Evangelizing in a City with an Old Catholic church

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Howdy everyone.

Story: I’m starting my journey with Saint Paul Street Evangelization in Dallas. Right now I’m evangelizing with the Uptown group and both times I’ve been have been invigorating and I can see this as a long term calling and have gotten some push to plan evangelizing in my home city of Rockwall, Texas.

Question: In my home town there is an Old Catholic church. Does anyone have any experience answer questions from people about the Old Catholics or maybe who are Old Catholics while doing street evangelization?

I’ve read pretty much everything I could find here, on Canon Code Made Easy, and wikipedia, as well as the Old Catholic Church websites themselves. But I still have questions about them that I don’t know I could answer. Specifically the scenario I have in my head is someone asking me a question like: “Well aren’t they Catholic?” or “If the sacrament is valid, then who cares?”

Additional question that might be somewhere in the apologetics section but I couldn’t find it:

If the sacrament is valid but illicit, what happens to the person who receives it, especially if they are in full knowledge that it is illicit?

I’ve tried to find the answer to this question but just keep getting: “Valid means the sacrament took place and illicit means it was illegal.” And yeah, I get that, but if something is illegal then it means there is typically some punishment. For instance, is it a sin to receive a sacrament illicitly? Venial or mortal? I’m just looking for a good answer to “Why does it matter?”

Thank you for the help!
 
Question: In my home town there is an Old Catholic church. Does anyone have any experience answer questions from people about the Old Catholics or maybe who are Old Catholics while doing street evangelization? ***There is an Old Catholic Church down the street from me. But you have to understand that they are all different. Some (though not many in the US) are faithful the old Latin Mass, but many (if not most today) are simply liberalized Churches. At the “Old Catholic Church” near me, the Bishop there is a homosexual who was kicked out of the Archdiocese years ago (not sure if he was ordained or kicked out the Seminary, I don’t remember. Regardless, they ordain female deacons and apparently don’t have an issue with many sexual sins. ***

I’ve read pretty much everything I could find here, on Canon Code Made Easy, and wikipedia, as well as the Old Catholic Church websites themselves. But I still have questions about them that I don’t know I could answer. Specifically the scenario I have in my head is someone asking me a question like: “Well aren’t they Catholic?” or “If the sacrament is valid, then who cares?” Unlike the Orthodox, the problem with the Old Catholics is that some of them have embraced heretical positions.

Additional question that might be somewhere in the apologetics section but I couldn’t find it:

If the sacrament is valid but illicit, what happens to the person who receives it, especially if they are in full knowledge that it is illicit? Objectively, they are sinning. But subjectively, only God knows

I’ve tried to find the answer to this question but just keep getting: “Valid means the sacrament took place and illicit means it was illegal.” And yeah, I get that, but if something is illegal then it means there is typically some punishment. For instance, is it a sin to receive a sacrament illicitly? Venial or mortal? I’m just looking for a good answer to “Why does it matter?” ***Only baptized Catholics who switch to the Old Catholic Church are in schism.

The best approach in my opinion is to ask questions and figure out why they are not in communion with the Holy Father. Is it simply the traditional issue, that they do not believe in Papal Infallibility? Or is it due to issues of sexual morality?

God Bless
 
Well, since you’re in the US they would be an independent “Old Catholic” church. (In the US the Old Catholics established the Polish National Catholic Church back in the day, but that’s beside the point because they aren’t related to each other any more.)

So … frankly can’t really say too much. Maybe motley.
 
houstinhobby said:
Howdy everyone.

Story: I’m starting my journey with Saint Paul Street Evangelization in Dallas. Right now I’m evangelizing with the Uptown group and both times I’ve been have been invigorating and I can see this as a long term calling and have gotten some push to plan evangelizing in my home city of Rockwall, Texas.

Question: In my home town there is an Old Catholic church. Does anyone have any experience answer questions from people about the Old Catholics or maybe who are Old Catholics while doing street evangelization?

I’ve read pretty much everything I could find here, on Canon Code Made Easy, and wikipedia, as well as the Old Catholic Church websites themselves. But I still have questions about them that I don’t know I could answer. Specifically the scenario I have in my head is someone asking me a question like: “Well aren’t they Catholic?” or “If the sacrament is valid, then who cares?”

Additional question that might be somewhere in the apologetics section but I couldn’t find it:

If the sacrament is valid but illicit, what happens to the person who receives it, especially if they are in full knowledge that it is illicit?

I’ve tried to find the answer to this question but just keep getting: “Valid means the sacrament took place and illicit means it was illegal.” And yeah, I get that, but if something is illegal then it means there is typically some punishment. For instance, is it a sin to receive a sacrament illicitly? Venial or mortal? I’m just looking for a good answer to “Why does it matter?”

Thank you for the help!
Click to expand...
I doubt you will find many people who even know what the old catholics are. I wouldn’t be overly worried about it.

they are just another group who split from the church due to differing opinions on the pope’s authority. they accept everything up to the first Vatican counsel.

very similar to the sspx, except they don’t accept anything after pope st. pius x.

it simply boils down to that they think they know better than future popes that come along
 
Thanks for doing street evangelization. I think it is a great thing and it would be wonderful if more people did it.
houstinhobby said:
I’ve read pretty much everything I could find here, on Canon Code Made Easy, and wikipedia, as well as the Old Catholic Church websites themselves. But I still have questions about them that I don’t know I could answer. Specifically the scenario I have in my head is someone asking me a question like: “Well aren’t they Catholic?” or “If the sacrament is valid, then who cares?”
Click to expand...
As for them being Catholic I’d say they were and left the Catholic Church. I’d point out this has been going on since the beginning of the Church. Some people have rejected particular doctrine. They’ve found it hard to understand or accept, or just don’t like it. They want to make the Church in their image.

You could use this as an opportunity to point out the difficulty of the Bible alone as a rule of faith. You could also use this as an opportunity to show how quickly those who leave the unity of the Church can go astray. You could point out they left over papal infallibility but soon after started abandoning many other doctrines. The same thing has occurred in every other group that leaves the Church.
houstinhobby said:
If the sacrament is valid but illicit, what happens to the person who receives it, especially if they are in full knowledge that it is illicit?

I’ve tried to find the answer to this question but just keep getting: “Valid means the sacrament took place and illicit means it was illegal.” And yeah, I get that, but if something is illegal then it means there is typically some punishment. For instance, is it a sin to receive a sacrament illicitly? Venial or mortal? I’m just looking for a good answer to “Why does it matter?”
Click to expand...
I’m not sure about the answer to this but I suspect it is a sin to receive a sacrament you know and believe to be illicit. You would be participating in something that violates the authority of the Church. This is a good question and might get the best answer in another sub forum. Maybe try the liturgy and sacraments section since a few priests often participate in that sub forum.
 
Thank you everyone for the help. Below are some further questions/replies.

"There is an Old Catholic Church down the street from me. But you have to understand that they are all different. Some (though not many in the US) are faithful the old Latin Mass, but many (if not most today) are simply liberalized Churches. At the “Old Catholic Church” near me, the Bishop there is a homosexual who was kicked out of the Archdiocese years ago (not sure if he was ordained or kicked out the Seminary, I don’t remember. Regardless, they ordain female deacons and apparently don’t have an issue with many sexual sins. "

That jives well with what I have seen. I think this church is relatively faithful, but I don’t know the history of the founding or the claimed apostolic succession and I guess I won’t unless I ask them. The other potential issue is that 10-15 years ago there was a Roman Catholic Priest in my home town that was having a homosexual relationship with the choir director. He was defrocked, and I have been told he fully abandoned Christianity, but I have a feeling the scandal may have caused the establishment of the Old Catholic Church, but I don’t know if he was involved or not.

“Only baptized Catholics who switch to the Old Catholic Church are in schism.”

What’s the problem with being in schism? Is it an excommunicative act, whereby their souls are in peril, or is it more a sin…in which case their souls are in peril. I guess I answered myself on that one, but it would be good to know which “technical” term to have at the ready.

“I doubt you will find many people who even know what the old catholics are. I wouldn’t be overly worried about it.”

As the “Good Catholic” guy at work, I’ve already been asked about them by the other Catholics at work. On top of that, they have a really good website ( saintmatthias.net/ ) that makes a lot of seemingly inaccurate claims as to validity. Basically: if you search Rockwall, TX and Catholic on Google they are oftentimes the Number 1 hit, and not Our Lady of the Lake which is the Roman Catholic Church. I’m almost sure that people have accidentally gone to that church thinking it is a Roman Catholic Church.

Thank you all again!
 
On their website, they make it sound like they are a parish of the Old Catholic Union of Utrect, but I find that highly unlikely.
 
From their website, I found the website of their denomination.

amcath.org

The history section is filled with a number of half truths and lots of twisting the truth.

They also only recognize the first 7 councils (so they stopped believing in the ones that were ratified before their split with the Church.
 
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