notice that nowhere do I separate by Church in my definition. That is because I believe there are true Christians in any and all religions

You are saying, then, that all religions are equal. Sorry, but I cannot accept that. Jesus founded a Church (Matthew 16:17-19), not a bunch of churches, and prayed that we may be as one. The Catholic Church has the fullness of truth, and while Protestants have parts of that truth, they lack the whole. They lack the sacraments, particularly the Eucharist (Jesus tells us that we must eat His flesh and drink His blood or we will have no life in us). Having said that, I have come across some very holy and devout Protestants who do better with what partial truth they have, in contrast to some Catholics who don’t do anything with the fullness of truth that they possess. I’m afraid my experience with Evanglical Protestants has not been favorable, however that’s just a function of my locality and other factors and I draw no conclusions from it.
God's Child:

My question on why are Evangelicals considered extremists was a culmination of opinions I gleened from some of the posts on this Board. It seems as though many believe that we “say a prayer” and are instantly saved – no matter what we do with our lives from then after. Not true. We say a prayer, giving our lives to the Lord, and dedicating our heart, soul and mind to Him. We are given the gift of the Holy Spirit, who will then guide us and lead us onto the path the Lord has set for us. We read the Bible as much as we can to know and understand God’s Word. You cannot just “say the prayer” and continue in your salvation – you MUST be a “light unto the world”.

But some Evangelicals DO believe in “once saved, always saved”. I have an Evangelical friend who believes that, which is why she lives her life no differently than a nice atheist would. If you look around in this forum, you’ll find discussions with these people. I’ve had discussions with an Evangelical who told me that good works (serving the poor, etc) was SATAN"S WORK. (He was fond of using all caps when writing This illustrates the problem with Protestantism: people have entirely different ideas about essential matters of salvation, yet all claim the Bible as their only authority. It leads to relativism, which is not consistent with Christianity, which holds that truth can be known (and is ultimately a Someone, not a something).
God's Child:

We ARE called to be the “fruit of the vine”, as “God is the branch”, but we are not told that we must evangelize the world. .

Not true. Jesus told the Apostles to “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations”. Now, He was speaking to His clergy, but we are also called: look at the parable of the talents. We are told to not hide our light. Look at 1 Peter 2:9 “But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s own people, that you may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light”. There’s more…

cont.
God's Child:

We are christian conservatives - but I would not classify us as Fundamentalists.".

That’s nice to know.

 

[Sherlock]

cont.
God's Child:

I go to a “mega Church” - 6,000 members. I know this will stir up some response, but I would be glad to answer anyone’s questions on how these “mega Churches” run. By the way, our Church IS open Christmas Day.
,

I’m not sure why it would stir up any responses. And Catholic Churches are open on Christmas; Christmas Eve; the day before that and the day before that; and the day before that, and so on. I’m not really sure what your point is here.

Anyway, it’s nice to hear from you. God bless.

 

[Matt16_18]

Sherlock:

… if I felt inclined to make judgements and assign categories, I would make the divide between those who follow the Lord and those who don’t.

Jesus himself makes that division. "Why do you call me `Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?”
Luke 6:46

"Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”
Matt 7:21

 

[Sherlock]

Matt16_18:

Jesus himself makes that division. "Why do you call me `Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?”
Luke 6:46

"Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”
Matt 7:21

What?! Jesus is telling them to do “all the right things”!!

 

[Matt16_18]

Sherlock:

What?! Jesus is telling them to do “all the right things”!!

That is the problem with so many Evangelicals. They preach a false Gospel that asserts that one can have a relationship with Jesus as Savior by “faith alone”, while the relationship with Jesus as Lord is strictly optional for one’s salavation. If you argue that this an absurd reading of the Gospel, then you will be accused of preaching “works salvation”.

 

[Matt16_18]

Sherlock:

I’ve had discussions with an Evangelical who told me that good works (serving the poor, etc) was SATAN"S WORK.

That nasty ol’ “works salvation” of the Catholics.

The corporal works of mercy are SATAN’S WORK - could anything be more absurd than believing that?

 

[dafalax]

debras56:

That might be true; however, why would one group of Christians call another “extremist,” or “not Christian?”

Eh.
I assumed the author of the post was asking why the secular world called them extremists, not Catholics. I guess i should have had more information. At any rate, while the unity of all Christians is something we all pray for, i think we should put aside our inter-denomination squabbles and battle the secular world. All of us “extremists” have more to fear from them than from each other.

 

[Sherlock]

dafalax:

Eh.
I assumed the author of the post was asking why the secular world called them extremists, not Catholics. I guess i should have had more information. At any rate, while the unity of all Christians is something we all pray for, i think we should put aside our inter-denomination squabbles and battle the secular world. All of us “extremists” have more to fear from them than from each other.

I think the poster was referring to Catholics regarding Evangelicals as extremists, but, hey, maybe she can help us out. At any rate, your point is well taken: regardless of our serious theological differences, Evangelicals are on our side in the battle against militant secularism. I think that they are quite likely to lose their prejudices by fighting side-by-side with Catholics on the pro-life and Judeo-Christian values battlegrounds. That being said, this IS an apologetics forum, and so this is the arena to discuss those differences.

 

[VociMike]

When I read posts by Christians who condemn the sacred celebration of Christmas as pagan (and Easter too), I do tend to think “extremist”.

Same thing when I read posts by Christians arguing with great energy that C.S. Lewis was a heretic and is in hell (lots of this going on now with the Narnia movie release).

When I see Jack Chick tracts, and similar-minded websites, I do tend to think “extremist”.

I don’t know what percentage of evangelicals fall into these groups, but the ones who do certainly do seem to make a lot of noise. I’m sure they cause some grief to the rest of their more moderate brethren as well.

 

[Sherlock]

I’m really not clear why belonging to a “mega-church” would stir up a response, as I mentioned in an earlier post. Could you explain why you think that it would? As a Catholic, I belong to a Church that has about a billion members. As for an individual church being large, why, there’s nothing more “mega” than St. Peter’s Basilica. Masses have been held there for 30,000 people. I don’t think Catholics are unfamiliar with large churches.

 

[deb1]

VociMike:

When I read posts by Christians who condemn the sacred celebration of Christmas as pagan (and Easter too), I do tend to think “extremist”.

Same thing when I read posts by Christians arguing with great energy that C.S. Lewis was a heretic and is in hell (lots of this going on now with the Narnia movie release).

When I see Jack Chick tracts, and similar-minded websites, I do tend to think “extremist”.

I don’t know what percentage of evangelicals fall into these groups, but the ones who do certainly do seem to make a lot of noise. I’m sure they cause some grief to the rest of their more moderate brethren as well.

I personally think that very few evangelicals fall into the line of extremist, but those that do are certainly the loudest and the scariest. They are not scary because of their practices but because they insist that all Christians must act and believe as they do.

HEre is an example. When I first became a Christian I searched the internet for advice on what consititued modesty. At first I found reasonable sites that had differing opinions on whether modesty in women meant dresses or if pants were allowed. None of these were extreme, the authors simply had differing opinions.

And then I found the extremist who said things such as women should never cut their hair-not even their bangs, women should wear a headcovering(and there was bickering back and forth as to how big the covering should be), dresses should be large enough to completely conceal a woman’ s form etc. Worse, all these sites claimed to be the one true Christian way. The more extreme view, the less likely they were to accept other’s views or even be charitable toward other’s view.

 

[petra]

God's Child:

My question on why are Evangelicals considered extremists was a culmination of opinions I gleened from some of the posts on this Board. It seems as though many believe that we “say a prayer” and are instantly saved – no matter what we do with our lives from then after. Not true. We say a prayer, giving our lives to the Lord, and dedicating our heart, soul and mind to Him. We are given the gift of the Holy Spirit, who will then guide us and lead us onto the path the Lord has set for us. We read the Bible as much as we can to know and understand God’s Word. You cannot just “say the prayer” and continue in your salvation – you MUST be a “light unto the world”.

We ARE called to be the “fruit of the vine”, as “God is the branch”, but we are not told that we must evangelize the world. The Bible tells us that they will know us and Him by the fruit of our lives.

We are christian conservatives - but I would not classify us as Fundamentalists.

I go to a “mega Church” - 6,000 members. I know this will stir up some response, but I would be glad to answer anyone’s questions on how these “mega Churches” run. By the way, our Church IS open Christmas Day.

God Bless all of you,

Hi God’s Child! Welcome to our discussions.

I think some people inaccurately use the terms Fundamentalist and Evangelical interchangeably. Fundamentalists are often extremists in their energetic efforts to cast Catholicism as a cult. Although Evangelicals believe that there are serious errors in Catholicism, most wouldn’t say that there aren’t any Catholics that are saved. You’re right–Evangelicals are not extremist.

I was an Evangelical from age 18-40, and I was very involved in Campus Crusade for Christ in college and actively involved in evangelical churches wherever I lived. I was also involved in an Evangelical Free Church when in college. I was also a Calvinist during the same 22 year period. If I remember correctly, the EF Church is Calvinistic to some extent–is that right? You say that evangelicals don’t believe that people can continue in salvation with just the sinner’s prayer and that their continued salvation is dependant upon being a light in the world (I read into this that you suggest that someone cannot merely believe, but also must exhibit a changed life of following Christ). If this is your understanding, it is very Biblical and very Catholic. However, in my previous experience as an Evangelical and my understanding of the theology behind Evangelical beliefs, most Evangelicals would disagree. They would say that a changed exterior life should be a natural outcome of interior change (salvation), but the deal is sealed with the sinner’s prayer, and theoretically someone could continue in a worldly lifestyle after the prayer and still be saved. They believe that salvation cannot be lost.

I’m also surprised that in your experience with Evangelicals, they don’t believe they are required to evangelize the world. They come by that name for a reason–they are very vocal about sharing their faith with others and are very active in supporting missionary work and even going on missions themselves. It is very common nowadays for lay people to use their vacation time from work to go on short-term missions. Evangelicals are beautiful people and they love the Lord. What led me to the Catholic Church, though, was the Evangelical Christian experience is incomplete and their theology incorrect in some areas.

Peace to you.

 

[petra]

deb1:

I personally think that very few evangelicals fall into the line of extremist, but those that do are certainly the loudest and the scariest. They are not scary because of their practices but because they insist that all Christians must act and believe as they do.

HEre is an example. When I first became a Christian I searched the internet for advice on what consititued modesty. At first I found reasonable sites that had differing opinions on whether modesty in women meant dresses or if pants were allowed. None of these were extreme, the authors simply had differing opinions.

And then I found the extremist who said things such as women should never cut their hair-not even their bangs, women should wear a headcovering(and there was bickering back and forth as to how big the covering should be), dresses should be large enough to completely conceal a woman’ s form etc. Worse, all these sites claimed to be the one true Christian way. The more extreme view, the less likely they were to accept other’s views or even be charitable toward other’s view.

Deb, what you describe are Fundamentalists, not Evangelicals. They are actually very different branches of Protestantism.

 

[petra]

deb1:

I personally think that very few evangelicals fall into the line of extremist, but those that do are certainly the loudest and the scariest. They are not scary because of their practices but because they insist that all Christians must act and believe as they do.

HEre is an example. When I first became a Christian I searched the internet for advice on what consititued modesty. At first I found reasonable sites that had differing opinions on whether modesty in women meant dresses or if pants were allowed. None of these were extreme, the authors simply had differing opinions.

And then I found the extremist who said things such as women should never cut their hair-not even their bangs, women should wear a headcovering(and there was bickering back and forth as to how big the covering should be), dresses should be large enough to completely conceal a woman’ s form etc. Worse, all these sites claimed to be the one true Christian way. The more extreme view, the less likely they were to accept other’s views or even be charitable toward other’s view.

Deb, what you describe are Fundamentalists, not Evangelicals. They are actually very different branches of Protestantism.

 

[deb1]

petra:

Deb, what you describe are Fundamentalists, not Evangelicals. They are actually very different branches of Protestantism.

You are correct. I did make a mistake. I should have written Fundamentalist instead of evangelicals. Although to be even more fair, not all Fundamentalists are as extreme as I described.