Everyone Has An Excuse For Not Wanting To Become A Catholic.

[wisdomseeker]

If you finished reading the quote (not sure where it is from) you can see that every effort is made NOT to do this!

Again, it is crucial to remember that the church did not determine the canon. No early church council decided on the canon. It was God, and God alone, who determined which books belonged in the Bible. It was simply a matter of God convincing His followers of what He had already decided upon. The human process of collecting the books of the Bible was flawed, but God, in His sovereignty, despite our ignorance and stubbornness, brought the early church to the recognition of the books He had inspired.

I apologize I am not sure where this is taken from, but it seems clear that it is “crucial” that the actual persons and council involved must not get any participation in th ematter, other than ignorance and stubbornness

I think this is because the reader must reject the authority of the Church to do this.

yes i noticed that. that is why i ask her to name these insignificant men who took part on the Canon of SS.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

ABSOLUTELY!! The bible is the living breathing word of God that isnt just a book of words but a book that(by reading through the eys of the Holy Spirit)can change lives.
I dont mean it speaks audibly but you have never found the word of God speak to you in some area of your life?
You know those moments when you are searching the scriptures and a verse or passage just jumps out at you and you say THATS IT THATS THE ANSWER IM LOOKING FOR!!!

If you havent a clue what Im talking about then I will pray that God shows this awesome experience through His written word to us.

**This does happen - but it’s difficult if not impossible to “get across” to someone who’s not experienced this. **​

**The Bible does speak though - sometimes, something will leap out & grab you by the throat; which is no guarantee that it will be welcome It is a living book - “alive and active”, in the words of Hebrews 4.12. **

 

[guanophore]

Guanaphore, give it a break, will you? you are ALWAYS arguing with me…a Catholic you call yourself, so stop always arguing.

Actually, I generally disregard your posts as shallow and prejudicial, but this thread and the imposter thread have made me realize that I should not do that. Greater harm is being done by my silence. I am just offering you some feedback, and some alternative points of view. What is your understanding of “argue”?Do you believe that everyone who disagrees with you is “arguing”? Have you ever agreed to disagree with anyone?

May I suggest that you visit the forum rules?

You may see, as many of us have, that your conduct has been in violation of many of them. If you have no tolerance for arguement, perhaps you might consider confining yourself to the Catholic Living or the Prayer Intentions fora?

 

[GregoryPalamas]

If I believed the CC was started by Christ, I would be Catholic…but I don’t…I do not find the evidence compelling at all…I see history and a growth of an emerging organization that “claims” to be what I do not find any evidence in those claims.

I have been to mass, but do not find it “speaks to my condition”…I don’t need to make up “invalid” reasons to not be Catholic…I have very valid reasons…I simply do not believe it’s claims…but for those who do IF it answers the questions of their lives and brings them closer to God…IF being Catholic brings them closer to their neighbor and causes them to be kind, considerate of others, show mercy, compassion, seek justice for those who cannot speak for themselves…live according to the two greatest commandments…great!!! My deepest longings and needs have been answered elsewhere.

But isn’t that like saying I want my own way and by God the Catholic Church won’t let me have all my own way. Therefore, I’m not joining?

CDL

 

[GregoryPalamas]

As I said, your “evidence” is not compelling for me. However IF it is for you I’m pleased you have found a faith tradition which answers your needs. As I said before, I don’t have to “make up invalid” reasons for not being Catholic…my reasons are valid enough for me…I have found a faith that “speaks to my condition” as no other tradition has.

How is this different that saying “There is no truth. I have a right to make up my own truth.”?

CDL

 

[Truthstalker]

etc.

Good posting, guanophore. I admire your attempt.

People who start threads attacking other posters as imposters or excuse-makers and then complain when fault is found with their methods need loving correction. Few have the courage, conviction or the patience for this work. It may not pay off. But it would be worth it if it did.

Keep it up. On every post she makes, on every thread she starts.

It’s a shame more people are not helping her see the truth. We reap what we sow.

 

[Truthstalker]

But isn’t that like saying I want my own way and by God the Catholic Church won’t let me have all my own way. Therefore, I’m not joining?

CDL

Do you think there is room for genuine doubt as to the truth of the Church’s claims? That it is not simply a matter of rebellion, but of integrity to one’s beliefs? That someone could feel deeply convicted of sin by simply attending Mass? Or going to a church with statues?

 

[SIA]

I have heard over and over again how people here were going to become Catholic but a priest said this, or a priest said that, or someone here said something I didn’t like, or I don’t like this person who is Catholic, therefore I won’t become one, I don’t care for the Mass…etc…there are countless invalid excuses for not wanting to become a Catholic.

What about becoming a Catholic because CHRIST STARTED THE CATHOLIC CHURCH? How about that reason? There will be people here finding fault with this statement as well, but to reject Christ’s one true church because of something someone said is totally absurd and a terrible excuse for not wanting to be with Jesus Christ and His Roman Catholic church.

Christ started the church of the earliest Christians but it certainly was not the RCC.

 

[lucy212]

I am interested in knowing about your ‘valid’ reasons for not wanting to be Catholic, after all your extensive research. What faith ‘speaks’ to your condition if not the church from Jesus?

The fact that you feel you have to put quotes around valid, is like telling a person…you can tell me your reasons, but I have already judged them…and I know what you think is wrong.
A person may never come any closer when they are objectified like this and treated as not even worth the time to to heard, to be understood…Tolkien, in one of the most beautiful passages of Lord of the Rings demonstrates the power of being heard and understood (no one’s belief is being asked to be compromised, no sin in treating a person with a little dignity) .
What was accomplished was a heart was opened and in the long run, redeemed and healed…read the section about Gimli and Galadriel.
(I know I am probably wasting my breath)

True, it’s not the CCC,- but it’s a book created from the Catholic ethos, being both incarnational and sacramental;and teaches more about being truly human (as Christ, through his incarnation showed us and leads us to what God intented for us to be.
The journey a person needs to make to get from point A to point B can’t be made by walking through the pages of the CCC, but walking daily with Christ (and that’s where the Church, the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church enters…it is a means, not an end).

I get the feeling the only reason that non-catholics are asked questions or for clarifications, is so you can plan your next move, and really could care less about their answer, or anything about the person speaking except for one thing–the only value their words have is in relation to what section of the Catholic Doctrine you are going rain down.

You can’t bend and force people to embrace the Truth;** your words, doctrine, dogmas may be correct, but they are not the Way, Truth and Life…That belongs to Christ…Do not point to "Catholic Doctrine and tell me that is Christ…It is insulting… it turns Truth on its head and makes it a lie.
I would see Christ…Please. I long for it.**

Righteousone,
Forgive me if my words seem harsh, I do not direct them to you personally, but to the way that proclaiming the Gospel has turned into some bad version of a mean high schoolish debate this forum seems as of late.
It’s more about points and humiliating others, objectifying humans into things to mold into our own image.(even though we are positive it’s God’s Image)

Ban me if you wish, but if this is what the Church really looks like, I am not sure I would be have the heart to keep following the longing, the seeking to find that something to fill that emptyness after the first several verbal “smack downs”.

***If everyone has an excuse for not wanting to become Catholic, ***maybe our own behavior as Catholic Christians bears a bit of the responsibility. And I include my own failure to live out the Gospel at the top of the list.

 

[guanophore]

Christ started the church of the earliest Christians but it certainly was not the RCC.

This is true, as it was several centuries before the Roman Rite developed. The Eastern Rites developed first, however, it was definitely Catholic.

 

[mozart-250]

You may see, as many of us have, that your conduct has been in violation of many of them. If you have no tolerance for arguement, perhaps you might consider confining yourself to the Catholic Living or the Prayer Intentions fora?

I see that the OP account is “under review” and that the “imposter” thread has magically disappeared.

Moderators…

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Can you name those men who took part on the council to determine the Canon of Sacred Scriptures?

**“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine of Hippo, Against the Letter of Mani, 397 A.D… **

Hi,
Athanasius of Alexandria(A.D. 367 gave us the earliest list of the NT books that is exactly the same as we have today.

Shortly after Athanasius circulated his list, Jerome and Augustine followed suit.

**Polycarp(**A.D. 115) and Clement of Alexandria(A.D. 200) and other ECF refer to the OT and NT books with the phrase “as it is said in these scriptures”

Justin Martyr(A.D.100-165),He adds in his dialogue with Trypho(pgs. 49, 103, 105,107) the formula “It is written” when he quotes from the gospels. Both he and trypho must have known to what “It is written” referred , and that this introduction designated that the scripture is inspired.

**Irenaeus(**A.D. 180) He became Bishop of Gaul in in A.D.180. His writings attest to the canonical recognition of the fourfold Gospel and Acts,Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians,Eph.,Phil.,Col., 1 and 2 Thess., 1 and 2 Timothy, and Titus, 1 Peter, 1 John and Revelations.

**Ignatius(**A.D. 50–115) wrote, “I do not wish to command you as Peter and Paul; they were apostles.”

Church councils–At the Synod of Hippo in A.D. 393–listed the 27 books of the NT, it did not confer upon them any authority which they did not already posess, but simply recorded their previously established canonicity. This ruling was re-promulgated 4 years later by the Third Synod of Carthage.

Since that time there have been no serious questioning of the 27 books by RCC, Prots, or EO.

As you can see the NT scripture has been circulated since the time they were written. They were widely accepted. The councils simply recognized it.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

]## **This does happen - but it’s difficult if not impossible to “get across” to someone who’s not experienced this. **

Yes I agree. I would not have understood either before I was saved. All my christian friends who are saved know exactly what Im speaking of as do you:thumbsup:

The Bible does speak though - sometimes, something will leap out & grab you by the throat; which is no guarantee that it will be welcome It is a living book - “alive and active”, in the words of Hebrews 4.12.

So true So true Im being choked right now on a certain issue and I feel the pain.I want to obey but man is it hard. I think of Paul’s writings in Romans about struggling with sin. We call it the doobey do’s because of how oftend he says do tongue twister

 

[Madaglan]

Originally Posted by ALLFORHIM:

Hi,
Athanasius of Alexandria(A.D. 367 gave us the earliest list of the NT books that is exactly the same as we have today.

Shortly after Athanasius circulated his list, Jerome and Augustine followed suit.

**Polycarp(**A.D. 115) and Clement of Alexandria(A.D. 200) and other ECF refer to the OT and NT books with the phrase “as it is said in these scriptures”

Justin Martyr(A.D.100-165),He adds in his dialogue with Trypho(pgs. 49, 103, 105,107) the formula “It is written” when he quotes from the gospels. Both he and trypho must have known to what “It is written” referred , and that this introduction designated that the scripture is inspired.

**Irenaeus(**A.D. 180) He became Bishop of Gaul in in A.D.180. His writings attest to the canonical recognition of the fourfold Gospel and Acts,Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians,Eph.,Phil.,Col., 1 and 2 Thess., 1 and 2 Timothy, and Titus, 1 Peter, 1 John and Revelations.

**Ignatius(**A.D. 50–115) wrote, “I do not wish to command you as Peter and Paul; they were apostles.”

Church councils–At the Synod of Hippo in A.D. 393–listed the 27 books of the NT, it did not confer upon them any authority which they did not already posess, but simply recorded their previously established canonicity. This ruling was re-promulgated 4 years later by the Third Synod of Carthage.

Since that time there have been no serious questioning of the 27 books by RCC, Prots, or EO.

As you can see the NT scripture has been circulated since the time they were written. They were widely accepted. The councils simply recognized it.

---

The four gospels and the “genuine” letters of Paul were very early and widely recognized. Some books that were disputed: Hebrews, 2 Peter, and Revelation.

There were several other works that early on were read in the churches and considered by some to be inspired: letters of Ignatius of Antioch and the Shepherd of Hermas, for example. However, these did not make it into the canon, although they were still highly regarded.

 

[Madaglan]

Originally Posted by ALLFORHIM:
Quote:
]## **This does happen - but it’s difficult if not impossible to “get across” to someone who’s not experienced this. **
Yes I agree. I would not have understood either before I was saved. All my christian friends who are saved know exactly what Im speaking of as do you:thumbsup:

The Scriptures speak best when in the Liturgy.

 

[guanophore]

I see that the OP account is “under review” and that the “imposter” thread has magically disappeared.

Moderators…

There is another thread on “are the Jews sinning” that has disappeared also. Perhaps those of us in this thread that are trying to break through the think wall of denial will not be successful, but at least further negativity will not be spread?

Several people on this thread pointed out that people have genuine difficulties for becoming Catholic. As I was reading them, I was listening to a story on EWTN about a Protestant who was just looking for a quiet place to pray, and the nun allowed him the chapel. He could not stand the “idols” (crucifix and statue of Mary) so he went over and sat in a small corner with a little box and a candle. He did this every day for a long time, and heard Jesus speak to him personally. He later told the priest that he was just hiding from the “idols” and positioned himself where he would not have to look at him. The next year, he became Catholic.

 

[Madaglan]

Originally Posted by guanophore:

Several people on this thread pointed out that people have genuine difficulties for becoming Catholic. As I was reading them, I was listening to a story on EWTN about a Protestant who was just looking for a quiet place to pray, and the nun allowed him the chapel. He could not stand the “idols” (crucifix and statue of Mary) so he went over and sat in a small corner with a little box and a candle. He did this every day for a long time, and heard Jesus speak to him personally. He later told the priest that he was just hiding from the “idols” and positioned himself where he would not have to look at him. The next year, he became Catholic.

Was it a Eucharistic Adoration Chapel?

 

[guanophore]

Was it a Eucharistic Adoration Chapel?

It was radio, but I gathered from the description that it was a small nook to the side of the altar with a pillar next to it. The man sat with the pillar between himself and the “idols”, and that put him squarely in front of the Tabernacle. He did not know what it was.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Hi,
Athanasius of Alexandria(A.D. 367 gave us the earliest list of the NT books that is exactly the same as we have today.

Shortly after Athanasius circulated his list, Jerome and Augustine followed suit.

**Polycarp(**A.D. 115) and Clement of Alexandria(A.D. 200) and other ECF refer to the OT and NT books with the phrase “as it is said in these scriptures”

Justin Martyr(A.D.100-165),He adds in his dialogue with Trypho(pgs. 49, 103, 105,107) the formula “It is written” when he quotes from the gospels. Both he and trypho must have known to what “It is written” referred , and that this introduction designated that the scripture is inspired.

**Irenaeus(**A.D. 180) He became Bishop of Gaul in in A.D.180. His writings attest to the canonical recognition of the fourfold Gospel and Acts,Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians,Eph.,Phil.,Col., 1 and 2 Thess., 1 and 2 Timothy, and Titus, 1 Peter, 1 John and Revelations.

**Ignatius(**A.D. 50–115) wrote, “I do not wish to command you as Peter and Paul; they were apostles.”

Church councils–At the Synod of Hippo in A.D. 393–listed the 27 books of the NT, it did not confer upon them any authority which they did not already posess, but simply recorded their previously established canonicity. This ruling was re-promulgated 4 years later by the Third Synod of Carthage.

Since that time there have been no serious questioning of the 27 books by RCC, Prots, or EO.

As you can see the NT scripture has been circulated since the time they were written. They were widely accepted. The councils simply recognized it.

“ROME HAD SPOKEN, THE ISSUE WAS SETTLED.”

“THE CHURCH RECOGNIZED ITS IMAGE IN THE INSPIRED BOOKS OF THE BIBLE. THAT IS HOW IT DETERMINED THE CANON OF SCRIPTURE.” Fr. Ken Baker

***“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D… ***

 

[wisdomseeker]

This reminds me of a pastor in Brasil who kicked the statue of a saint. He is now catholic and gives his witness around the country. after kicking the statue his foot got an infection that would not heal. until one day in the hospital being treated for this infection,he thought about what he had done and repented from it. suddenly he begun to receive a visited from a nun who would care for his feet. he finally was healed. when leaving the hospital he asked for the nun so he could say thanks. but no nun had been in this hospital, no one had seen any nun coming into this hospital. he was shocked and amazed and he came into the CC. he is now a devout catholic.



**“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D… **