L
lucybeebee
Guest
Why has the Catholic evangelization of the African continent been so sucessful, but decidedly less so among blacks in the United States?
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M
meeshy
Guest
Probably because Blacks in America are not Africans, but Americans. Americans in general are difficult to evangelize into Catholicism.
Interesting, too, that so many priests are coming from such a poor, starving country. This really is a testament to God’s mercy and grace.
Peace,
Interesting, too, that so many priests are coming from such a poor, starving country. This really is a testament to God’s mercy and grace.
Peace,
C
Cat
Guest
I hope I can phrase this without sounding bad. I’m white, so I admit that I may have this totally messed up. If so, please correct so that I won’t continue to think incorrectly.
I think that a lot of African Americans are very very proud of their heritage, and rightfully so. Their African culture, including their dress, language, music, dance, and religion, was ripped away from them, so they had to develop a new culture in the midst of the inhuman conditions of slavery.
Black music, churches, dances, dress, hair, cooking, etc.–all of these are part of the “African American” culture that black people want to keep alive and thriving.
In the Catholic Church, we are not red and yellow, black and white, but people. We are not African or Swedish or American or Hispanic or Asian–we’re just people, children of God. We don’t play “black” music or “German music”–it’s all God’s music.
So I think that black people are understandably reluctant to get involved with an organization (Catholic Church) that they perceive will cause them to forget their culture that has been created over several centuries. I don’t think they want to lose their identity as African Americans.
I’ve read a lot of the music threads on this Forum. I don’t think too many “trads” would be real open to having black gospel music played as part of the Mass, no matter how orthodox the words are. Too bad, IMO. Not all African Americans like gospel music, but many do. No wonder they don’t want to come to a church that plays 5th Century white music.
I think that a lot of African Americans are very very proud of their heritage, and rightfully so. Their African culture, including their dress, language, music, dance, and religion, was ripped away from them, so they had to develop a new culture in the midst of the inhuman conditions of slavery.
Black music, churches, dances, dress, hair, cooking, etc.–all of these are part of the “African American” culture that black people want to keep alive and thriving.
In the Catholic Church, we are not red and yellow, black and white, but people. We are not African or Swedish or American or Hispanic or Asian–we’re just people, children of God. We don’t play “black” music or “German music”–it’s all God’s music.
So I think that black people are understandably reluctant to get involved with an organization (Catholic Church) that they perceive will cause them to forget their culture that has been created over several centuries. I don’t think they want to lose their identity as African Americans.
I’ve read a lot of the music threads on this Forum. I don’t think too many “trads” would be real open to having black gospel music played as part of the Mass, no matter how orthodox the words are. Too bad, IMO. Not all African Americans like gospel music, but many do. No wonder they don’t want to come to a church that plays 5th Century white music.
K
kmcgonigle
Guest
My opinion is that most blacks in America were slaves in the South. They took much of their identity from their owners at that time, and their religion was Protestant. Catholics didn’t typically own slaves, as most Catholics in America were Irish, German and Italian laborers themselves. I think it is just part of the geography of the 19th century. Catholicism spread in Africa as a result of missions, not ownership.
Just my humble opine,
Kevin
Just my humble opine,
Kevin
L
lucybeebee
Guest
Was the pre-Vatican II Catholic Church in America ever really into evangelization or was it mostly an ethnic enclave?
M
meeshy
Guest
I agree with Cat and kmc!! Definitely.
I live in the South. There are maybe 10 blacks in our parish of 3000. It’s amazing. Most of the black people I know either do not go to church, or are Baptist, Church of God, or AME. Not too many Methodists, Presbyterians, or Episcopalians.
I think, in addition to what kmc said about the slaves taking the religion of their owners, they also formed their own small churches and sometimes new Protestant sects. That’s where all the little tiny denominations come from, including some of the Pentecostal churches.
In my town we have many black “store-front” churches, and other tiny neighborhood churches. Some use more traditional music, usually employing a version of the Baptist hymnal, others just sing Gospel music (traditional Gospel and contemporary also).
I think there are probably more black Catholics in large cities, especially in the north, than here in the South. Here the culture runs deep, and many identify heavily with their Gullah roots.
I’m not sure about the question of pre-Vatican II evangelization. It might be interesting to do a poll here in the forums on that topic.
Peace,
I live in the South. There are maybe 10 blacks in our parish of 3000. It’s amazing. Most of the black people I know either do not go to church, or are Baptist, Church of God, or AME. Not too many Methodists, Presbyterians, or Episcopalians.
I think, in addition to what kmc said about the slaves taking the religion of their owners, they also formed their own small churches and sometimes new Protestant sects. That’s where all the little tiny denominations come from, including some of the Pentecostal churches.
In my town we have many black “store-front” churches, and other tiny neighborhood churches. Some use more traditional music, usually employing a version of the Baptist hymnal, others just sing Gospel music (traditional Gospel and contemporary also).
I think there are probably more black Catholics in large cities, especially in the north, than here in the South. Here the culture runs deep, and many identify heavily with their Gullah roots.
I’m not sure about the question of pre-Vatican II evangelization. It might be interesting to do a poll here in the forums on that topic.
Peace,
J
Jerusha
Guest
So agreed with you, Cat.
I have been urged to not take direct action on the local problem. It is being resolved. Just takes patience--
E
EarthSoujourner
Guest
As a black woman who is considering converting to Catholicism, I thought I’d take a crack at this.
My great-grandfather was an AME bishop and a missionary in West Africa. I was baptized AME and attended an AME church until I was 12, and then we started attending a Presbyterian church for several years. I attend a non-denominational church and really miss the liturgical traditions of my old churches
Actually, all the praise and worship music (almost no hymns) at my new church seems almost as “white” as Mozart or Gregorian Chant!
Actually, AME is a branch of Methodism. Technically, it’s not affiliated with the United Methodist church, but according to AME TODAY, it’s “Methodist in doctrine and church government”. The AME church broke away from the Methodist Episcopal Church around the turn of the 19th century because of discrimination.
My great-grandfather was an AME bishop and a missionary in West Africa. I was baptized AME and attended an AME church until I was 12, and then we started attending a Presbyterian church for several years. I attend a non-denominational church and really miss the liturgical traditions of my old churches
Actually, all the praise and worship music (almost no hymns) at my new church seems almost as “white” as Mozart or Gregorian Chant!
Don’t forget New Orleans. Most black cradle Catholics I know who aren’t from Africa or the West Indies are from there.
M
meeshy
Guest
Yes, I definitely forgot about New Orleans.
When I was converting to Catholicism, I asked a friend of mine, a black woman, to consider converting also. She really felt a connection with the Church, and we had many discussions about the faith. Ultimately, she felt that her husband would not be happy with her conversion and she stayed in her own church.
I’m wondering, Sojourner, how your family and friends feel about your conversion?
Before I converted I was a member of a very small, fundamentalist Baptist church. I was told repeatedly by my “friends” there, that Catholicism is the work of the devil.
I’m wondering if you’ve encountered the same attitude.
Peace,
When I was converting to Catholicism, I asked a friend of mine, a black woman, to consider converting also. She really felt a connection with the Church, and we had many discussions about the faith. Ultimately, she felt that her husband would not be happy with her conversion and she stayed in her own church.
I’m wondering, Sojourner, how your family and friends feel about your conversion?
Before I converted I was a member of a very small, fundamentalist Baptist church. I was told repeatedly by my “friends” there, that Catholicism is the work of the devil.
I’m wondering if you’ve encountered the same attitude.
Peace,
C
christcnection1
Guest
I tend to think the Catholic Church has greater success in third-world countries (all over the world) because the main focus is on helping the poor. Certainly many of our separated brethren do this as well, but generally speaking, not usually to the same degree as Catholics.
Furthermore, the Catholic Church tends to have a more holistic approach to evangelism, with a greater emphasis on building communities (schools, hospitals, and a multitude of programs.) This greatly appeals to societies that already have a strong family structure.
Unfortunately, many missionaries do “hit and run” evangelism; they take care of some basic needs, share the gospel, and hit the dusty trail. Many are not there for the long haul. Clearly this is a generalization, and not all churches take this approach. However, I believe the theory holds. As an former Evangelical, I now question how positive these one to two week missionary endeavors really are.
Finally, the vast majority in the United States have food, clothing, access to an education, and some health care. I believe if the country went into another “Great Depression,” we would see greater success with Catholic evangelism efforts in the United States. This includes all individuals, not just African-American communities.
Furthermore, the Catholic Church tends to have a more holistic approach to evangelism, with a greater emphasis on building communities (schools, hospitals, and a multitude of programs.) This greatly appeals to societies that already have a strong family structure.
Unfortunately, many missionaries do “hit and run” evangelism; they take care of some basic needs, share the gospel, and hit the dusty trail. Many are not there for the long haul. Clearly this is a generalization, and not all churches take this approach. However, I believe the theory holds. As an former Evangelical, I now question how positive these one to two week missionary endeavors really are.
Finally, the vast majority in the United States have food, clothing, access to an education, and some health care. I believe if the country went into another “Great Depression,” we would see greater success with Catholic evangelism efforts in the United States. This includes all individuals, not just African-American communities.
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