Everyone Has An Excuse For Not Wanting To Become A Catholic.

[kell0618]

Some of us stay in our own religion because (amazingly enough), we believe it to be the truth, and we are happy here.

Only those who are unhappy in their religion go searching elsewhere.

As for the idea that Catholicism is “hard”, I feel Orthodox Judaism is much harder!

The things Catholics find “hard” about Catholicism (no artificial birth control, no divorce, no abortion, etc) would not at all be a problem for me because I have never used artificial birth control (only NFP), do not believe in abortion, and am opposed to divorce except in the hardest of situations.

My reason for not being Catholic is: I believe in Judaism, I believe I have an obligation to follow the One God and do what He says, and even if I did not feel a loyalty to Judaism, I could never be Catholic because some of the beliefs I find personally distasteful (notably the transubstantiation issue and the obedience issue.)

Hello

As I said:

Some people outright disagree with many Church teachings, but there are countless others…

It was my hope to include folks in your position in the highlighted portion of my sentence.

God be with you

Kelly

 

[catholiconce]

Then why does 1Timothy 3:15 say “The church is the pillar of truth”?
If it is just a building? Would you like about 20 more quotes that states how important the church really is? The church is an organization. A “visible” one as Jesus has himself stated.

“The Church " is the pillar of truth. A christian church Where do you get Only Catholics are Christians out of that? Why because Jesus gave peter the keys to the kingdome ? Then the Roman Catholic Church says oh by the way our first Pope was named Peter ? Where is a pope first mentioned in Scripture? " Oh it is not in the bible it is tradtion” Well when does tradition start and when does a practice stop being a practice and start being tradition. How do you then define vatican II and the changes made were those rituals and practices not tradition at the Time? We can all of a sudden say Mass in the Common language in the mid 1960’s But If a priest says mass in German in the 1500s he is a heritic. So where is the tradition?

 

[fbl9]

“The Church " is the pillar of truth. A christian church Where do you get Only Catholics are Christians out of that? Why because Jesus gave peter the keys to the kingdome ? Then the Roman Catholic Church says oh by the way our first Pope was named Peter ? Where is a pope first mentioned in Scripture? " Oh it is not in the bible it is tradtion” Well when does tradition start and when does a practice stop being a practice and start being tradition. How do you then define vatican II and the changes made were those rituals and practices not tradition at the Time? We can all of a sudden say Mass in the Common language in the mid 1960’s But If a priest says mass in German in the 1500s he is a heritic. So where is the tradition?

and where is your church by name mentioned in scripture? nowhere so by your reasoning neither is your church, the true church.oh you say we follow the bible.but the bible didn’t exist as a whole until the 400 yr after Christ’s ascension.but we follow the teachings of the apostle’s.do you have a copy of all of what the apostles taught. no you don’t ,then you are left with trusting the man at the pulpit aren’t you?

 

[Madaglan]

This thread is only meant to stir up trouble. :tsktsk:

Really, this is just going to be another mountain of abuse. Non-Catholics will answer, truthfully, but they will not give the answers wanted. Most non-Catholics here will not say something silly like “I’m not becoming Catholic because it will damage my reputation,” or, “I’m not becoming Catholic because my family would disagree,” etc.

Most non-Catholics who here respond will likely (in my estimation) state that they believe what they believe is true, and that Catholicism is not a serious consideration; they just want to learn more about it (in the same way that many Americans want to learn more about Islam, but not necessarily to convert). Of course, this response of the non-Catholic is unacceptable. (they must be dishonest, hiding something ) And then the lambasting will begin: if you truly followed your heart, you would be Catholic. No words of love or any reasonable reasons given for why one should be Catholic and not any particular non-Catholic group; simply words of the nature of “if you were not blind, you would see,” and “submit or you will continue in your foolish error.”

 

[mozart-250]

Am participating in this thread against my better judgement. A few comments.

(1) The proposition in the title of this thread can logically be applied to every faith on the planet (everyone has an excuse for not wanting to become a (muslim, jew, scientologist, etc)). Since human beings are not omnipresent and faiths are generally mutually exclusive, the “excuse” for not belonging in faith “A” is because one is in faith “B”. Hardly an “excuse” methinks.

(2) All faiths have assumptions which are difficult (if not impossible to prove/disprove). That is why few if any are converted from one faith to another on the basis of a killer apologetic argument. The problem with religious debate is that assumptions are presented as facts.

(3) Generally people convert from faith ‘A’ to faith ‘B’ (neglecting impulsive conversions) because (a) somehow faith ‘B’ speaks to their soul in a way that faith ‘A’ does not or (b) they perceive faith ‘B’ spiritually to be superior.

Speaking to (3), I am currently quite content in my own faith that I don’t have any motivation to belong to another faith unless I somehow became convinced through observing faith ‘B’ in action through the lifestyles of those that practice this faith that faith ‘B’ is superior. From observing Catholics in action, I do not perceive their faith to be superior to mine.

 

[Righteousone]

“The Church " is the pillar of truth. A christian church Where do you get Only Catholics are Christians out of that? Why because Jesus gave peter the keys to the kingdome ? Then the Roman Catholic Church says oh by the way our first Pope was named Peter ? Where is a pope first mentioned in Scripture? " Oh it is not in the bible it is tradtion” Well when does tradition start and when does a practice stop being a practice and start being tradition. How do you then define vatican II and the changes made were those rituals and practices not tradition at the Time? We can all of a sudden say Mass in the Common language in the mid 1960’s But If a priest says mass in German in the 1500s he is a heritic. So where is the tradition?

When Jesus handed the keys to Peter and told him to start his churchJesus’s words were “Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, whatever you loose on earth, will be loosed in heaven”.
That is the papacy. Makes sense to me. I think you really ought to study your history instead of giving non-factual statements.

 

[Righteousone]

and where is your church by name mentioned in scripture? nowhere so by your reasoning neither is your church, the true church.oh you say we follow the bible.but the bible didn’t exist as a whole until the 400 yr after Christ’s ascension.but we follow the teachings of the apostle’s.do you have a copy of all of what the apostles taught. no you don’t ,then you are left with trusting the man at the pulpit aren’t you?

fb19, in the centuries following Christ’s death, their practices were thoroughly Catholic in belief. St. Ignatius said the word Catholic in the year 107. there were saints and martyrs, hundreds of them before any Protestant saw the light of day.
Eusebius wrote in “The Chronicle” (Ad An Dom 42) that Peter, after establishing the church at Antioch, went to Rome where he remained bishop of Rome for 25 years.
The church existed for many years from the time of death of Jesus on the cross in about 33 A.D. until the first book of the New Testament was written in about 51 A.D. The New Testament teaching during those years was none other than Tradition.
By the time that the last book of the NT was written around 100 A.D. the church which Jesus Christ founded was already on its fifth successor of Peter.

 

[catholiconce]

When Jesus handed the keys to Peter and told him to start his churchJesus’s words were “Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, whatever you loose on earth, will be loosed in heaven”.
That is the papacy. Makes sense to me. I think you really ought to study your history instead of giving non-factual statements.

Where do you get the papacy out of those very words ? As you claim I am an ignorant fool so show me oh Righteousone.

 

[Righteousone]

Where do you get the papacy out of those very words ? As you claim I am an ignorant fool so show me oh Righteousone.

Jesus is telling Peter, the authority of his church to rule the church in his absence. Those very words (think about them for a moment), Jesus is saying Peter must be put in charge of His church.
Just as when Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit on the apostles and said “**What sins you forgive are forgiven them, what sins you retain are retained”**This is ‘confession’ or ‘pennance’…don’t you see this? And if not how come?

 

[Righteousone]

Where do you get the papacy out of those very words ? As you claim I am an ignorant fool so show me oh Righteousone.

I’ve never even used those words “ignorant fool”, but it is you that say you are. Not I.

 

[wisdomseeker]

“The Church " is the pillar of truth. A christian church Where do you get Only Catholics are Christians out of that? Why because Jesus gave peter the keys to the kingdome ? Then the Roman Catholic Church says oh by the way our first Pope was named Peter ? Where is a pope first mentioned in Scripture? " Oh it is not in the bible it is tradtion” Well when does tradition start and when does a practice stop being a practice and start being tradition. How do you then define vatican II and the changes made were those rituals and practices not tradition at the Time? We can all of a sudden say Mass in the Common language in the mid 1960’s But If a priest says mass in German in the 1500s he is a heritic. So where is the tradition?

“It is therefore, the Catholic Church alone which retains true worship. This is the fountain of truth; this, the domicile of faith; this the temple of GOD. Whoever does not enter there or whoever does not go out from here, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation… Because, however, all the various groups of heretics are confident that they are the Christians, and think that theirs is the Catholic Church, let it be known: that is the true Church, in which there is confession and penance, and which takes a salubrious care of sins and wounds to which the weak flesh is subject.”
Lactantius, The Divine Institutions, 304 A.D…

:bowdown2:

 

[wisdomseeker]

Am participating in this thread against my better judgement. A few comments.

(1) The proposition in the title of this thread can logically be applied to every faith on the planet (everyone has an excuse for not wanting to become a (muslim, jew, scientologist, etc)). Since human beings are not omnipresent and faiths are generally mutually exclusive, the “excuse” for not belonging in faith “A” is because one is in faith “B”. Hardly an “excuse” methinks.

(2) All faiths have assumptions which are difficult (if not impossible to prove/disprove). That is why few if any are converted from one faith to another on the basis of a killer apologetic argument. The problem with religious debate is that assumptions are presented as facts.

(3) Generally people convert from faith ‘A’ to faith ‘B’ (neglecting impulsive conversions) because (a) somehow faith ‘B’ speaks to their soul in a way that faith ‘A’ does not or (b) they perceive faith ‘B’ spiritually to be superior.

Speaking to (3), I am currently quite content in my own faith that I don’t have any motivation to belong to another faith unless I somehow became convinced through observing faith ‘B’ in action through the lifestyles of those that practice this faith that faith ‘B’ is superior. From observing Catholics in action, I do not perceive their faith to be superior to mine.

“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine of Hippo, Against the Letter of Mani, 397 A.D…

:bowdown:

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I have heard over and over again how people here were going to become Catholic but a priest said this, or a priest said that, or someone here said something I didn’t like, or I don’t like this person who is Catholic, therefore I won’t become one, I don’t care for the Mass…etc…there are countless invalid excuses for not wanting to become a Catholic.

What about becoming a Catholic because CHRIST STARTED THE CATHOLIC CHURCH? How about that reason? There will be people here finding fault with this statement as well, but to reject Christ’s one true church because of something someone said is totally absurd and a terrible excuse for not wanting to be with Jesus Christ and His Roman Catholic church.

Have you heard this one:

I have learned what catholocism teaches and compared against what the bible teaches and it doesnt add up
Plain and simple for me. No emotional anything involved.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Have you heard this one:

I have learned what catholocism teaches and compared against what the bible teaches and it doesnt add up
Plain and simple for me. No emotional anything involved.

Learned from whom?

“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine of Hippo, Against the Letter of Mani, 397 A.D…

 

[guanophore]

I have heard over and over again how people here were going to become Catholic but a priest said this, or a priest said that, or someone here said something I didn’t like, or I don’t like this person who is Catholic, therefore I won’t become one, I don’t care for the Mass…etc…there are countless invalid excuses for not wanting to become a Catholic.

What about becoming a Catholic because CHRIST STARTED THE CATHOLIC CHURCH? How about that reason? There will be people here finding fault with this statement as well, but to reject Christ’s one true church because of something someone said is totally absurd and a terrible excuse for not wanting to be with Jesus Christ and His Roman Catholic church.

I think this is the best reason, of course. But it cannot be denied that Catholics, or those claiming to be Catholics that really are not, are a poor witness to Christ and His Church. I am listenening to Raymond Arroyo (sp?) on the World Over Live right now, an they are discussion a number of prominent "so-called’ Catholic politicians that are pro-abortion and chose to take communion. Such actions on the part of persons calling themselves Catholic demean the message of the gospel, and the Church.

I think that is one reason Jesus says that a person who leads others astray (specifically children) would be better off to have a millstone tied around his neck and thrown into the sea.

I think our focus needs to be upon ourselves, and our own walk. If we are righteous examples of the way of Christ, people will be falling over themselves to get into the Church.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Learned from whom?

“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine of Hippo, Against the Letter of Mani, 397 A.D…

From God himself–the bible. When I was saved 12 years ago–God opened my eyes to the gospel message and I believed. The message is not difficult to understand. Especially when you hae the Holy Spirit guiding you and protecting you. I dont find it too difficult.
Granted I certainly dont know everything, but Im learning. Part of this process of learning and discerning was studying catholocism. I knew nothing of catholocism(except they had a pope)before I started. Didnt know what they believed except they did believe in the trinity and Christ.

So I came to the table with the thought we all believed the same stuff.
As I started to learn what catholocism teaches–I cant tell you how many times my mouth fell open in shock and disbelief

I was so taken back I couldnt believe. So I started to check what they were teaching against what the bible said and I prayed for the HS to show me the truth(catholic or not–believe it or not I was open to the CC teachings ) The Holy Spirit continually led me away from what the CC is teaching:shrug:

 

[wisdomseeker]

From God himself–the bible. When I was saved 12 years ago–God opened my eyes to the gospel message and I believed. The message is not difficult to understand. Especially when you hae the Holy Spirit guiding you and protecting you. I dont find it too difficult.
Granted I certainly dont know everything, but Im learning. Part of this process of learning and discerning was studying catholocism. I knew nothing of catholocism(except they had a pope)before I started. Didnt know what they believed except they did believe in the trinity and Christ.

So I came to the table with the thought we all believed the same stuff.
As I started to learn what catholocism teaches–I cant tell you how many times my mouth fell open in shock and disbelief

I was so taken back I couldnt believe. So I started to check what they were teaching against what the bible said and I prayed for the HS to show me the truth(catholic or not–believe it or not I was open to the CC teachings ) The Holy Spirit continually led me away from what the CC is teaching:shrug:

you mean a Book speaks ?

:bowdown2:

“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine of Hippo, Against the Letter of Mani, 397 A.D…

 

[guanophore]

"The Church " is the pillar of truth. A christian church Where do you get Only Catholics are Christians out of that?

Good questions, thanks for posting. Jesus only started One Church.

Why because Jesus gave peter the keys to the kingdome ? Then the Roman Catholic Church says oh by the way our first Pope was named Peter ?

“Pope” is a Latin word that did not come along until centuries later, when the dominant language of the West became Latin. Prior to that, the dominant language was Greek. Peter was called “Kepha” or Cephas, which is the name given to him by Jesus. Pope just means “papa”.

Where is  a pope first mentioned in Scripture? "

There are many references in the NT about the primacy of Peter among the Apostles. These can be found on other threads. If you need me to find them for you, let me know. I don’t want to get this thread too far off topic.

Oh it is not in the bible it is tradtion" Well when does tradition start and when does a practice stop being a practice and start being tradition. How do you then define vatican II and the changes made were those rituals and practices not tradition at the Time?  We  can all of a sudden  say Mass in the Common language in the mid 1960's But If  a priest says mass in German in the 1500s he is a heritic. So where is the tradition?

I see that you are confused about the difference between Sacred Tradition (the Word of God) and tradtion with a small “t” which is about customs, disciplines, practices, etc. Catholics believe that there has been one, complete, public, Divine Deposit of Faith. This Deposit is in two forms, Sacred Scripture, and Sacred Tradition. So, to answer your question, Sacred Tradition comes from God, and other practices come from people.

 

[guanophore]

Am participating in this thread against my better judgement. … unless I somehow became convinced through observing faith ‘B’ in action through the lifestyles of those that practice this faith that faith ‘B’ is superior. From observing Catholics in action, I do not perceive their faith to be superior to mine.

Thanks for taking a risk!

I agree that true evangelism is one of attraction and not promotion. If we are truly living our faith, people would flock to the Church. I am curuous what you have observed that disuades you. What would you expect to see different, that might be more compelling?

 

[guanophore]

When Jesus handed the keys to Peter and told him to start his churchJesus’s words were “Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, whatever you loose on earth, will be loosed in heaven”.
That is the papacy. Makes sense to me. I think you really ought to study your history instead of giving non-factual statements.

Has it occurred to you that others interpret the “facts” differently than you? If you will look at the post to which you are responding, it is easy to see that oncecatholic did not make any “non-factual statements”. On the contrary, the post was full of QUESTIONS!!! Legitimate ones, no less. This is another example of an unfounded accusation leveled by you against another member.

Where do you get the papacy out of those very words ? As you claim I am an ignorant fool so show me oh Righteousone.

Please don’t be put off by righteousone. She is obviously not reading the posts very thoruoughly. The one above this, she is correcting a Catholic who believes that same thing she does, as if he were a Protestant.

I think the papacy issues should go to one of the papacy threads. Have you read any of them? Would you be willing to transfer this conversation to prevent derailing the thread? The papacy is an office that developed over many centuries, and all we can see of it in the NT is the tiny mustard seed.

I’ve never even used those words “ignorant fool”, but it is you that say you are. Not I.

Your tone comes through loud and clear.