Evangelizing and Multiple Marriage and Divorce Question

[deanarrca]

Hi I don’t know much about the divorce in the Catholic church, but I have two wonderful friends who I have been sharing the gospel with and would love to invite to church. I know the inviting to church isn’t the sticky part. One area I haven’t really touched on with them is the divorce issue. They both have been married 3 times. Hypothetically if they wanted to at some point become Catholic could they? First naive question on my part. would they then have to get two annulments for each of there precious two marriages. This marriage divorce business makes things way too complicated. In my one friends case I think her first marriage would be considered valid. They were both baptized protestant Christians and got married in a protestant church. But in the protestant churches I have been too divorce is rampant and marriage not treated as the commitment it should be. I also feel in America Catholic annulments are given out like candy and treated just as a formality and probably given out wrongly in a lot of instances. But protestants (and I am speaking from an ex- Baptist standpoint)in practice take divorce very casually. So you could say my friend’s first marriage could have been entered into with the mindset of if it doesn’t work out we can always get a divorce which they did. Her second marriage was not in a church but to a creep that was abusive, violent and a thief and now is in jail. Third husband a baptized Catholic but non practicing and they were not married in a church. My one friend currently a very lapsed Baptist. She was raised as a child as Baptist and her first marriage was in a Baptist church., but other than that she hasn’t been in a church in over 20 years.
The subject hasn’t come up yet. But I was just wondering how a Catholic Christian should share the gospel when it eventually will come to this. Just curious about any insights anyone has.

 

[1ke]

Yes, it is difficult to share the truth with people when the truth is hard. The truth about marriage and divorce is no different than the truth about contraception, homosexuality, or any other sexual truth that is difficult because secular society tried to make all sin “ok”/

Regarding their prior marriages, if they are currently in a marriage then yes they would have to have their irregular marriage situation resolved before they could enter the Church. If they have been married multiple times but are currently unmarried and plan to stay that way, then examination of prior marriages is not strictly necessary.

This chart may be helpful along with the book Annulment: The Wedding That Was by Michael Smith Foster.

diocs.org/Portals/1/Documents/Tribunal/Decision_matrix.pdf

You, too, seem to have some misconceptions about the nullity process. Unless you have some facts, your “handed out like candy” comment is really insulting to the hard-working men and women of the diocesan tribunals.

 

[deanarrca]

Sorry didn’t mean to be insulting. And I am sure I have a lot of wrong facts. I am a recent convert as well so yes there is a lot I don’t know. So I apologize for that comment. I have read that annulments are much rarer in other countries. But I guess it would be natural to have many more annulments here because divorce is so rampant here in America and there are many converts to the church. But again I apologize for that rude comment about annulments being like candy. It was a not well thought out and simply flippant remark. I really should proof my posts better before I hit the send button.
Deeny

 

[revert_jen]

Sorry didn’t mean to be insulting. And I am sure I have a lot of wrong facts.

God bless you for the great virtue of humility. Welcome to the Church!

I think there was a time when many questionable annulments were given out in certain dioceses. But that time was probably 20-30 years ago. The problem is, someone sees an article somewhere and remembers it forever, and they never see an article that tells them the situation is over because a) it’s a gradual process, and b) “Dioceses not giving out too many annulments any more” doesn’t sound like a really juicy news story. Anyway, these people that read the article tell you stuff and so the story gets perpetuated.

Then 1ke comes along and fixes it.

The thing to keep in mind when dealing with divorced non-Catholics is that the Catholic Church is not deciding that the people aren’t married validly, it is pointing out an existing fact. Remembering this helps you feel less defensive. There is generally no blame attached, as people weren’t intentionally doing anything wrong. Of course we have to be very gentle and keep in mind that God knows their situation much better than we do. A lot of times, the best thing we can say is to ask them to pray about it, and of course send them to a priest if they are interested in discussing the practicalities.

–Jen

 

[revert_jen]

This chart may be helpful along with the book Annulment: The Wedding That Was by Michael Smith Foster.

diocs.org/Portals/1/Documents/Tribunal/Decision_matrix.pdf

I looked at the chart and (after looking up what ligamen meant) became curious.

Say two protestants are married in a church. Then they divorce and marry other people in a church.

If one of them later divorces and wants to marry a practicing Catholic, how does that work? If they can get an annulment for the first marriage (formal process) do they then have to go through the formal process for the second marriage? Because it seems now that they weren’t validly married when they contracted the second marriage. Or would the declaration of nullity have to have happened before the second marriage took place?

I’m just curious about it and I thought you might know.

–Jen

 

[maltmom]

I looked at the chart and (after looking up what ligamen meant) became curious.

Say two protestants are married in a church. Then they divorce and marry other people in a church.

If one of them later divorces and wants to marry a practicing Catholic, how does that work? If they can get an annulment for the first marriage (formal process) do they then have to go through the formal process for the second marriage? Because it seems now that they weren’t validly married when they contracted the second marriage. Or would the declaration of nullity have to have happened before the second marriage took place?

I’m just curious about it and I thought you might know.

–Jen

The decree of nullity for the 1st marriage then makes the 2nd valid. A decree of nullity has to be obtained before the person can marry for the 3rd time.

I have filed for a ligamen. My ex-husband was married a number of times before we married. It was my 1st. We were both Baptist, not married in the church. I am now Catholic. I am not dating anyone. I’m not even sure I’d ever want to remarry. I do know that God has a plan for me in that regard. I want to be free if someone comes along.

My heart breaks for those who want to be received by the Church and have divorces and remarriages to settle before they can. I now understand why my priest repeatedly asked me about my relationship status post-divorce.

 

[Catholic1954]

Hi I don’t know much about the divorce in the Catholic church, but I have two wonderful friends who I have been sharing the gospel with and would love to invite to church. I know the inviting to church isn’t the sticky part. One area I haven’t really touched on with them is the divorce issue. They both have been married 3 times. Hypothetically if they wanted to at some point become Catholic could they? First naive question on my part. would they then have to get two annulments for each of there precious two marriages. This marriage divorce business makes things way too complicated. In my one friends case I think her first marriage would be considered valid. They were both baptized protestant Christians and got married in a protestant church. But in the protestant churches I have been too divorce is rampant and marriage not treated as the commitment it should be. I also feel in America Catholic annulments are given out like candy and treated just as a formality and probably given out wrongly in a lot of instances. But protestants (and I am speaking from an ex- Baptist standpoint)in practice take divorce very casually. So you could say my friend’s first marriage could have been entered into with the mindset of if it doesn’t work out we can always get a divorce which they did. Her second marriage was not in a church but to a creep that was abusive, violent and a thief and now is in jail. Third husband a baptized Catholic but non practicing and they were not married in a church. My one friend currently a very lapsed Baptist. She was raised as a child as Baptist and her first marriage was in a Baptist church., but other than that she hasn’t been in a church in over 20 years.
The subject hasn’t come up yet. But I was just wondering how a Catholic Christian should share the gospel when it eventually will come to this. Just curious about any insights anyone has.

It is a little early to be concerned about your friends martial status and the Catholic Church. Divorced/remarried or not they would be most welcome to attend Mass anytime as your guest and you can freely share your faith as questions come up. If or when they decide the Catholic Church is for them, THEN they will have to make an appointment with a priest to discuss marriage annulments before receiving the Sacraments.

 

[revert_jen]

The decree of nullity for the 1st marriage then makes the 2nd valid. A decree of nullity has to be obtained before the person can marry for the 3rd time.

Thanks! It makes sense that it would work that way, but it would surely be a long and painful process.

I have filed for a ligamen. My ex-husband was married a number of times before we married. It was my 1st. We were both Baptist, not married in the church. I am now Catholic. I am not dating anyone. I’m not even sure I’d ever want to remarry. I do know that God has a plan for me in that regard. I want to be free if someone comes along.

I know what you mean. I’m a baptized Catholic who was married outside the Church (without permission) and divorced, and when I came back to the Church, I went ahead and got the decree of lack of form, not because I was dating, just because I wanted everything to be set up properly. Plus, I just wanted the records to reflect reality. Nobody wants to be “half-married.”

My heart breaks for those who want to be received by the Church and have divorces and remarriages to settle before they can. I now understand why my priest repeatedly asked me about my relationship status post-divorce.

It is so sad for many reasons that so many people get divorced. I don’t know how people manage, when they re convinced that the teachings of the Church are true, and that means that the person they’ve thought of as their spoouse may not actually be. May God help each of them get through the struggle.

When I came back to the Church, the priest went on for a good while about how I might be committing never to marry, and I didn’t really know anything about annulments or decrees of lack of form, so I didn’t know that in the end it would be quite easy for me. Deciding that the Eucharist and the other sacraments were worth the sacrifice was the best decision I ever made, and I’m grateful that I had the opportunity to make it without knowing whether I’d ever be able to marry again.

Welcome to the Church!

–Jen

 

[1ke]

I looked at the chart and (after looking up what ligamen meant) became curious.

Say two protestants are married in a church. Then they divorce and marry other people in a church.

If one of them later divorces and wants to marry a practicing Catholic, how does that work? If they can get an annulment for the first marriage (formal process) do they then have to go through the formal process for the second marriage? Because it seems now that they weren’t validly married when they contracted the second marriage. Or would the declaration of nullity have to have happened before the second marriage took place?

I’m just curious about it and I thought you might know.

–Jen

Yes, both marriages would need to be examined.

When you are the one married twice, it is not a Ligamen case.

 

[maltmom]

Thanks! It makes sense that it would work that way, but it would surely be a long and painful process.

I know what you mean. I’m a baptized Catholic who was married outside the Church (without permission) and divorced, and when I came back to the Church, I went ahead and got the decree of lack of form, not because I was dating, just because I wanted everything to be set up properly. Plus, I just wanted the records to reflect reality. Nobody wants to be “half-married.”

It is so sad for many reasons that so many people get divorced. I don’t know how people manage, when they re convinced that the teachings of the Church are true, and that means that the person they’ve thought of as their spoouse may not actually be. May God help each of them get through the struggle.

When I came back to the Church, the priest went on for a good while about how I might be committing never to marry, and I didn’t really know anything about annulments or decrees of lack of form, so I didn’t know that in the end it would be quite easy for me. Deciding that the Eucharist and the other sacraments were worth the sacrifice was the best decision I ever made, and I’m grateful that I had the opportunity to make it without knowing whether I’d ever be able to marry again.

Welcome to the Church!

–Jen

Thank you Jen. I checked my mail on my way to Mass this afternoon. My final decree of nullity has been granted. It only took 3 weeks. I think God this is behind me.