Evangelizing Baptists

[MrS]

We don’t! A Baptist board of deacons can not fire a pastor. Baptist churches are always training people to go into the world to start new Baptist churches. we have had great success doing this in Brazil.

I checked out the Catholic Church and want no part of its errors

Proud to be baptist
allischalmers

yep they are active in Brazil… my son went down there to paint a church… bless him

Baptists will never attain the success of the Catholic Church in evangelizing, in caregiving, in social justice.

Some day… if you ever become steeped in history, you will cease to be protestant… A Baptist or any other faith community.

Humbled to be Catholic
Mr S

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[Legal_Eagle]

Evangelizing Baptists, so long as they hold to traditional Baptist views, is next to impossible.

Baptists believe that the Holy Spirit will guide them, and anyone sincerely seeking guidance, into a right understanding of Scripture. Thus, they absolutely reject any authority regarding the proper understanding of Scripture outside their own personal opinions. Preachers, scholars, or other religious teachers are authoritative only to the extent that the individual Baptist agrees with that preacher or teacher. This applies with equal force to those things that were taught by the Church Fathers less than 200 years after Pentecost, or what any Church authority says today. If the individual Baptist believes that John 6 is to be taken metaphorically, then a metaphor it is. Who cares what Ignatius of Antioch, Irenaeus, St. Justin Martyr or Benedict XVI has to say? Baptists believe that their own opinions regarding doctrine are infallible, so they need no other authority.

This applies to every aspect of Catholic doctrine. They themselves individually don’t believe in X, therefore X cannot be true. They see no particular value in Church unity either. If a Presbyterian believes in pre-destination and they believe in Salvation by faith alone, so be it. Authoritatively resolving division, especially if that authority disagrees with their own opinions, is just really not that important.

In my humble opinion, this is a fatal flaw in their theology. Unless you are able overcome that, attempting to evangelize a baptist is like doing this -----> :banghead:

I know there are some Baptists out there–set me straight if I’m wrong.

 

[allischalmers]

Evangelizing Baptists, so long as they hold to traditional Baptist views, is next to impossible.

Baptists believe that the Holy Spirit will guide them, and anyone sincerely seeking guidance, into a right understanding of Scripture. Thus, they absolutely reject any authority regarding the proper understanding of Scripture outside their own personal opinions. Preachers, scholars, or other religious teachers are authoritative only to the extent that the individual Baptist agrees with that preacher or teacher. This applies with equal force to those things that were taught by the Church Fathers less than 200 years after Pentecost, or what any Church authority says today. If the individual Baptist believes that John 6 is to be taken metaphorically, then a metaphor it is. Who cares what Ignatius of Antioch, Irenaeus, St. Justin Martyr or Benedict XVI has to say? Baptists believe that their own opinions regarding doctrine are infallible, so they need no other authority.

This applies to every aspect of Catholic doctrine. They themselves individually don’t believe in X, therefore X cannot be true. They see no particular value in Church unity either. If a Presbyterian believes in pre-destination and they believe in Salvation by faith alone, so be it. Authoritatively resolving division, especially if that authority disagrees with their own opinions, is just really not that important.

In my humble opinion, this is a fatal flaw in their theology. Unless you are able overcome that, attempting to evangelize a baptist is like doing this -----> :banghead:

I know there are some Baptists out there–set me straight if I’m wrong.

You are wrong pure annd simple

proud to be Baptist
allischalmers

 

[Legal_Eagle]

You are wrong pure annd simple

Ok. How so?

 

[heisenburg]

I jsut want to simply say becareful not to over simplify the Baptist position. Though i disagree with many of their beliefs, not all baptists believe the same. Some are OSASers, others arent. Some are pretrib people, others post. Point is, the Baptist denom is a very VERY diverse group of subdenoms and you cant address all baptists by any single statement.
Again though, it gets back to a frequented topic on why would Christ have so many differing churches with varying beliefs.

If there is a unifying belief, it would probably be closest to OSAS, though not all baptists believe this. In general though, it is the most common.

Persoanlly, I’ve read the bible countless times, and have never been able to come up with a valid reason scripturally where OSAS is. Though I dont believe in bible alone, im always temted to say… well… where is OSAS in the bible. Keep in mind, it must be an understanding that cant contradict anything else in the bible. and any idea of OSAS immediatly contradicts the parable of the Vine.

Where the jews are removed, you will be grafted in, but jsut as you have been grafted in, so to can you be removed and thrown into the fire. (not an exact quote, but close)

How can you have OSAS if Jesus himself says that you can be removed. How can you be removed if you were “never a true branch anyway”

Anyway… I digress. the original point was jsut becareful when lumping Baptists into a single group. Its not really possible, though they all profess to be baptist. Just like you cant lump all protestants in the ame group.

As a note of humor, anyone ever looked into the history of the founder of the Baptist Movement? John Smyth…
Started as an Anglican, decided it wasnt right…
Founded the Baptist Denom…
Initialy felt reading the bible in service was BAD…
Later, decided Baptists werent right, and became a minnonite and actually TRIED to have the Baptist denom become minnonite…

Anyway, jsut always thought it was funny how the person that came up with the rules and regulations for “baptists” didnt even think it was right!

Source
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Smyth_(1570-1612

In Christ

 

[allischalmers]

When do Baptists teach the fullness of truth? Back when they taught dispensationalism, or now when they don’t? If dispensationalism is wrong then if Baptists are teaching it, then the Baptist tradition cannot be the fullness of truth when it did. So my question to you Mr. Chalmers is: When did the Baptists stop teaching error and start teaching the truth?

Many Baptist Churches stopped teaching dispensationalism mainly because of the lak of interest in it not because it is in error. Dispensationalism is just a study of how God dealt with different groups of people at different times in history.

I would say that it is no different than the Catholic church saying that it is a sin to eat meat on Friday and the changing the mind and saying it is no longer a sin to eat meat on Friday. When did Catholics stop teaching error and start teaching the truth

forever Baptist
allischalmers

 

[Legal_Eagle]

…not all baptists believe the same. Some are OSASers, others arent. Some are pretrib people, others post. Point is, the Baptist denom is a very VERY diverse group of subdenoms and you cant address all baptists by any single statement.

Thus confirming my position. If an individual Baptist doesn’t personally agree with the position of a particular preacher or teacher then the preacher or teacher is wrong. It’s the individual’s own opinion that is infallible. Thus the widely differing doctrinal views among people who call themselves, Baptists. If Brother Smith isn’t in agreement with Brother Jones, and if Brother Smith has more members on his side, then Brother Jones is out. No problem, though. Brother Jones just starts his own church (or ecclesial community if you perfer). All those agreeing with Brother Smith stay put. All those agreeing with Brother Jones go to the new church.

Thus the :banghead: with trying to evangelize Baptists. The standard is not Truth. The standard is personal opinion.

 

[Legal_Eagle]

I would say that it is no different than the Catholic church saying that it is a sin to eat meat on Friday and the changing the mind and saying it is no longer a sin to eat meat on Friday. When did Catholics stop teaching error and start teaching the truth

See…here we go :banghead:

It was never a sin to eat meat on Friday in the same way that it is (and will forever be) a sin to commit adultry. The Church directed the faithful to abstain from meat on Friday as penance, and in memory of the Passion. This was a dicipline imposed by the Church not a doctrine. The sin was in violating Church dicipline, not in eating meat per se. Violating Church dicipline is, was and will forever be a sin. 500 years from now we may be abstaining from meat every day except Easter. Who knows? The meat and the calendar are not the point. The point is observance of the dicipline.

 

[rtconstant]

He doesn’t! I have been a Sunday School Superintendent iin a Baptist chruch for a good number of years and have studied the material provided by all the publishers for Baptist Sunday Schools and there is NO contradiction.

I think you did not understand what he was asking. I think that the question was in regards to the many different Baptist denominations within the Baptist movement. Some are similar some are very different. Also the Sunday School Board really isn’t an indicator of doctrine. The SSB is simply a non-authoritative, indirect extension of the Southern Baptist Convention. It will usually demonstrate the Theology of the Annually appointed representatives and President of the SBC. In theory at least.

The problem here is that since everything in the Southern Baptist Church is democratically appointed any Theology can prevail (albeit with limites). This is why there was the controversy of the 70’s and 80’s when the Convention was liberal. Seminaries were teaching liberal theology. Eventually conservatives were able to reistablish their primacy though they immediately had to go into conflict with Fundamentalists.

Which brings up the problem at a National level. Since all that it takes to vote in the Convention is to pay the fees into the Convention. As such people from out side of the denomination such as Jerry Falwell can vote.

Now don’t get me wrong some things are beyond question. Southern Baptists do have core doctrine. SF, SS and OSAS are core tenents.

We don’t! A Baptist board of deacons can not fire a pastor. Baptist churches are always training people to go into the world to start new Baptist churches. we have had great success doing this in Brazil.

This is technically true. The board of Deacons does not in and of itself have that authority. Though they are often the ones that get the ball rolling. It is the congregation which releases a Pastor by vote.

While it is true that the Southern Baptist Church via the cooperative program is able to put out a very well organized and funded mission force (probably the strongest in the Protestant movement). I think that the question that was being posed has less to do with missions than with the fact that often when a Pastor is released from a congregation part of the congregation may move with the Pastor and sometimes this results in a new Church.

Of course. Freewillers also believe in osas

Actually that isn’t so. Free Will Baptist are Arminian and so reject OSAS as do the General and Separate Baptists.

I checked out the Catholic Church and want no part of its errors

You should look into that a little deeper.

 

[allischalmers]

Thus confirming my position. If an individual Baptist doesn’t personally agree with the position of a particular preacher or teacher then the preacher or teacher is wrong. It’s the individual’s own opinion that is infallible. Thus the widely differing doctrinal views among people who call themselves, Baptists. If Brother Smith isn’t in agreement with Brother Jones, and if Brother Smith has more members on his side, then Brother Jones is out. No problem, though. Brother Jones just starts his own church (or ecclesial community if you perfer). All those agreeing with Brother Smith stay put. All those agreeing with Brother Jones go to the new church.

Thus the :banghead: with trying to evangelize Baptists. The standard is not Truth. The standard is personal opinion.

and you are still wrong

 

[Legal_Eagle]

and you are still wrong

At the risk of us going round and round for days with this…how so?