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rinnie
Guest
Right there. Do we have to do anything No, SHe said no. Do we have to love one another as the father loved us she said no. Scripture says the opposite.
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BRIT72
Guest
You asked about it being from Paul, so I wondered why that would be a problem.
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ChristusVincit
Guest
Always_gr8ful, we used to have a word for people like you, but it’s a shame because it’s out of fashion now.
Shhhhhhhh… can you hear the blood of the martyrs who DIED for these truths accusing you for this?
Heretic… heretic… heretic!
You’re taking the truth and mixing it with falsehood. You are taking a collection of verses and ignoring the rest. You are obstinate in your error. Repent! Please, repent and come to the fullness of the truth!
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BRIT72
Guest
She is saying that these thing’s are not salvation issues, but when a person is saved, they will Love everyone and do the works the Lord wants us to do, because we are changed creatures and the Holy Spirit enables us to live a Holy life.
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ChristusVincit
Guest
Errrrrrr… because Paul was after Mary? Kind of a no-brainer.
Brit, it doesn’t really seem you know much about Sacred Scripture. Are you sure that you’re right and we’re wrong? I would advise that you reconsider your position.
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rinnie
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BRIT72
Guest
No offence, but what on earth are you talking about.
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ChristusVincit
Guest
None taken because it proves my point. You said that Mary would have been aware from Sacred Scripture that all have sinned, but then you quoted St Paul as evidence. At this point, St Paul had not written any of his letters yet. The weren’t considered canonical scripture (in the same way that the Hebrew Bible was) until about 300ad. So to say that Mary would know this and then cite this Pauline quote shows ignorance of Scripture. Which as St Jerome said, is a surefire sign of ignorance of Christ.No offence, but what on earth are you talking about.
Seriously, I don’t want to sound mean but you don’t know what you’re talking about. You’ve been fed a dodgy sketchy theology from your pastor and you’ve really bitten off more than you can chew in this forum. I never understand why this happens, why come here if you’re not a Catholic and not interested in a) becoming one or b) learning about their faith? What, are you here to evangelise us? It’s not going to work! If we’re Catholic-nerds enough to be on a FORUM the chances are we probably know our faith fairly well and will have heard and refuted your tired claims many times before.
I’d like to invite you to do some more reading, pray, and then become a Catholic.
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ChristusVincit
Guest
“As a matter of fact, I had shaken off my sandals and moved on.”
Sorry if we seem irritable or sarcastic. We come across these same faulty criticisms and arguments on a fairly regular basis, and for us, we’re lucky enough to be able to see the fullness of the truth with open eyes. We try to help others but when they refuse, we do get annoyed. I totally empathize with Rinnie.
Sorry if we seem irritable or sarcastic. We come across these same faulty criticisms and arguments on a fairly regular basis, and for us, we’re lucky enough to be able to see the fullness of the truth with open eyes. We try to help others but when they refuse, we do get annoyed. I totally empathize with Rinnie.
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rinnie
Guest
Ok. Then what do you mean. Are you saying that we are saved or justified by faith alone? Or are you saying that we have to do the works the Lord wants us to do. I agree the Holy Spirit enables us to live a Holy Faith, but it does not force us to. We have the freedom of free will to choose to do it, or not to. Do you agree with that or not. And do you agree that we must have faith and works together to have eternal life?
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rinnie
Guest
No, the Church is the living Christ.
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BRIT72
Guest
I wasn’t pointing out that Scripture as evidence of Mary knowing, it was for your benefit, to show you that all have sinned, it’s unfortunate that I didn’t think it would be taken the wrong way.
I don’t have a pastor. I believe in the plurality of elders.
I will never become a catholic, as I know the truth.
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rinnie
Guest
What is plurality of elders?
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Saved43
Guest
The Lord Jesus Christ is a person not a religious system whether it be the Catholic church, Protestant church or any other man made religion/denominationj/sect/system.
There is no mention of Catholics or protestants in the bible (Word of God) as to God men are either Saved (born-again) or sinners. Those who are genuinely born-again are part of Christ’s church which is nothing to do with Catholics, Protestant’s/man made churches or religion.
To be part of Christ’s church a person needs to be born-again not become Catholic or Protestant.
The Lord Jesus Christ who is God manifest in the flesh went all the way to the cross to suffer, bleed and die for your sins and mine, and rose again from the dead to provide salvation.
Those who repent by humbling themselves as guilty lost and hell deserving sinners before God, and put their total dependance in the Lord Jesus Christ and what he did on the cross to save them from hell are born-again/saved from the eternal judgement that their soul would have faced if they had not put personal faith in Christ.
Religion whether it is Catholic or Protestant, Muslim etc will not save anyone from eternal punishment. Repentance towards God and personal faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and him alone will bring a person into the good of what Christ did on the cross.
It is not good enough to say he died for the whole world or our sins within the heart but to realise your sins are taking you down to hell, but the Lord Jesus died for you, and to accept him as your Lord and Saviour trusting in him and his finished work on the cross is enough to save from you hell.
Tomorrow could be too late, receive the Lord Jesus now by personal faith in him.
“Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.” John 3:1-7
“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.” Romans 10:9
“Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.”
2 Corinthians 6:2
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BRIT72
Guest
I am saying we are saved through faith alone and that after salvation, we want to do works, but those works don’t save us. The Holy Spirit doesn’t force us, but enables us, we choose to do good works, because it our new nature in Christ. We love the Lord and want to do his will.
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workingman
Guest
Thats funny. I thought a command from Christ would be good enough.
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BRIT72
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rinnie
Guest
Yep thats what I thought you were saying. And yep you and always are on the same page.
Please show me scripture where it says we are saved through faith alone. Always couldn’t maybe you can.
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ChristusVincit
Guest
Also, I’ve just had a thought.
What do you mean by “belief” anyway? You sure you understand it right?
Some people think “charity” is giving to the poor. It means a lot more than that.
So if it is just straight up “belief”… belief in what?
In Jesus? The pharisees believed in Jesus. They saw him. Are they saved?
In Jesus’s Divinity? Satan believed that, and shuddered. Is he saved?
No, and it’s not even belief that he died for you. First of all that “belief” would probably be better phrased as “trust.” We have to trust in Christ, not just believe him. Trouble with something like the KJV is that words change meaning over the course of 500 years. Trust me, I’m a literature student. You wouldn’t like to know what “quaint” used to mean.
But anyway, it’s belief and trust and acceptance of EVERYTHING that Jesus said and did in his ministry. What makes you think it’s just a little bit of it? It’s not. And I’ll tell you what, if that is the case - you better head down to a Catholic Church tomorrow morning to celebrate mass (John 6) and you’d better start to “break the conventions! Keep the Commandments!”
If I were sitting on a trainline and read a timetable saying that a train would be coming in 5 minutes, I’d “believe” it. But that belief would do me no good unless I got my carcass off of the line.
Christ has set us free, he’s opened the door of our prisons. There’s nothing we could have done to do this. It’s up to us to walk out of it though, through keeping his commandments, doing good works and by trying to love as he did. Does this diminish the work of Christ on Golgotha?
NO!
And all this is to God’s glory anyway. He WANTS us to participate (NB - not achieve. Participate) in our own salvations with him.
What do you mean by “belief” anyway? You sure you understand it right?
Some people think “charity” is giving to the poor. It means a lot more than that.
So if it is just straight up “belief”… belief in what?
In Jesus? The pharisees believed in Jesus. They saw him. Are they saved?
In Jesus’s Divinity? Satan believed that, and shuddered. Is he saved?
No, and it’s not even belief that he died for you. First of all that “belief” would probably be better phrased as “trust.” We have to trust in Christ, not just believe him. Trouble with something like the KJV is that words change meaning over the course of 500 years. Trust me, I’m a literature student. You wouldn’t like to know what “quaint” used to mean.
But anyway, it’s belief and trust and acceptance of EVERYTHING that Jesus said and did in his ministry. What makes you think it’s just a little bit of it? It’s not. And I’ll tell you what, if that is the case - you better head down to a Catholic Church tomorrow morning to celebrate mass (John 6) and you’d better start to “break the conventions! Keep the Commandments!”
If I were sitting on a trainline and read a timetable saying that a train would be coming in 5 minutes, I’d “believe” it. But that belief would do me no good unless I got my carcass off of the line.
Christ has set us free, he’s opened the door of our prisons. There’s nothing we could have done to do this. It’s up to us to walk out of it though, through keeping his commandments, doing good works and by trying to love as he did. Does this diminish the work of Christ on Golgotha?
NO!
And all this is to God’s glory anyway. He WANTS us to participate (NB - not achieve. Participate) in our own salvations with him.
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BRIT72
Guest
NOT A REQUIREMENT OF SALVATION!
This means that faith alone saves, not we can go against God if we want to, because we wont want to.
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