Evangelize me! Help me be ok with having faith

[Trishie]

Emotion and 'spiritual experiences" (human emotion however elevating can seem like spiritual experiences, that doesn’t mean the person experiencing them is experiencing God or union with God. They are sometimes just experiencing those highs that people can experience when open to such things. They are sometimes just experiencing themselves, their personal highs, and we are warned against seeking such experiences as a measure of our ‘holiness’ or of our unity to God.

We are more united with God when we make righteous choices, choices of putting God’s law above our preferences, and choices of practical kindness and justice to others, whether that is easy or difficult.
Remember that when Jesus describes how He judges souls at the last judgement, He makes no mention of spiritual highs, but of our practical kindness to others, which He also takes as being kindness to Himself. [link in my signature]

We don’t necessarily feel like being kind instead of grumpy, assisting others instead of staying in our own comfort zone, but to do so is holiness, is unity with Christ. Religious experiences won’t of themselves get us to heaven. They can of course be genuine, but they can be a natural phenomenon, and even self-congratulatory, without benefit in making us kinder and more Christian people.

One of the greatest saint of last century, St [Padre] Pio wrote:
“Be certain that the more a soul loves God, the less he feels it…God is incomprehensible…so that the more a soul enters into the love of this Supreme Good…this sentiment of love towards Him seems to diminish, to the point of seeming to love Him not at all…Say rather that you love, and that you wish to love with a perfect and consummate love. This good cannot be obtained in its completion except in the next life!”

If God does give a soul a religious experience, then that soul must use it according to the commands of love of God above all and others as self in the choices that person makes, as must we all even if we don’t have ‘religious experiences’* which are sometimes an excess of emotion or a response to a situation or stimulation*, AND also we must continue to choose to live in practical kindness to others.

Religious experiences or piety that does not lead to genuine kindness and charity to others is self- deception.

 

[Trishie]

It matters little what gifts we have, or even that we believe we have, if not evident in practical love of others. And as we all know, choices made for the blessing and assistance of others does not necessarily involve our emotions. Love can be expressed through warm emotions, but love is often required of us when we feel tired and find it difficult to give kindness, respect, justice towards others in our lives. A mother may love her children dearly but she doesn’t every time feel like cooking, cleaning, washing, dealing with child challenges, nor does a father or mother feel warm emotions as he or she works at a difficult routine task to support the family.
Love is required of us, and love is ultimately choices we make, when we feel like it, when we don’t.

I also have found the occasional unexpected sense of God’s presence in my life to be helpful, but it means little if I don’t simply thank God and ensure that I make those choices that are practical kindness for others in prayer and action.

1 Corinthians 13

The Gift of Love

If I speak in the tongues of mortals and of angels, but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away all my possessions, and if I hand over my body so that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient; love is kind; love is not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices in the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will come to an end; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will come to an end. For we know only in part, and we prophesy only in part; but when the complete comes, the partial will come to an end. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became an adult, I put an end to childish ways. For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love.

 

[Della]

Thank you so much for your intelligent and gracious response, and your quote above has been ringing in my ears.

I’m so happy to read that. Understanding that God can and does work outside the sacraments helps us realize that there is hope for those who don’t have the truth or the fullness of the truth. Of course, as another poster pointed out, we can so easily deceive ourselves to our destruction and that of others. So, it is important that we seek the truth and live it, if we have found the truth.

The book recommendations sound on point.

Happily, the texts of most of G. K. Chesterton’s writings are available online: cse.dmu.ac.uk/~mward/gkc/books/index.html. I recommend “The Everlasting Man” to answer the question about who Christ was. And “The Catholic Church and Conversion” for an appreciation of the rightness of Catholic teaching. Enjoy!

I would be interested in knowing if there was a defining doctrine or concept that made you commit fully to Catholicism. If I had to pick one at this point for myself, it would be an awareness of how much harm is done by the great diversity of Christian doctrines. Homes are divided, people wander for years looking for the truth. Somehow, I just know that’s not what Christ intended.

For me this issue was resolved by accepting the Church’s authority to speak in Christ’s name and to decide matters of faith and morals. That was the clencher. Actually, my biggest stumblingblock was devotion to Mary, but Our Lady lay that one to rest in her own sweet way.

For years, I thought Martin Luther was a hero I see things so differently now. The chaos of Protestantism paved the way for the Mormon Church, too. How sad that these divisions and hostilities exist within Christendom.

I too had my Protestant hero–Queen Elizabeth I. I thought her tolerant, level-headed and full of faith. Well, she was level-headed some of the time. And I too came to see that the breakdown in the Christian faith began with the reformation. The break-up of Catholic Europe was one of the greatest disasters of history. We are still paying the price in innumerable ways.

 

[onegirlinchrist]

Might I also suggest watching a few episodes of ‘The Journey Home’ on EWTN? I believe most of them are on Youtube now. I find them absolutely fascinating because each week features the conversion story of a different person - all from different backgrounds. I don’t want to overload you, because it sounds like maybe you could use a little bit of time to just sit with things, but I think it could really give you some perspective. You may also see, as many others have, that the journey to the Catholic faith is often circuitous, and you will begin to see that nothing in your past has been wasted - it has all brought you to where you are today. It’s been one of my favorite shows on TV since I began my journey almost 2 years ago.

As a matter of fact I have checked out that show, and totally loved it. An absolute treasure. I’ve yet to put all the puzzle pieces together, but I sense your’e right (about the past not being wasted). Interestingly, I think my first real contact with Catholicism was through my love of European art, especially classical music. It was just so beautiful and refined. There’s a holy vibe to it, that reminds me so much of Catholicism. Well, we can really credit the Catholic church for much of European art and civilization, can’t we? It’s proof that God has used the Church to sanctify other aspects of existence, and bring people to him through seemingly non-religious ways!

 

[onegirlinchrist]

I do know a little bit of what you are talking about. My suggestion would be to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Take a little at a time. See if it makes sense to you, pray about the aspects you don’t understand, and see where it takes you. Don’t force anything, don’t burn yourself out. Pray for guidance and wisdom. It will come.

Good idea. And I can’t tell you how much I appreciate the Catechism now, after my journey in the confusion that is Protestantism. What a treat to have divinely inspired definitions!

 

[onegirlinchrist]

After 2000 years of growth and development, there isn’t much the Church hasn’t addressed in one way or another.

True, I’m getting the sense that spiritual questions I’ve wrestled with have indeed already been addressed by others before me! I can’t think of another faith as old and still in unity. Out of all world religions, Catholicism stands apart!

 

[onegirlinchrist]

It matters little what gifts we have, or even that we believe we have, if not evident in practical love of others. And as we all know, choices made for the blessing and assistance of others does not necessarily involve our emotions. Love can be expressed through warm emotions, but love is often required of us when we feel tired and find it difficult to give kindness, respect, justice towards others in our lives. A mother may love her children dearly but she doesn’t every time feel like cooking, cleaning, washing, dealing with child challenges, nor does a father or mother feel warm emotions as he or she works at a difficult routine task to support the family.
Love is required of us, and love is ultimately choices we make, when we feel like it, when we don’t.

Lots to think about there! Thanks for your very wise perspective. It does seem that in our modern age, religion is approached more as a “balm and salve” or “high” or pleasurable “zen.” In fact, that’s one of the reasons why I started to weary of Protestantism. At first I loved my Evangelical church’s fiery sermons and passionate sing-a-longs, but with time I started to feel worn down by all the emotional highs, and also wondering what I was giving back to Jesus. I felt like I was using Jesus!

If I had to say which Christian denomination makes me a better person, in terms of challenging me to selflessly love and serve God, I’d pick Catholicism hands down. Mormonism always felt very rewards oriented, and growing up, I never felt like my involvement in the Mormon Church made the world a better place; it felt more like I was conforming to a culture, and at best accumulating blessings. Catholicism takes the “self” out of religion in a way that’s a bit uncomfortable at first, but feels most consistent with the spirit of the New Testament. When I read the Sermon on the Mount, it is just so Catholic!

Your advice is helpful because it reminds me that if results are what matters, verses warm and comfy feelings, then Catholicism gets the win.

 

[onegirlinchrist]

I’m so happy to read that. Understanding that God can and does work outside the sacraments helps us realize that there is hope for those who don’t have the truth or the fullness of the truth. Of course, as another poster pointed out, we can so easily deceive ourselves to our destruction and that of others. So, it is important that we seek the truth and live it, if we have found the truth.

Happily, the texts of most of G. K. Chesterton’s writings are available online: cse.dmu.ac.uk/~mward/gkc/books/index.html. I recommend “The Everlasting Man” to answer the question about who Christ was. And “The Catholic Church and Conversion” for an appreciation of the rightness of Catholic teaching. Enjoy!

For me this issue was resolved by accepting the Church’s authority to speak in Christ’s name and to decide matters of faith and morals. That was the clencher. Actually, my biggest stumblingblock was devotion to Mary, but Our Lady lay that one to rest in her own sweet way.

I too had my Protestant hero–Queen Elizabeth I. I thought her tolerant, level-headed and full of faith. Well, she was level-headed some of the time. And I too came to see that the breakdown in the Christian faith began with the reformation. The break-up of Catholic Europe was one of the greatest disasters of history. We are still paying the price in innumerable ways.

Again, thank you! I know what you mean about coming to trust the Church’s authority. While my emotions can pull me back towards other Christian faith experiences, my head says Catholicism all the way. It is so clear from scripture that Christ founded a visible church, and that this church was meant to last the ages, because Christ–not imperfect man–is the head.

 

[MacQ]

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. My local parish said their program runs from Sep-May. That wouldn’t be ongoing…Come to think of it, I do believe I heard the term “ongoing” to describe the RCIA program of different parish. I’m assuming that an ongoing one allows you to spend as much time in RCIA as possible, you don’t have to convert on the Sep-May timeline.

Perhaps more than anything, I’m just interested in getting started! Thanks for clarifying that RCIA programs run on different time schedules and that there are indeed some that go year round.

Just to clarify something about RCIA “schedules”…I’m not sure what was meant by “ongoing”. In a sense, they’re all ongoing. Perhaps you were asking about whether you could join at any time.

There may be more informal processes in some parishes, but here’s how a formal RCIA program works most places: new groups and sessions (classes) typically start up in September and are supposed to run through Pentecost. The process is geared for the opportunity to come into communion with the church (become catholic) at Easter. However, there is NEVER a requirement to do so on that specific timeline or in fact at all.

The “starting in september” is just practical…classes are like a curriculum… as people enquiring in the faith need information and the opportunity to ask questions in order to make informed decisions. So it’s a practical matter that Directors design the classes and sessions that way…engaging speakers, preparing materials, etc. There are various rites and other activities that prepare those who elect to come in at Easter, but again, that’s not required to continue.
So, the formal process like taking a course, and it’s good to participate in it from the beginning.

So, altho most directors wouldn’t tell you in December that it’s too late, right now, most RCIA programs are wrapping up with their new catholics, and most directors would probably say why not plan to start in Sept!
Why not make plans now to start in September!

 

[onegirlinchrist]

Just to clarify something about RCIA “schedules”…I’m not sure what was meant by “ongoing”. In a sense, they’re all ongoing. Perhaps you were asking about whether you could join at any time.

There may be more informal processes in some parishes, but here’s how a formal RCIA program works most places: new groups and sessions (classes) typically start up in September and are supposed to run through Pentecost. The process is geared for the opportunity to come into communion with the church (become catholic) at Easter. However, there is NEVER a requirement to do so on that specific timeline or in fact at all.

The “starting in september” is just practical…classes are like a curriculum… as people enquiring in the faith need information and the opportunity to ask questions in order to make informed decisions. So it’s a practical matter that Directors design the classes and sessions that way…engaging speakers, preparing materials, etc. There are various rites and other activities that prepare those who elect to come in at Easter, but again, that’s not required to continue.
So, the formal process like taking a course, and it’s good to participate in it from the beginning.

So, altho most directors wouldn’t tell you in December that it’s too late, right now, most RCIA programs are wrapping up with their new catholics, and most directors would probably say why not plan to start in Sept!
Why not make plans now to start in September!

Ahah! Thank you, that clears things up. I wondered if there was an RCIA program that somehow went year-round. (What I meant by “ongoing”.) It makes perfect sense why RCIA would happen on a Sep-Pentacost schedule per the reasons you explained. Definitely planning on participating in September!

 

[CarolNoel]

In our parish you can join any time during the year not just the month of September. We go all year. Don’t want to miss anyone

 

[MacQ]

Ahah! Thank you, that clears things up. I wondered if there was an RCIA program that somehow went year-round. (What I meant by “ongoing”.) It makes perfect sense why RCIA would happen on a Sep-Pentacost schedule per the reasons you explained. Definitely planning on participating in September!

:extrahappy:
Yay!
I wish you blessings and Godspeed!

 

[Della]

Again, thank you! I know what you mean about coming to trust the Church’s authority. While my emotions can pull me back towards other Christian faith experiences, my head says Catholicism all the way. It is so clear from scripture that Christ founded a visible church, and that this church was meant to last the ages, because Christ–not imperfect man–is the head.

I think most converts come into the Church via intellect first, heart second. I did. We’ve had our lives so invested in our former communities and their cultures that it takes time to acclimate to new sensibilities. If you wish to get into heart matters you should find a devotion that speaks to you, such as devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus or Our Lady some other such devotion. You may wish to read some of the more affective saints, such as St. Therese of Lisieux to get a feel for Catholic spirituality.

Also, to help you become familiar with the Church seasons/saints/feasts days you might want to pray the Divine Office/Liturgy of the Hours, which is the official daily prayer of the Church. Most lay people pray Morning and Evening Prayer and perhaps Night Prayer (Compline). Another practice that may help is reading the Daily Mass Readings. Know that these are meant as helps to your faith. You are not obliged to do any devotion or particular set of prayers. Only Masses of obligation, such as Sundays/Saturday Vigil are required.