Evangelical's..are they still a arm of Conservative Parties?

[waxwing]

I recently got to watching James Robison’s program in the morning before going to work, he had Eric Metaxas the author of a recent Dietrich Bonhoeffer book on recently and have been watching periodically ever since. Recently he had Rick Perry the Governor of Texas on and was surprised at the gushing and whole hearted support of the man and/or party. This coincides with some of my out town Evangelical family coming to visit some of my family that live my town (also Protestant) anyways, was invited to come to their service which I did as a sign of family unity (didn’t cause me to miss my Catholic obligation) and after the service talk of politics came up and everyone had uniformly said we’re praying for the Conservative Party to win election, I live in Canada and had election recently, I just sat their silently thinking two things, nothing has changed, and secondly I wonder if down the street the Anglican or the Presbyterian Church are praying for the other party?

I thought is it part and parcel to be a good Evangelical Chrisitan you need to vote for a specific party?

Lastly to those not familiar with Canadian Politics, the Conservative Party is much more about fiscal issues rather than the usual hot button social issues you have in the States

 

[uxordepp]

I’m a Canadian and was not at all happy about my recent voting choices!

It is not required that a Christian vote for a particular party, at least not that I’ve ever heard. However if a Christian holds firmly to certain philosophies, some parties can be quite handily eliminated.

Because of my pro-life stance, I could never vote for the Green Party which seems to have a definite anti- (human) life agenda, with talk of population control. The NDP have a definite pro-“choice” view, which also takes them absolutely off my possible voting list.

There are Liberal pro-lifers, but they do not seem to influence their party’s policies. Pierre Trudeau was Catholic when he opened the pandora’s box by striking down any controls on abortion in this country.

The Conservative Party has made some pro-life moves and has more pro-life members (one of which is my MP…thank God). But beyond that I don’t know if they’re any better than any other party at his point.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

I’m a Canadian and was not at all happy about my recent voting choices!

It is not required that a Christian vote for a particular party, at least not that I’ve ever heard. However if a Christian holds firmly to certain philosophies, some parties can be quite handily eliminated.

Because of my pro-life stance, I could never vote for the Green Party which seems to have a definite anti- (human) life agenda, with talk of population control. The NDP have a definite pro-“choice” view, which also takes them absolutely off my possible voting list.

There are Liberal pro-lifers, but they do not seem to influence their party’s policies. Pierre Trudeau was Catholic when he opened the pandora’s box by striking down any controls on abortion in this country.

The Conservative Party has made some pro-life moves and has more pro-life members (one of which is my MP…thank God). But beyond that I don’t know if they’re any better than any other party at his point.

Here in the states, most of us are smart enough to know this is true. Sadly, when you elect someone you don’t elect the person, you elect their party. The leader in whichever arena he or she serves has to keep his or her party happy so they will generally stay in line with that party to keep the funding, promotion, and voting base happy.

That’s why most of us are smart enough not to buy into “pro-life democrat” baloney. But I digress, this is all from a country south of you guys.

So, I agree with you. Being a christian means you hold to certain truths of the faith - truths which most parties put themselves at direct odds with such as: sanctity of life, sanctity of marriage, dignity human life, religious and personal freedom, etc…This is why you do see a vast majority (though not all) of faithful and devout persons voting almost exclusively for one party. At least, this will be the case until all parties can respect the most fundamental and sacred human rights.

 

[waxwing]

I’m a Canadian and was not at all happy about my recent voting choices!

It is not required that a Christian vote for a particular party, at least not that I’ve ever heard. However if a Christian holds firmly to certain philosophies, some parties can be quite handily eliminated.

Because of my pro-life stance, I could never vote for the Green Party which seems to have a definite anti- (human) life agenda, with talk of population control. The NDP have a definite pro-“choice” view, which also takes them absolutely off my possible voting list.

There are Liberal pro-lifers, but they do not seem to influence their party’s policies. Pierre Trudeau was Catholic when he opened the pandora’s box by striking down any controls on abortion in this country.

The Conservative Party has made some pro-life moves and has more pro-life members (one of which is my MP…thank God). But beyond that I don’t know if they’re any better than any other party at his point.

Hello

No its not a requirement that you vote for a certain party, but within Evangelicalism it a appears to be a unofficial requirement or to put another way by the power of suggestion and peer pressure it may make life easier within this segment of Christianity. Now I am consistent Pro-Lifer, by that I mean not just the abortion issue, also anti euthanasia and anti capital punishment. But the these issues are essentially non issues for all parties involved, I followed this past election and was unaware of any talk on any of these social issue’s. It was just the economy the economy the economy.

 

[waxwing]

Here in the states, most of us are smart enough to know this is true. Sadly, when you elect someone you don’t elect the person, you elect their party. The leader in whichever arena he or she serves has to keep his or her party happy so they will generally stay in line with that party to keep the funding, promotion, and voting base happy.

That’s why most of us are smart enough not to buy into “pro-life democrat” baloney. But I digress, this is all from a country south of you guys.

So, I agree with you. Being a christian means you hold to certain truths of the faith - truths which most parties put themselves at direct odds with such as: sanctity of life, sanctity of marriage, dignity human life, religious and personal freedom, etc…This is why you do see a vast majority (though not all) of faithful and devout persons voting almost exclusively for one party. At least, this will be the case until all parties can respect the most fundamental and sacred human rights.

The interesting part is that other Christians, ala Mainlines and some Catholic tend to disperse their votes a little evenly than Evangelicals. I am not a American so this is comment from someone looking at the scene from distance, but part of me thinks Republicans also will not change certain status qua social issues as it is easier to “rally the troops” around the proverbial carrots that keeps dangling in front of them. I know their is some good indivdual Republicans and Democrats but I am highly suspicious of power, money and the desire to retain/aquire and grow in these properties

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

The interesting part is that other Christians, ala Mainlines and some Catholic tend to disperse their votes a little evenly than Evangelicals. I am not a American so this is comment from someone looking at the scene from distance, but part of me thinks Republicans also will not change certain status qua social issues as it is easier to “rally the troops” around the proverbial carrots that keeps dangling in front of them. I know their is some good indivdual Republicans and Democrats but I am highly suspicious of power, money and the desire to retain/aquire and grow in these properties

The other thing to look at is who is dispersing those votes. In my experience the people coming to church every weekend and are devoted to their faith vote overwhelmingly one way, while the Christmas and Easter catholics, or those who are, forgive me, “pew warmers” tend to vote another way. There are simply more Catholics and “mainstream” denominations. Also, when you take into fact that only 1 in 5 Catholics regularly attend mass…well, there you go. Evangelicalism does not lend itself well to “pew warming.” You don’t get many, if any, wishy-washy evangelicals. I speak from experience on this one.

I disagree about the proverbial carrot. I mean, it may be one way in Canada (I take it you’re from there? Correct me if I’m wrong) but in the states, Republicans are doing all in their power to limit abortion, funding of abortion, and ease of abortion and these other issues as much as possible. Many people forget that it was indeed Bush that outlawed partial-birth abortion and set a limit on gestation. Also, you can’t forget about DOMA. It’s a huge battle that’s going to take years. I think anyone down here knows that, and it’s an even bigger battle in Canada because Canada tends to be more liberal in their culture (that’s what I gather from life on the border though). Progress is being made, but with so many voting for pro-abortion candidates, the process is slowed, halted, and at times going in reverse! We can see that now with our current administration as they seek federal funding for abortions and abortion-providing organizations.

 

[waxwing]

The other thing to look at is who is dispersing those votes. In my experience the people coming to church every weekend and are devoted to their faith vote overwhelmingly one way, while the Christmas and Easter catholics, or those who are, forgive me, “pew warmers” tend to vote another way. There are simply more Catholics and “mainstream” denominations. Also, when you take into fact that only 1 in 5 Catholics regularly attend mass…well, there you go. Evangelicalism does not lend itself well to “pew warming.” You don’t get many, if any, wishy-washy evangelicals. I speak from experience on this one.

I disagree about the proverbial carrot. I mean, it may be one way in Canada (I take it you’re from there? Correct me if I’m wrong) but in the states, Republicans are doing all in their power to limit abortion, funding of abortion, and ease of abortion and these other issues as much as possible. Many people forget that it was indeed Bush that outlawed partial-birth abortion and set a limit on gestation. Also, you can’t forget about DOMA. It’s a huge battle that’s going to take years. I think anyone down here knows that, and it’s an even bigger battle in Canada because Canada tends to be more liberal in their culture (that’s what I gather from life on the border though). Progress is being made, but with so many voting for pro-abortion candidates, the process is slowed, halted, and at times going in reverse! We can see that now with our current administration as they seek federal funding for abortions and abortion-providing organizations.

Good points on the “pew warming” Catholic and Mainline’s and the way they factor in the voting dispersing. Regarding wish-washy evangelical’s I’m not sure, I mean they may be more vocal in their beliefs, but last time I checked their divorce rates are about the same or even higher than mainlines or nonChristians. Just to use this as an example. I would say Evangelicals see things more Black and White and may be prone to be one issue voters. Where as some of the other nonevangelicals may see things as little more nuanced. By that I mean their are the usual social issues everyone knows about, but tax policies, regulation/deregulation policies, military policies, environmental policies, monetary policies etc are also social issues on a time line that is further out but their are important implications to decisions made on these as well.

My proverbial carrot theory is just that a theory, so if I am off base on that well so be it. But it is something I have thought is a possibility on a party level. Yes Canada is more liberal and that may be why these socials issue never take centre stage to the extend it does in the States.

 

[Hiskid1973]

Whitacre_Girl …You pretty much hit it dead on, I’m evangelical with evangelical friends/family.
My one sister volunteers at the local pregnancy center…There are even voter guides put out
that highlight pro life candidates… There’s is repub stuff we don’t like but you choose the best you can get…

 

[Izdaari]

My church is Assemblies of God, which is generally considered theologically conservative, evangelical and Pentecostal… and we hear very little about politics from the pulpit, and I have no idea how most of our congregation votes. With a few of them I know, because we’ve discussed politics privately, but generally the subject just doesn’t come up in church. From what information I do have, I get the impression we’re pretty diverse, not at all a reliable source of conservative or Republican votes. We seem to have Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians and Greens. (I happen to be a Libertarian myself.)

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

My church is Assemblies of God, which is generally considered theologically conservative, evangelical and Pentecostal… and we hear very little about politics from the pulpit, and I have no idea how most of our congregation votes. With a few of them I know, because we’ve discussed politics privately, but generally the subject just doesn’t come up in church. From what information I do have, I get the impression we’re pretty diverse, not at all a reliable source of conservative or Republican votes. We seem to have Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians and Greens. (I happen to be a Libertarian myself.)

I was in the Assemblies of God, and I frequently heard about politics relating SPECIFICALLY to abortion and protection of the nation. I would say that our congregation was overwhelmingly conservative.

 

[Izdaari]

I was in the Assemblies of God, and I frequently heard about politics relating SPECIFICALLY to abortion and protection of the nation. I would say that our congregation was overwhelmingly conservative.

I’m sure there are many AG congregations like that, but as with Baptists, AG has very little central church government, and there’s a lot of diversity between congregations. We have our 14 Fundamental Truths in common, but not necessarily a whole lot more. Our pastor doesn’t preach on politics at all, and I strongly prefer it that way. Instead, our focus is on discipleship and missions work.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

I’m sure there are many AG congregations like that, but as with Baptists, AG has very little central church government, and there’s a lot of diversity between congregations. We have our 14 Fundamental Truths in common, but not necessarily a whole lot more. Our pastor doesn’t preach on politics at all, and I strongly prefer it that way. Instead, our focus is on discipleship and missions work.

This is very true - you never know what you are getting when you go into an AG church. I experienced that first hand. haha

I think the reason why politics was such an issue for our church was our enormous pro-life involvements. Our church took a very strong outspoken stance on pro-life causes and issues. I suppose it doesn’t do anyone much good to support pro-life and still vote for pro-abortion candidates.

 

[Publisher]

Before I became convinced a Friend at 19, I kept my voting choices a secret…it is no one else’s concern whom I vote for…my stance didn’t go over well in the Nazarene church as it was expected that one would “share” who one voted for on any given election…the congregation had “guidelines” on “who a good Christian should vote for…”…it’s no one’s concern but mine as far as I am concerned.

 

[waxwing]

Before I became convinced a Friend at 19, I kept my voting choices a secret…it is no one else’s concern whom I vote for…my stance didn’t go over well in the Nazarene church as it was expected that one would “share” who one voted for on any given election…the congregation had “guidelines” on “who a good Christian should vote for…”…it’s no one’s concern but mine as far as I am concerned.

Good Point here, my experience within evangelical circles is their is a lot of political influencing/“sharing” going on but its not really sharing as their are assumed “good guys” and “bad guys” and unless you prepared for lots of explaining and defending its a good idea to keep your voting practice private.

 

[Sufjon]

I recently got to watching James Robison’s program in the morning before going to work, he had Eric Metaxas the author of a recent Dietrich Bonhoeffer book on recently and have been watching periodically ever since. Recently he had Rick Perry the Governor of Texas on and was surprised at the gushing and whole hearted support of the man and/or party. This coincides with some of my out town Evangelical family coming to visit some of my family that live my town (also Protestant) anyways, was invited to come to their service which I did as a sign of family unity (didn’t cause me to miss my Catholic obligation) and after the service talk of politics came up and everyone had uniformly said we’re praying for the Conservative Party to win election, I live in Canada and had election recently, I just sat their silently thinking two things, nothing has changed, and secondly I wonder if down the street the Anglican or the Presbyterian Church are praying for the other party?

I thought is it part and parcel to be a good Evangelical Chrisitan you need to vote for a specific party?

Lastly to those not familiar with Canadian Politics, the Conservative Party is much more about fiscal issues rather than the usual hot button social issues you have in the States

I think what you are saying is an analog of what I see in the United States, in that there is a relationship between conservative parties and Evangelical Christians. I think that many conservatives pander to fundamentalist Christian values in order to get elected, but in truth, they have no intention of actually doing anything once elected. That was very evident in the 2004 general elections where social issues were used as a wedge to help one party prevail. They railed against homosexuality and abortion, and of course after the election, everything went on as before. They use these issues to get votes.

The problem with that is twofold. Firstly, it detracts from the real issues like wars and poverty and the like. Secondly, it is well known by these candidates that congress can’t and won’t end abortion, because you can’t write a law that violates constitutional rights. Abortion will never be outlawed on the basis of morality or the right to life, because the right to an abortion was defined by the Supreme Court as being based on the the idea that the right of privacy as defined in the constitution is broad enough to encompass a woman’s decision whether or not to terminate her pregnancy.

So when a candidate tells you that he or she will fight to end abortion, they are pretty much taking advantage of you. They turn around and ignore the issues you voted them in office for, whilst actually working against what you stand for. I was glad to see the Professors at Catholic University call House Speaker John Boehner on his dealings in a letter issued to him recently, which said:

"“Mr. Speaker, your voting record is at variance from one of the Church’s most ancient moral teachings,” the letter says. “From the apostles to the present, the Magisterium of the Church has insisted that those in power are morally obliged to preference the needs of the poor. Your record in support of legislation to address the desperate needs of the poor is among the worst in Congress. "

Good stuff!

Your friend
Sufjon

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[JohnnyReb]

I think what you are saying is an analog of what I see in the United States, in that there is a relationship between conservative parties and Evangelical Christians. **I think that many conservatives pander to fundamentalist Christian values in order to get elected, but in truth, they have no intention of actually doing anything once elected. That was very evident in the 2004 general elections where social issues were used as a wedge to help one party prevail. **They railed against homosexuality and abortion, and of course after the election, everything went on as before. They use these issues to get votes.

The problem with that is twofold. **Firstly, it detracts from the real issues like wars and poverty and the like. **Secondly, it is well known by these candidates that congress can’t and won’t end abortion, because you can’t write a law that violates constitutional rights. Abortion will never be outlawed on the basis of morality or the right to life, because the right to an abortion was defined by the Supreme Court as being based on the the idea that the right of privacy as defined in the constitution is broad enough to encompass a woman’s decision whether or not to terminate her pregnancy.

So when a candidate tells you that he or she will fight to end abortion, they are pretty much taking advantage of you. They turn around and ignore the issues you voted them in office for, whilst actually working against what you stand for.** I was glad to see the Professors at Catholic University call House Speaker John Boehner on his dealings in a letter issued to him recently, which said:

"“Mr. Speaker, your voting record is at variance from one of the Church’s most ancient moral teachings,” the letter says. “From the apostles to the present, the Magisterium of the Church has insisted that those in power are morally obliged to preference the needs of the poor. Your record in support of legislation to address the desperate needs of the poor is among the worst in Congress. "

Good stuff!

Your friend
Sufjon**

Excellent post. I am independent myself but most of my theological views are very conservative, but I do lean to the “left” on the some social issues, due to the fact that I am deeply rooted in a conservative theological understanding of the Christian tradition. I bolded the parts that I strongly concur with.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Evangelicals not Evangelical**’**s with an apostrophe in thread title…, just an observation…

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Being a centrist, an independent, is a sign of an intelligent person IMO. I respect that, Brad…You know my politics are centrist with some left leanings in governance, ecology, animal rights, finance, unions and labor, but when it comes to social teachings I’m as conservative as they come…

Excellent post. I am independent myself but most of my theological views are very conservative, but I do lean to the “left” on the some social issues, due to the fact that I am deeply rooted in a conservative theological understanding of the Christian tradition. I bolded the parts that I strongly concur with.

 

[CMatt25]

I think what you are saying is an analog of what I see in the United States, in that there is a relationship between conservative parties and Evangelical Christians. I think that many conservatives pander to fundamentalist Christian values in order to get elected, but in truth, they have no intention of actually doing anything once elected. That was very evident in the 2004 general elections where social issues were used as a wedge to help one party prevail. They railed against homosexuality and abortion, and of course after the election, everything went on as before. They use these issues to get votes.

The problem with that is twofold. Firstly, it detracts from the real issues like wars and poverty and the like. Secondly, it is well known by these candidates that congress can’t and won’t end abortion, because you can’t write a law that violates constitutional rights. Abortion will never be outlawed on the basis of morality or the right to life, because the right to an abortion was defined by the Supreme Court as being based on the the idea that the right of privacy as defined in the constitution is broad enough to encompass a woman’s decision whether or not to terminate her pregnancy.

So when a candidate tells you that he or she will fight to end abortion, they are pretty much taking advantage of you. They turn around and ignore the issues you voted them in office for, whilst actually working against what you stand for. I was glad to see the Professors at Catholic University call House Speaker John Boehner on his dealings in a letter issued to him recently, which said:

"“Mr. Speaker, your voting record is at variance from one of the Church’s most ancient moral teachings,” the letter says. “From the apostles to the present, the Magisterium of the Church has insisted that those in power are morally obliged to preference the needs of the poor. Your record in support of legislation to address the desperate needs of the poor is among the worst in Congress. "

Good stuff!

Your friend
Sufjon

Your friend
Sufjon

Sufjon, Peace.

 

[JohnnyReb]

Being a centrist, an independent, is a sign of an intelligent person IMO. I respect that, Brad…You know my politics are centrist with some left leanings in governance, ecology, animal rights, finance, unions and labor, but when it comes to social teachings I’m as conservative as they come…

Yeah I do believe we have had this discussion before and are of like mind. I am not surprised in the least you agree with me of course. I try not to fault those to the left or right of me, but God knows I could listen better sometimes. I am certainly and odd fellow in some respects-I mean how many people are like me,pro-life, pro-same sex civil unions? Thats a lonely place to be in any part of the church. Romans 14 comes quickly to mind.