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workingman
Guest
What!? did I miss it. I don’t think so. Not one verse incotext to prove it.
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CWBetts
Guest
I have a friend that is Jewish. She was dumbfounded to learn that Protestant OT Scriptures are incomplete. They were universally accepted as Canon until Martin Luther did his hatched-job on the Scriptures
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guanophore
Guest
That beats the heck out of 30,000 different things.
Hmmm… I suppose it might, if we thought of Jesus as an idol. But, since we believe that Jesus is God, and that the HS is the Soul of the Church, then these are the divine elements that make the Church infallible. The Church, like Christ, is incarnational and sacramental. Jesus has human elements, and divine elements. So does the Church. It is not a “graven image”, but a living being.
1 Peter 2:4-5
4 Come to him, to that living stone, rejected by men but in God’s sight chosen and precious; 5 and like living stones be yourselves built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
~Deuteronomy 5:6–21
The Body of Christ is not a “graven image”.
Eph 2:19-22
9 So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; 22 in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
But you are onto something. It is the Divine element of the Church that has been lost in most of Protestanism, which is why we say there is a deficient view of the church.
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workingman
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NO the cannon established by the Catholic Church is correct. The 66 used by protestents today is not. We can thank Luther for this sort of. Luther after all wanted to chop OT and NT books. They were later put in a apendix and the NT stayed in the Luther Bible even though it contardicted some of his theology. Hense his reference to James as a epistle of straw. The things you learn when you start out following heratics is amaising. Though my following of a heritic eventualy opened my blinde eyse to the truth of the Catholic Church. I pray that the say happens for you. Come to know the truth of th Catholic Church.
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Saved43
Guest
You are disobeying him by not resting/depending/trusting in Christ and his finished work alone. Adding works to gain salvation means disobeying God’s word and saying Christ’s suffering and his precious blood are not enough to save you from hell. Faith in Christ is taking God at his Word and not adding or taking away from Christ’s finished work.
Of course quoting from the real Word of God and not corrupted scripture would help you see that :
“He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” John 3:36
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always_gr8ful
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From my research, I see that Bible in front of you is the New Living Translation or the New American Standard Bible. Is that correct?
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CWBetts
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gr8ful? I am still waiting for you to show me up. I have noticed you seem to run away what confronted by Truth.
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always_gr8ful
Guest
THANK YOU, Saved43!
The only possible way they could have changed “believe” to “obey” is with exactly the explanation you gave (above). IMO, making the change is VERY deceptive, as we see.
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Saved43
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The real Church of Christ contains all the born-again believers that have trusted in him. (Edited)
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always_gr8ful
Guest
I’m here! I’m here! I just had to see what-in-the-world about your Bible. It’s not every day I read something “new”, lol.
Ok, so Saved43 took the heat and told you. Was there another question? Did you see how Jesus was talking about the saved and unsaved in that other scripture?
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CWBetts
Guest
Who made the Change? I am using the NRSV. It also reads the same in the NIV, NAB, ASV, ESV
The greek is apeitheo which means “to refuse belief and obedience” or “to not comply”
so you see the ones who say “does not believe” is less accurate than “does not obey”
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Saved43
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We have found the truth and it’s not the catholic or protestant church systems/sects.
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workingman
Guest
So you say salvation = belief + nothing. Have you looked at St. Matthew 7:15-20; “Beware of false prophets, who com to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenouse wolves. YOu will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? In the same way, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree can not bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will know them by their fruits.”
Taken from the NRSV direct quote. The fruit is obviously our good works and the tree represents a person. If you do not produce good works how could one be saved from the fires of hell. Salvation and good works go hand in hand.
Taken from the NRSV direct quote. The fruit is obviously our good works and the tree represents a person. If you do not produce good works how could one be saved from the fires of hell. Salvation and good works go hand in hand.
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CWBetts
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Pick one. You can’t be neither, unless your Orthodox, but thaey dont buy OSAS
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always_gr8ful
Guest
Ok, I might buy that. So what does the greek say “believe” means in verse 16? Because if it’s the same, we have a problem, don’t we?
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workingman
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You only have a partial truth. No sacraments, no salvation that they aid in brining. O wait thats right we don’t always need to do what God commands.
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always_gr8ful
Guest
NIV= 36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him."
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workingman
Guest
Belief is not used in verse 16. In verse 16 it plainly says you will know them by their fruits. Fruits in this parable is clearly works.
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CWBetts
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Greek “pisteuo” means to put trust into in order to obtain in gaining something.
So the belief in John 3:16 is an aid, not the whole package. Sorry to have to break out the Greek on you.
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always_gr8ful
Guest
Hi Workingman. I’m not going to get caught up here tonight, so I just wanted to give you a shout-out to let you know I’m reading your posts. Personally, I’m glad I have no sacraments to comply to. Just living in the Spirit is hard enough without a bunch of laws added in. Just food for thought - if the sacraments weren’t necessary for your salvation, would you still do them as righteously?
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