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Evangelicals' Nashville Statement 'largely consonant' with Catholic thought
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I have said the following before, but I’ll say it again.
Southern Catholic writer, Flannery O’Connor once opined that southern Fundamentalists would be surprised to learn that they hold more in common with Catholicism than they do with mainline Protestantism. And it’s true. (Note that not all Fundamentalists are Evangelicals or vice versa, but there’s a significant overlap)
Never will I forget a paper my son once wrote in college. His thesis was that Catholic belief permeates this society as part of the “cultural background”, for even much protestant thought and practice, but that nobody knows it or acknowledges it. He cited example after example of things various churches believe and do, which are nowhere in their own doctrinal statements or writings, but can be found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. His professor was a Baptist minister as well as a college professor, and he gave my son an A+ and said it gave him a lot to think about. Anyway, my son’s “core” line was something like this (paraphrasing)
“The Catholic Church is like a pole star at sea. Ship captains don’t always navigate toward it, but they almost always navigate by it.”
And I absolutely believe in the truth of that.
Southern Catholic writer, Flannery O’Connor once opined that southern Fundamentalists would be surprised to learn that they hold more in common with Catholicism than they do with mainline Protestantism. And it’s true. (Note that not all Fundamentalists are Evangelicals or vice versa, but there’s a significant overlap)
Never will I forget a paper my son once wrote in college. His thesis was that Catholic belief permeates this society as part of the “cultural background”, for even much protestant thought and practice, but that nobody knows it or acknowledges it. He cited example after example of things various churches believe and do, which are nowhere in their own doctrinal statements or writings, but can be found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. His professor was a Baptist minister as well as a college professor, and he gave my son an A+ and said it gave him a lot to think about. Anyway, my son’s “core” line was something like this (paraphrasing)
“The Catholic Church is like a pole star at sea. Ship captains don’t always navigate toward it, but they almost always navigate by it.”
And I absolutely believe in the truth of that.
J
Jerome1974
Guest
Remember all those prayers for ecumenism many of us have prayed? Maybe these modern times can move mountains. Rom 8:28.
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johnnyc176
Guest
I not praying for ecumenism. I’m praying that all will come to know Jesus Christ and His Church, the Catholic Church. It’s great that some protestants are moving toward the teachings of Jesus as given to His Church but settling for I’m ok and your ok is not the mission.Remember all those prayers for ecumenism many of us have prayed? Maybe these modern times can move mountains. Rom 8:28.
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unafraid
Guest
That is a great line. Very true. Also , it is the reason the Roman Catholic Church is the de facto “archenemy” of all of the forces in opposition to Jesus Christ Himself. In fact , the very real Satanic dynamism that permeates our world is at war to the bitter end with the Roman Catholic Church , and the Protestant rebellion is part of that struggle.I have said the following before, but I’ll say it again.
Southern Catholic writer, Flannery O’Connor once opined that southern Fundamentalists would be surprised to learn that they hold more in common with Catholicism than they do with mainline Protestantism. And it’s true. (Note that not all Fundamentalists are Evangelicals or vice versa, but there’s a significant overlap)
Never will I forget a paper my son once wrote in college. His thesis was that Catholic belief permeates this society as part of the “cultural background”, for even much protestant thought and practice, but that nobody knows it or acknowledges it. He cited example after example of things various churches believe and do, which are nowhere in their own doctrinal statements or writings, but can be found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. His professor was a Baptist minister as well as a college professor, and he gave my son an A+ and said it gave him a lot to think about. Anyway, my son’s “core” line was something like this (paraphrasing)
“The Catholic Church is like a pole star at sea. Ship captains don’t always navigate toward it, but they almost always navigate by it.”
And I absolutely believe in the truth of that.
J
Jerome1974
Guest
FWIW, this is the prism through which I view ecumenism as well. Paragraph 820 of the Catechism doesn’t go quite this far, though, I admit.I’m praying that all will come to know Jesus Christ and His Church, the Catholic Church…but settling for I’m ok and your ok is not the mission.
Be wary of straw man fallacies.
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EnglishTeacher
Guest
What a fascinating topic. I don’t suppose he has published his paper or published those thoughts in another form that would be accessible somewhere? If so, I would be really interested in reading it.I have said the following before, but I’ll say it again.
Southern Catholic writer, Flannery O’Connor once opined that southern Fundamentalists would be surprised to learn that they hold more in common with Catholicism than they do with mainline Protestantism. And it’s true. (Note that not all Fundamentalists are Evangelicals or vice versa, but there’s a significant overlap)
Never will I forget a paper my son once wrote in college. His thesis was that Catholic belief permeates this society as part of the “cultural background”, for even much protestant thought and practice, but that nobody knows it or acknowledges it. He cited example after example of things various churches believe and do, which are nowhere in their own doctrinal statements or writings, but can be found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. His professor was a Baptist minister as well as a college professor, and he gave my son an A+ and said it gave him a lot to think about. Anyway, my son’s “core” line was something like this (paraphrasing)
“The Catholic Church is like a pole star at sea. Ship captains don’t always navigate toward it, but they almost always navigate by it.”
And I absolutely believe in the truth of that.
L
Luke6_37
Guest
Don’t be so quick folks to jump on the Protestant bandwagon folks.
My guess is that Pope Francis would say this statement reflects an inordinate emphasis on sins of the flesh, which are minor in comparison to the biggest threat to the world: money.
Pope Francis said the biggest threat in the world is money. In St Matthew’s Gospel, when Jesus talked about people’s love and loyalty being torn between two things, he didn’t say it was between “your wife or God”, it was choosing between God or money.
“It’s clear. They are two things opposed to each other,” he said.
When asked why people do not listen to this message even though it has been clearly condemned by the Church since the time of the Gospels, the Pope said it is because some people prefer to speak only about sexual morality.
“There is a great danger for preachers, lecturers, to fall into mediocrity,” which is condemning only those forms of immorality that fall “below the belt”, he said.
“But the other sins that are the most serious: hatred, envy, pride, vanity, killing another, taking away a life … these are really not talked about that much,” he said.
“The most minor sins are the sins of the flesh,” he said, because the flesh is weak. “The most dangerous sins are those of the mind”, and confessors should spend more time asking if a person prays, reads the Gospel and seeks the Lord.
Then as Brother Andre correctly points out, the statement is an example of one distorted view of sexual morality criticizing another. Or to paraphrase, it is an example of the pot calling the kettle black…
But what is clear is that, in the thinking of most Evangelicals (and probably of most of the signatories) the unitive and procreative aspects of marriage may most certainly be separated, because, by and large, they allow the use of contraception, in complete contradiction to the moral code of historical Christianity.
Dr. James Dobson, one of the Statement’s signatories, heads up an organization called Focus on the Family. We learn from an article in the National Catholic Register that, while some prominent Protestants are rethinking the question, Dr. Dobson does not have a moral objection to the use of contraception:
According to Carrie Gordon Earll, bioethics analyst for Focus on the Family, “We are not opposed to married couples using contraception. Dr. Dobson’s personal interpretation of Scripture does not lead him to believe that the prevention of pregnancy is morally wrong.”
Personal interpretation. There’s the problem.
When contraception is allowed, the marital act between husband and wife becomes lowered in its dignity to a mere erotic pastime. The contraceptive mentality, which essentially divorces the primary purpose of the marital act from sensual pleasure, is hedonism. There is little that separates that hedonism from that most perfectly contraceptive hedonism the Statement is meant to oppose: homosexuality.
Now that we have things in the proper perspective, who wants to discuss the threat that money poses to the world in light of Matthew’s gospel?
Let’s start with the grave sin of those who support denying Americans access to universal healthcare, because it would mean lower profits for insurance & pharmaceutical companies.
J
JimG
Guest
“Of course, when you actually read the document [the Nashville Statement]—assuming you have some basic grounding in traditional Christian teaching about marriage, sexuality, and anthropology—you’ll discover it simply reiterates what the Catholic Church, the Orthodox churches, and traditional Protestants have always held.”
–Carl Olson, writing in CWR
When some Christians affirm traditional moral teaching, other Christians freak out.
–Carl Olson, writing in CWR
When some Christians affirm traditional moral teaching, other Christians freak out.
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Luke6_37
Guest
Carl Olson needs to read Brother Andre’s response.“Of course, when you actually read the document [the Nashville Statement]—assuming you have some basic grounding in traditional Christian teaching about marriage, sexuality, and anthropology—you’ll discover it simply reiterates what the Catholic Church, the Orthodox churches, and traditional Protestants have always held.”
–Carl Olson, writing in CWR
When some Christians affirm traditional moral teaching, other Christians freak out.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I have tried to find it, and so has he, much later. To him it was, at the time, just “one more paper”.
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edwest21
Guest
Archbishop Chaput had this to say:
"On Tuesday, Aug. 29, a group of prominent evangelical scholars and pastors — including respected public voices like Russell Moore — issued the “Nashville Statement.” It’s worth reading in the original, rather than reading about it. Nothing in the document is shocking or belligerent.
"On the contrary: In its preamble and 14 articles, the text simply reaffirms historic biblical beliefs about marriage, chastity and the nature of human sexuality. Critics might question its timing or structure or wording. Some evangelicals have done so. In a normal time, though, the statement would be a non-story.
"But we don’t live in a “normal” time. We live in the midst of a culture war. A methodical effort is now playing out in the mass media to recast biblical truths as a form of “hate,” to reshape public opinion away from those biblical truths, and to silence anyone who stays faithful to Christian teaching on matters of sexual behavior, sexual identity, family and marriage.
“The message is simple: Conform to the new herd dogmas or enjoy the consequences. Which explains the river of public contempt that was quickly poured out on the Nashville Statement.”
Ed
"On Tuesday, Aug. 29, a group of prominent evangelical scholars and pastors — including respected public voices like Russell Moore — issued the “Nashville Statement.” It’s worth reading in the original, rather than reading about it. Nothing in the document is shocking or belligerent.
"On the contrary: In its preamble and 14 articles, the text simply reaffirms historic biblical beliefs about marriage, chastity and the nature of human sexuality. Critics might question its timing or structure or wording. Some evangelicals have done so. In a normal time, though, the statement would be a non-story.
"But we don’t live in a “normal” time. We live in the midst of a culture war. A methodical effort is now playing out in the mass media to recast biblical truths as a form of “hate,” to reshape public opinion away from those biblical truths, and to silence anyone who stays faithful to Christian teaching on matters of sexual behavior, sexual identity, family and marriage.
“The message is simple: Conform to the new herd dogmas or enjoy the consequences. Which explains the river of public contempt that was quickly poured out on the Nashville Statement.”
Ed
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NuclearReceptor
Guest
We Catholics are too afraid of sounding mean. It was a good reminder from the archbishop that we are indeed at war.Archbishop Chaput: But we don’t live in a “normal” time. We live in the midst of a culture war.
At some point, our kidgloves need to come off.
A
ATraveller
Guest
I noticed some of signatories are gay/have same-sex attractions, Christopher Yuan and Sam Allberry, a UK pastor.
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JimG
Guest
The reply by Archbishop Chaput makes a lot of sense. In normal times a statement by evangelical Christians reaffirming historic Christian teaching on marriage and sexuality would be unremarkable.
But at the current time, historic traditional Christian teachings are being recast as hate speech.
It’s as if a culture which no longer accepts standard chemistry, preferring to go with earth, air, wind, and fire, might claim the Periodic Table of the Elements to be hate speech because it doesn’t match their preferred vision.
But at the current time, historic traditional Christian teachings are being recast as hate speech.
It’s as if a culture which no longer accepts standard chemistry, preferring to go with earth, air, wind, and fire, might claim the Periodic Table of the Elements to be hate speech because it doesn’t match their preferred vision.
M
mythbuster1
Guest
Maybe there are a few of them, but most people who oppose universal healthcare do so because they believe it worse than the problem it proposes to solve. Right now, the United States is the safety valve for people who can’t wait in line for treatment. Research and development for new drugs is very expensive and time-consuming; investors won’t finance it without reasonable hope of a fair profit if the new drug is successful. Then there are the people who have seen universal healthcare in action and came to America to get away from it, because of the long lines, general incompetence, and lack of patient-directed care. Abortion and euthanasia proliferate under socialist medicine, because sick and disabled people are expensive for the State to care for, and taxes become oppressive. Also, doctors deserve a fair wage, especially after spending eight years and half a million dollars to become doctors.
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